slips.. moderation.. abstinence

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slips.. moderation.. abstinence

Re: What is this all about anyway...

Hey all,

The way I see it, whether you?re going for abstinence or moderation, working the program is key. So if someone is having a hard time, or just starting out, those who want to help will first ask and encourage them to implement all aspects of the program. If the person looking for a way out isn?t implementing, or intending to implement the program that Roberta laid out in her book, then it?s kind of hard to know how to give them guidance.

Of course this is not to say that other issues should be left out, or not discussed, or that mistakes should be punished, etc. But the MWO program is the basic foundation that we have to build on. Without that foundation we might find ourselves, after a lot of hard work, with a house of cards. I think we all owe it to ourselves and each other to keep close to the program when clicking add reply, but also to respect the self-defined progress that many people have made here who are working the program.

Peace,
Deirdre

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slips.. moderation.. abstinence

Re: What is this all about anyway...

Well, I do have another 2cents worth...
If I slip, or consider myself way out of control, I think being honest about it on these boards is probably the best for all involved... myself included.
I think if "Newbies" are reading a bunch of posts that aren't really the true story of how this program works for each of us. Who's foolin ...who?
Just a thought.
Once again the name of the program...MY Way OUT...
I think people shouldn't "not" post because they're afraid of getting "enabled" ... ?Alllrighty then, Hugs, Judie

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slips.. moderation.. abstinence

I am happy to see this thread because it articulates exactly how I have been feeling the last week or so but did not know why. I am a newbie, but stopped reading the board for awhile because I just did not need the threads on the fun of reminiscing or currently "procrastinating while drinking" or "slipping again" or "why can't I do this" etc. I did feel those that participated in those threads were enabling and I just did not need it.

So I wholeheartedly agree with Brigid, Nina, Diedre, & Marcie. If you are working "all" aspects of the program as outlined in the book (and whether you are a moderator or an abstainer) then please feel free to advise other wise please be quiet.

I am struggling right now just adjusting to the ins & outs of the program. I am still at 50mg topa because I can't stand the dopey effect & having trouble getting my work done. I just got the olmifon yesterday & that is another challenge. I am sick of the cds (boring) but I do them every night anyway. I hate the kudzu because it gives me diarrhea. I realized that I was not ready to commit to the Moderation Month because I am too busy adjusting. I hope I do not lose my job -- that is how serious this is becoming. I have not been able to concentrate on my work really for weeks.

For me, my drinking has cut down so much that I am happy with my progress and can even see for the first time in my adult life the possiblity of abstaining. For the past week I have been losing my taste for wine. (I lost my taste for vodka.) I am so thirsty & have had 2-3 beers the past 2 nights & liked it. Remarkable. Anyway -- I am mostly just trying to relax to get to sleep. It is all big adjustment physically. I am getting a bit anxious about that. I need to get control of this, relax & get a huge deadline done by next Thurs. Then my daughters graduation; then the grad party. Going up to 75mg topa tommorrow.

Oh, I would love to hear RJ, Brenda & Dr. G. weigh in on this subject of enabling on the boards, etc. Thank you in advance for hearing me.

Chrysa

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slips.. moderation.. abstinence

Brigid

First, I think part of what makes MWO such a revolutionary program is that it can be for moderation or abstinence. We, all of us, are exploring new territory here. For the first time in my drinking life, I feel that I actually have a choice. And right now, I feel much the way you do in terms of the complexity of moderation, but in the long term will choose health as my goal for me and my family. So whatever that is, it is. And guessing what that will be is not too hard. I don?t see bourbon in my future.

As for drinking and driving (which is just plain stupid, as well as endangering the lives of others more than one?s own), I have not seen that post, so I do not know to what you are referring, or if you are being hypothetical, but I think I get the gist.

As to ?enabling,? that?s just a 1980?s psychobabble word that goes right along with ?codependent,? another word that I really don?t buy into. We make our own choices, and we have to live with them. Nobody else makes them for me. Nobody shoved a drink in my hand, especially the people that love me. But it sure brought therapists more than a few bucks for the lasts 20 years, especially in the '80's.

Now if I do something stupid while drunk, then post it on the forum and somebody else then validates it, that is what it is: validating a stupid act. Does that mean I then go out and feel that I can do it again because somebody validated my stupid act: maybe so, maybe not. But if I?m a therapist selling a book and charging patients $150.00 per hour it sure sounds better to use words like ?enabling? and ?codependency.?

I?ll certainly agree that if people make posts about doing stupid things while being drunk, I?ll not validate it in the forum.

But please, do not feel alienated for going the abs way in MWO. Many of us need some abs people to look up to.
Peace,
BP

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slips.. moderation.. abstinence

You know backpacker ..I think thou dost speakest the truth!

It may or may no t be psychobabble -- but self-accountability must step forward!! You are right ...if you see a stupid thread -- you can participate -- or not!!! Grow up. Take whatever responsibility you are ready for. Stop whining.

And truly -- the freedom of this program is in the choice. That is what drew it to me & that is why it has worked for me so far.

Do you or anyone else have any suggestions for my anxiety about the dopiness or am I obsessing...I remember we talked aout this before ..but I forget what you said ;>)

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slips.. moderation.. abstinence

Hey BP, got my all the whey order today. I can't believe how cheap it is like 35 cents a day to replace breakfast.

The coupon for repeat business is astounding.

Thanks for the referral, now if I could just find somewhere to store the 5.2 pound bottle.

Dug

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slips.. moderation.. abstinence

Chrysalis,
As to the dopey effect, many, like myself, felt it more at the lower dosages than at the higher, as our bodies got used to it. Do a search on Topamax and you should find many posts on side effects.

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slips.. moderation.. abstinence

Re: backpacker -thank you -- search --why did I not think of

Search why did I not think of that -- & I make a living on computer -- great tool --thanks -- I was serious about prev comments

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slips.. moderation.. abstinence

Hi All,

I just need to put in my two cents about the "Motley" crew of moderators, enabling and whatnot, some of which openly participate on the thread and some of which don't, but follow the thread.

I will openly admit that I could easily be, and might have been, an enabler here on MWO. If anyone wants to call me on it, please do! Not publicly, please, a nice little note in my ezbox will do. I'm open to criticism, but don't like public humiliation! I tend to be nice and supportive, and to paraphrase Marcie, the line between support and enabling can be a thin one!

On the other hand, some of us on the moderation thread are experiencing a level of success that they hadn't dreamed of a number of months ago. Perhaps it isn't moderation as defined by others or Moderation Management. But it is significantly better than they had dreamed or hoped. They slip and screw up, just like those who are trying to abstain. They keep trying or drop out, just like those trying to abstain.

MWO was developed as a program for those who were trying to moderate as an alternative to AA and other programs. It has developed into something amazing that can help people achieve different goals. People sometimes change from one goal to another. I believe in following the basic protocols. But we all have to get to where we are going on our own paths, and I don't believe that critical commentary is going to help. We have separate moderation and abstinence threads for a reason.

Oh, there is one AA principle that I really believe in. Run your own program. Don't run other peoples' programs.

Love to all.
Kathy

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slips.. moderation.. abstinence

slips, moderation, abstinence

Well said Kathy, I would hate for this to turn into a debate over which group is better. I can feel from the moderation board that we are all becoming more and more proud of ourselves for going in the right direction; it might not be right for all but for some of us it is. And as for the abstainers? I admire all of you beyond words. I think we all deserve a pat on the back for acknowledging our problem and working to make it better and not worse.

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slips.. moderation.. abstinence

Re: Interesting thread

This discussion has been awesome! I really like that we can discuss things rationally and in a mature way. I remember several months ago, this could have gotten quite nasty.

I think in many ways we are all right. But for me it just boils down to doing the program. If you have done the program and it hasn't worked, then maybe it is time for you to reevalute things. If you have done the program and are able to successfully moderate, this is awesome! I hope to do this one day too. If you are doing the program and have realized through the clarity you have found that you need to be an abstainer, then this is also positive.

I don't think, at least from my point of view that this discussion was meant to say that moderation or abstaining is better than the other. I feel its theme runs through all of our posts. Do the program and see where you go from there. If you won't do the program, how can those of us who are guide you along?

Yes, we can all share stories about how bad we have been or the mistakes we have made, but in the end I don't think this helps us recover. Doing the program, working the principles, asking for advice when you are having trouble with the program, growing and tweaking the program to fit your needs etc...-will help us recover.

We all slip, we all make mistakes-this is life. I guess in the end, I feel some on the board are not working the program and then those of us who are have to try and support them when they slip. I just find this difficult.

-Nina

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slips.. moderation.. abstinence

Re: Interesting thread

Thanks Nina, the last paragraph of your post summed it up for me. I've decided not to reply to the posts that bother me because of the posters lack of action or commitment., I guess because I have followed the program to the letter except for Topa and the success amazes me daily. For me it's diffucult to be supportive of posts that say, I haven't bought the book, CD's, supps nor have I seen my doctor about Topa but I am reading the message boards and I'm wondering why I'm having trouble moderating, also I am writing down the number of drinks I consume everyday but I seem to be drinking as much as ever. The how many drinks post is truely amazing.

Whew, feel cleansed to get that out because I want to help others to be as successful as I've been. Sometimes it's best just to say nuttin!!

Dug

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slips.. moderation.. abstinence

Re: Interesting thread

Yup

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slips.. moderation.. abstinence

Re: Interesting thread

Bravo Brigid! Great post. Where did you learn to be so controversial

I haven't been on the board in months, but what I do know is there is such a thing as enabling and codependency. (someone referred to it as "psychobabble") Oh, my friends, it does exist. And to choose to deny that tells me you haven't accepted that you have an issue with alcohol.

Perhaps you all need to remind yourselves that you are relatively new to sobriety or moderation...if you have managed to moderate successfully for five years+, then possibly, you can disagree with Brigid. I think, if not, it's best to listen to everyone. Perhaps she offers some sage advice.

Who here has even done a year of moderation successfully? Well?

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slips.. moderation.. abstinence

Re: Interesting thread

Ok, I thought we put this thread to rest!