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**imatree** · July 5, 2007, 01:26 PM

NEVER OUT OF THE WOODS........

And so you shall be free again, Starlight. You'll once again be free because you will free yourself. You did it before and you'll do it again.

Can you really say that those ten years were in vain? What of all the days nights weeks months mornings weekends meals moment of sharing and love and life for which you were actually PRESENT because you were sober. TEN YEARS of sober moments. I would give the past 20 years of my drinking life in exchange for 10 sober years.

In answer to your question... I fully expect that when I get to being full-time AF, which is my goal, and I get closer everyday, that I will have to stay there for the rest of my days.

**Jacy** · July 5, 2007, 01:38 PM

NEVER OUT OF THE WOODS........

I feel the same way as imatree. You should be proud of yourself to have the 10 years AF. I have so far only made it a little over a week AT . I have been drinking for about 13 years now and I am just now finding it a problem and want it to stop to Starlight.

I too know that I am alcoholic that whenever I have one drink I want more and more until I am drunk. Since I have been able to admit I have put more effort into it but still the problems in life sometimes creep up and I find myself drunk an pathetic all over again. All I can do is keep trying hopefully I get there yet because I know I want to.

Take care Starlight I know how you are feeling.

**Breez** · July 5, 2007, 01:40 PM

NEVER OUT OF THE WOODS........

Hi Star-

Your 10 yrs of sobriety were not in vain-it is a reminder of how strong you were and can be again. The bigger the mistake the bigger the lesson to be learned.

Don't think of abstinence as a lifelong commitment-that is such a heavy endeavor. Think of it instead as a daily commitment.

Star-those 10 yrs showed you can shine & you will once again. Never give up.

**IAD** · July 5, 2007, 01:41 PM

NEVER OUT OF THE WOODS........

I can never say that I'm out of the woods ! The woods are everywhere ! always keep vegilant ! IAD!

**Beaches** · July 5, 2007, 02:00 PM

NEVER OUT OF THE WOODS........

Starlight,
I have really enjoyed reading your journey and how you have come to each decision and shared it with all of us. I thank you for that because you are helping us all learn.

10 years AF is something to be very proud of and something to look back at and remember how good it was and where you want to be again.

I think you are quite remarkable, keep it up!

**adagirl** · July 5, 2007, 04:03 PM

NEVER OUT OF THE WOODS........

I think it is Dr. Phil who says that weight problems are not cured, but managed. I totally agree w/this when it comes to weight. I have come to terms w/the fact that I will always have to manage my weight. There is never gonna come a day when I wake up and magically my metabolism has completely changed so that I can eat whatever I want and never have to work at it. And, now that I have accepted that I have an alcohol problem, I see it the same way. There is never gonna come a day when I can just drink whatever I want, whenever, however much without it becomming a problem. I will always have to manage it. But, that doesn't mean that it has to be miserable either. I just figure everyone has their issues, right, and these are two of mine.

**satori** · July 5, 2007, 05:19 PM

NEVER OUT OF THE WOODS........

Star,

I am now totally fed up!

I kind of thought when I started out here that the longer I went without drinking to excess, the easier it would become.

Now you tell us that after ten years of abstinance - you are not really any better off - your brain still is wired the same.

Hmmm.....I have been slowly coming to suspect that this would be the case!

I guess that to be really free of this - the ONLY way is ABS.

I still don't want to do that!
I guess I am a true addict!:upset:

Satori
xxx

**psychmommy** · July 5, 2007, 06:36 PM

NEVER OUT OF THE WOODS........

Starlight. . . My initial answer to your question was "No, of course I don't think there's a single cure." ALthough my behavior says differently. It's as if I'm always waiting for the perfect day/time/whatever to stop drinking. I also can relate in that I have gone years without alcohol. Didn't even miss it at times. But each time I go back to drinking, I get more and more lost in it.

Thanks for making me think about this in a different way. I can't waste time waiting for the cure to come upon me. I need to make a plan and take action.

**morrison** · July 5, 2007, 06:55 PM

NEVER OUT OF THE WOODS........

I often wondered what would happen if the doctor told me "one more sip, and you're dead." If he told me that, and could give me definitive proof of the statement. I think that may be the only "cure." Ironically, it's true, the only difference is the size of that sip. Why do we justify killing ourselves slowly, as opposed to quickly? The answer is, we want to feel good NOW. Screw tomorrow or the future, lets feel good now. So, how can you cure the basic human instinct to feel good now? I don't know. God, I wish I knew. If I find out, I will come on here and let you all know right away. I was so desperate once, I was applying for danger jobs, just to get to a place where I would get jailed or killed for drinking.

For those who don't know, a danger job is working in a war zone like Iraq or Afghanistan.

**Lucy Van Pelt** · July 5, 2007, 07:16 PM

NEVER OUT OF THE WOODS........

Starlight

Hey, I am absolutly no expert, but from what i gleam, from those who have made it is this:

somehow, you learn to live day by day

you take life a moment at a time

you learn to appreciate the moments of sobriety that are great..and recall them, at the moments that are so tough (they won't always be)

you breathe

you pray (hey, I can't do this one)

you keep going..and somehow, sometime, it DOES get better... OK...I am the cheerleader form the sidelines...

I suggest...pm'ing, Kate, hmmm, Gabby, gosh there are others...I also sugest you spend some time on the abs board. Funny coming from someone who is so unsuccessful, but I am better at advice than at my own help sometimes.. so there is my suggestions.

Best of luck

Beth

**nancy** · July 5, 2007, 08:03 PM

NEVER OUT OF THE WOODS........

I am with Adagirl on this one. For me it is about substances, including food, alcohol, caffeine. I try to slow myself down with these things and it takes a herculean effort sometimes.

I think I equate substances with a soothing effect. That needs to change.

However, unlike food, you don't have to have a relationship with alcohol, your body does not need it. So the question we have to ask ourselves is whether all that effort into moderating and changing the normal way we deal with something is worth it. And then to achieve this and to know that we are, to quote a post by Morrison, "tapdancing on a landmine".

is there a cure? I don't think that answer is available yet. Safest thing is abstinence but that is also hard to achieve it seems.

**sujul** · July 5, 2007, 10:21 PM

NEVER OUT OF THE WOODS........

I've shared bits and pieces of this elsewhere but this seems like a place where it might be helpful if I retell some of my story--and why I have now been abs for almost 15 mos....

Like Starlight I was sober for a long period of time (1985-1996); I got a Masters in Rehab Counseling and helped a lot of people stay sober...when I got burned out because of a combination of the Crack and AIDS epidemics here in NYC, I went back to a corporate job that entailed a lot of travel--I relapsed on a plane when the hostess asked me if I wanted a drink--out of the blue, completely unplanned, I said I'd like a bloody mary--and I drank for 10 more years--until April 2006 when I checked myself into rehab...

By the end of that period I was no longer working (although I had begun another Master's degree somewhere along the line--and I was already 5 yrs into a 3yr program) and I was drinking literally around the clock--ususally 2-3 bottles of wine but up to 4 bottles(remember I drank 24/7), and sometimes I added vodka or rum or whatever....there were also drugs: speed, benzos, antidepressants, pot..... I was lying to the people who love me--no one really knew how much I was drinking because my tolerance was so high I didn't actually appear drunk...but I was never, ever sober. I was frequently suicidal...I often stayed in bed all day and only got up to get more to drink--I would dash around before my partner came home and pretend I had been out doing the stuff I was supposed to...I rarely showed up for social events--but I was so incredibly creative I came up with excuses that people believed...it was so easy to hide all this, but I was dying inside. I couldn't sleep through the night without getting up for a slug of something, I would have more in the morning...sometimes I could barely wait for the liquor store to open at 9AM...sometimes I would throw up with the first gulp of wine in the AM, but I kept pouring it down....Did I mention I was suicidal? I woke up drenched in swear, terrified of another day, I panicked whenever I thought of my future. I wondered how I would ever get through the years I had left. I got gained 60 lbs of bloat and looked worse and worse...I blamed it on meds...and I would think of killing myself all the time, it was always in the back of my mind....I just couldn't bring myself to hurt my family that way...

I don't know how it happened but one morning I was given a moment of clarity and really saw what I had become...and I was more terrified than I had ever been before...I knew that I had finally reached the end of the road...somehow I managed to get online (bottle of wine within reach) and found a rehab, arranged to go and told my family and friends what I needed to do...I checked in on Good Friday, 2006.

I have posted about my experiences of rehab elsewhere but what I really wanted to share here is that I think you KNOW when you HAVE to give it up...there is no more possibility of mods, no more possibility of deluding yourself that it's really all going to be okay--any fantasy or illusion is stripped away, the fuzzy edges are gone, and you find yourself in some stark moment of truth-there are only two choices: life or death. Thank God, I chose life.

To everyone here--my heart goes out to you. This is a horrendous disease and I applaud all of you for struggling to find a way out. If any bit of my experience can save even one of you from having to get to the place I found myself 15 mos ago, this rambling account of my nightmare will have been worth it.

:l :l :l :l

**julie001** · July 5, 2007, 11:32 PM

NEVER OUT OF THE WOODS........

Sujul,

Wow. I am so impressed that you were able to turn it around a second time. I would imagine that there are tons of drinkers out there who have gotten a handle on their problems once and then lost it again (and possibly again and again). Your story is an excellent reminder of the fact that we (problem drinkers) need to seek out help through rehab, counseling, doctor's care, or places like MWO where we can talk honestly about our issues. Most importantly your story reminded me that we need to remain vigilant in our struggle. Good luck.

Julie

**morrison** · July 5, 2007, 11:51 PM

NEVER OUT OF THE WOODS........

sujul. Your story is inspiring. You've been through a lot, I have to say. I'm very impressed by how well you write. We always speak of how amazing the body is, and it will heal if you give it a chance. But, we don't talk about the power of our minds. You write so eloquently, I would never have guessed you were a chronic alcoholic and drug addict for as long as you were. I think people need to read your story. If you can do it, I think most people can. I've always thought of suicide too. Even was caught one early morning, behind the wheel of my car, with a vacuum cleaner hose in the exhaust, stuck through the window. A neighbor was getting up for work, it was really early, like 4AM. Maybe God was looking out for me. The neighbor called the police, and they put me in the loony bin for a bit, after I got out of the hospital. I was so angry. I'm glad now that I'm alive. I guess that may have been my most selfish act ever. I'm glad you decided to stick around. You are here for a reason.

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