Moderation? or harm reduction?

[nancy]

Just wanted to throw something out there for all of you.

I read the story that MD Biker reposted about Audrey Kishline, founder of Moderation Management. She wound up killing two people while driving in a blackout. The story really affected me deeply.

I gave some thought to the ethics of the organization she founded, suggesting problem drinkers can control their intake. I know she had left MM and gone to AA...

Still, her experience is one we should all be aware of and consider.

Supposedly,moderation is for those who are not true "alcoholics", whatever that is.

My view is that harm reduction is a better term for many of us here.

Just something to be aware of. Sometimes the name does matter.

I think it is an important distinction.
I am open-minded and interested in hearing thoughts on this. It's not that I know much about harm reduction but the term sounds more apt.

[beatle]

Moderation? or harm reduction?

I agree with you Nancy. I think there are some who can moderate successfully and thereby reduce the harm to their body. That's great, but it still should be recognised for what it is. (If they are very very very moderate, as in a glass or two of wine a week, they may be removing all additional harm, but very few get that far, or even want to get that far, in their moderation.) Nonetheless, harm reduction is better than no reduction.

Also, another related point is that many people who drink regularly but can control their drinking, are still harming their body. They often will look at us who have to stay completely away from alcohol and think they are lucky that they don't have our problem, even as they continue to do significant harm to their bodies.

[Mackeral]

Moderation? or harm reduction?

In my way of thinking, if drink is causing you not to lead a normal life, no matter how much you drink. then it is a problem, no matter what level of dependency you have..
Moderation or harm reduction(which i like btw)for me is a stepping stone to abstinance, but i do beleive some people can and are using it good effect..At the end of the day, we are all different..

[lucky 2.0]

Moderation? or harm reduction?

I agree that Harm Reduction is very important in the land of mods. I have had it discribed it is like giving clean needles to the addicts on the streets. They are going to shoot up anyway so they might as well be safer doing it. And the same goes for giving condoms to those gay and straight for a variety of reasons. HR resonates with me. I am a black and white thinker usually and HR falls into the gray world but still makes good sense.

[adagirl]

Moderation? or harm reduction?

I think anyone who in inclined to drink too much (whether you call them an alcoholic abuser, alcoholic, problem drinker, heavy drinker, etc.) is a potential threat to society because there is the potential to overdrink and not use good judgement at any point. And, moderation or abstinance does not necessarily fix the problem. Someone who moderates may screw up and drink too much and then do something that is dangerous to society. Someone who abstains may screw up and go on a binge and also do something that is dangerous to society.

I think the best we can do is just to try as much as possible to climb out of our denial and find the way out that will best serve ourselves as individuals and society. For me, I have found in the past that when I go AF for awhile, then I tend to 'wind myself up' for a big binge. Kinda like w/dieting, if I say to myself that I will never eat chocolate again, then I obsess over it and then when I finally cave, I'd eat a whole box. For me, I feel like its better to moderate and have a few drinks once in awhile so it doesn't become something that is 'forbidden' (making it even more enticing in a weird way). But, I'm not sure how/if I will be able to moderate like I am right now without the Naltrexone. I may have to always take this drug in order for this to work for me. Or, I've read that you can also take Naltrexone just when you plan to drink (which for me is only about once/week).

Of course, to mod you also have to COMPLETELY change your relationship w/alcohol. I've heard others describe it this way and its the same for me... I don't really think of myself as someone who is moding all the time. I consider myself AF w/a mod day once/week. I could not mod every day or even most days. I know it would be too much and I'd slip back into old habits.

On MM vs. Harm Reduction, I looked into both those approaches before finding MWO. I think Harm Reduction is an excellent first step. It takes away the worst of what alcohol is doing to you. And, for drunk drivers, it makes you stop and attack that issue first which I think is great because that is really the worst impact on society. The big risk I see in both of these approaches, though, is that I'm not sure if they are possible (for true problem drinkers) unless you are on medication (and one that is working for you). I tried to moderate my drinking so many times before I found MWO and nothing worked. And, I didn't think I'd be able to go AF either. It just all seemed so miserable and impossible. I hate to put it this way because I know a lot of people don't believe in a 'magic pill', but the Naltrexone has really made this easy for me (relatively - when I compare to how it was when I would try to ABS or MOD before). Not saying I don't have issues/challenges, but it is soooo much easier w/this medication.

Oh, and I know I am writing a book here, but another thing I have learned in my time here is that I really think there are big differences in alcoholics. There are different types and different places on the continuum. I definitely do not think there is any one-size-fits-all solution. In fact, the drug I am on simply does not work at all for some people. But, for me, it works so well. I think its because of the 'type' of alcoholic that I am (my type of chemistry and how my body processes alcohol). I hope there is more research in the future on the different types of alcoholics and how to identify/treat each type best. Right now, most of the world sees alcoholics all in one light and its really doing us a dis-service in our treatment.

[kitkatsue]

Moderation? or harm reduction?

Hello all,

adagirl, I agree we are all different. AF works for me now at the place I am in my life.
But I don't tell myself I can never have something to drink as I believe it would make things harder. And speaking of chocolate I think I am going to need a mocha this morning!

kitkat

[YoungAtHeart]

Moderation? or harm reduction?

That is a very thoughtful response, Adagirl. People who don't have drinking problems don't need MM, because they are naturally moderate in their drinking. I think that the term "harm reduction" is probably more honest, though, because people who are truly moderate drinkers don't need help to moderate their drinking.

I thank God for the help of MWO and the medications that are helping me to be abstinent right now. I wasn't even able to moderate with topa. I quickly learned to "drink over" the effects of the topamax. At this point what works for me is abstinence, even though it is hard sometimes.

[eustacia]

Moderation? or harm reduction?

Very well put, Adagirl. It is a disservice to lump problem drinkers together. I have a hard enough time reconciling the drink pounding 20-something me with the me who was already a fairly moderate drinker when I began participating on this board about a year ago.

I think that what might be of universal importance. whether one identifies as a problem drinker or not is being mindful of what one drinks. For instance, I went off the program July 1st to allow myself to see if my drinking pattern had really changed. During my little experiment I've had days with no drinks and one day that ended in an eight hour party when I had four drinks to no ill effect. So far so good. The only problem that I have encounted being off program is that I am finding myself stopping in the kitchen for "wine tastings" with increasing frequency. A wine tasting is pouring about 1/2 an ounce of something splendid and relishing its taste. This is dangerous territory for me simply because it makes me want to drink more. So tomorrow, I'm back on the program.

:heart: E