disease of the brain?

[fammy]

who agrees with this concept. Who agrees with genetic pre-disposition in regards to the disease? I know i do. How come more people don't seek tx. and think that if by posting here daily, they will stay sober. It just seems like, we, as drinkers, alcoholics....whatever u want to call us, need more then a web site. at least i do, and have found that outpatient has been amazing. Prior to drinking for the last five years, i was clean/sober for 12 years. i am not new to this disease but just was curious about people's thoughts. i mean i read the sections and people relapse over and over and over again, why not go for a higher level of tx. i mean the goal is sobriety. so if u can do that with a higher level of care, this includes AA mtgs., why don't people do it? CUZ THEIR NOT DONE DRINKING YET!

[Saint Jude]

disease of the brain?

Oh yeah, I can see how curious you are about my thoughts
It's not like you haven't decided any of this for ALL of US already now is it?

Personaly, I'm happy moderating, and have been for almost 2 years now(in case you're really interested...)
And I've tried AA,... been 13 stepped (or tried to be), TOO many times by horny old SOB's. So, AA is not for me. They can keep their hipocracy to themselves...as far as I'm concerned.
Just my 2cents worth.:thanks:

[Guest]

disease of the brain?

Hi fammy,
I think we are all different and our alcoholism is a very personal matter, in that different tools will work for different people as regards becoming sober.

Lots of people here ARE done drinking, but for many, like myself, there are a lot of false starts to endure before we quit for real.

I can only speak from my own experiences...........when I quit for 10 yrs. before, I did so unaided........no rehab, no AA, no website.......I was able to quit independently back then.
This time around, I have successfully quit through coming to M.W.O., so I can only say that a website is enough support to allow us to quit, provided we are wholeheartedly committed to quitting.

I am now working on addressing the reasons why I drank to ensure I remain sober, which I`m confident I shall do.

Starlight Impress x

[fammy]

disease of the brain?

Saint Jude;215325 wrote: Oh yeah, I can see how curious you are about my thoughts
It's not like you haven't decided any of this for ALL of US already now is it?

Personaly, I'm happy moderating, and have been for almost 2 years now(in case you're really interested...)
And I've tried AA,... been 13 stepped (or tried to be), TOO many times by horny old SOB's. So, AA is not for me. They can keep their hipocracy to themselves...as far as I'm concerned.
Just my 2cents worth.:thanks:

i find AA diffucult too, don't be so quick to judge me. Im not talking about moderating. I've tried it, can do it during the week, but fall apart on the weekends. so congrats to ur moderating. my question was more about wether or not u beleive in the disease concept and genetic pre-dispostion theory. Little defensive this a.m. are we?

[Guest]

disease of the brain?

x

[Saint Jude]

disease of the brain?

Fammy,
I apologize for that responce.
Your post just came across to me as, answering your own questions ,...while asking them.
Just kinda seemed like the "big AA sale".
Again sorry.
And no, I'm not done drinking, that's why I moderate. Why I'm here at MWO. It works for me.
Best to you.:h

Ps as far as the pre-disposition.. I'm not so sure. My Dad drinks a lot & so do I (or I used to till I found MWO 2 yrs ago). But my Mom, Brother & Sis hardly drink much at all. So 2 out of 5...

[lucky 2.0]

disease of the brain?

i believe it is a choice- not a disease. and i detest AA.

[fammy]

disease of the brain?

Saint Jude;215335 wrote: Fammy,
I apologize for that responce.
Your post just came across to me as, answering your own questions ,...while asking them.
Just kinda seemed like the "big AA sale".
Again sorry.
And no, I'm not done drinking, that's why I moderate. Why I'm here at MWO. It works for me.
Best to you.:h

best to u too. If u knew me u would no i would not come on here and do the "big AA sale." i don't go to AA...everybodies program is different. i want people to be happy, succeesful and AF...if they choose.

[fammy]

disease of the brain?

katesm;215344 wrote: Hi Fammy,

This topic has come up up time and time again. Sometimes creating controversy, but in latter times I think people are more interested in genuine self-help, and are opening themselves up to anything that will create progress.

Genetic predisposition is statistically a genuine fact. It may skip a generation, or perhaps choose X amount of members of a generation, but it's there.

Google THIQ's and you'll get areally good idea of why the alcoholic brain is different to the "normal" brain. A medical fact.

As to "not done with drinking yet"?. Come on, why do people come here? I have no problem with the AA concept, I also have no problem with people being unable to embrace the AA concept. Outpatient programs? Inpatient programs? I think I've read the gamut of all types of attempts at self-help.

Fact is, people come here, bleeding for help and support, trying to fight their way out of this confounding addiction. What they receive is people of a similar ilk. People desperate to help themselves out of their problem and finding similar personalities desperate to do the same. They lend each other support, compassion, and above all else, a true understanding of what each of us are going through.

This is GOOD. Nothing to do with "not done with drinking yet".

And this is not just a website. I respect that all of us who come here and learn, understand this. We come to know each other, we come to learn the specific traits of our members. We bear their sorrows like we bear our own. And in return we receive unconditional support and a place to be truly honest and free.

This is a community. A community of good spirit and fine minds. And we are here to help each other, as we do.

I love us.

thank u for that insite. I agree, this place started me down my path of recovery. If it wasn't for MWO i would not be here.

[hippie37]

disease of the brain?

I had many false starts over a period of about 10 years. I agree with you fammy some people are just not ready to admit they have a problem. The question is though how big a problem is it. Alcoholics are people who cannot moderate their drinking, full stop. I am one of those, I AM and Alcoholic. But, there are those that can and who are simply heavy drinkers and whish to abstain or moderate their drinking. Through programs like MWO they find they can do that, some may find it harder than others, but it all comes back to this question; "a thinking problem or a drinking problem?". I really hate the approach that AA takes with this that Alcoholism is a disease. There is no Grey area as far as AA is concerned "You have a problem right, then QUIT drinking". It's bullshit for some people, and I agree. Not everyone who has a drink problem is an Alcoholic. There is a big question at the moment whether certain people who have a certain gene are more likely to become addicts. I say it depends on the individual.

Love and Happiness
Hippie
xx

[beatle]

disease of the brain?

Sorry, I am in the middle of putting my kids to bed, but this thread intrigued me. Of course you can google yourself but, here .... (please read it to the bottom if you haven't seen this before... it is both condemning and very inspiring--- we CAN recover!)

T.H.I.Q. --Biochemical Culprit

Heredity studies, done all over the world, clearly show that genetics is far more significant in determining whether or not you'll be an alcoholic than any other single factor. Genetics is more significant than any combination of social or environmental factors examined.

The report is not saying that a person is born an alcoholic. However, evidence is conclusive that some people are indeed at greater risks to alcoholism because of their heredity, and if they ever start drinking they run a high risk of developing the disease.

If you love your children don't condemn them with a high chance of getting this disease, stop your drinking!

T.H.I.Q. was discovered in brains of alcoholics in Houston, Texas by a scientist named Virginia Davis who was doing cancer research. For her study she needed fresh human brains and used bodies of homeless winos who had died during the night and were picked up by Houston police in the morning.

She discovered in the brains of those chronic alcoholics a substance that is closely related to Heroin. This substance, known to scientists, is called Tetrahydrolsoqulnoline or THIQ When a person shoots heroin into their body, some of it breaks down and turns into THIQ The Alcoholics studied had not been using heroin so how did the THIQ get there?

When the normal adult drinker takes in alcohol, it is very rapidly eliminated at the rate of about one drink per hour. The body first converts the alcohol into something called Acetaldehyde. This chemical is VERY TOXIC and if it were to build up inside us, we would get VIOLENTLY SICK AND COULD DIE. But Mother Nature helps us to get rid of acetaldehyde very quickly. She efficiently changes it a couple of more times - into carbon dioxide and water - which is eliminated through kidneys and lungs. That's what happens to normal drinkers. It also happens with alcoholic drinkers, but with alcoholic drinkers something additional happens.

What Virginia discovered in Huston has been extensively confirmed since. In alcoholic drinkers, a very small amount of poisonous acetaldehyde is not eliminated. Instead it goes to the brain. There through a very complicated biochemical process, it winds up as THIQ

Research has found the following:

THIQ is manufactured in the brain and only occurs in the brain of the alcoholic drinker. It is not manufactured in the brain of the normal social drinker of alcohol.

THIQ has been found to be highly addictive. It was tried in experimental use with animals during the Second World War when we were looking for a painkiller less addicting than morphine. THIQ was a pretty good pain killer but t couldn't be used on humans. It turned out to be much more addicting than morphine.

Experiments have shown that certain kinds of rats cannot be made to drink alcohol. Put in a cage with very weak solution of vodka and water., these rats refuse to touch it. They will literally thirst to death before the agree to drink alcohol. However, if you take the same kind of rat and put a minute quantity of THIQ into the rat's brain -- one quick injection -- the animal will immediately develope a preference for alcohol over water.

Studies done with monkeys, our close animal relative in medical terms, show the following:

A. Once the THIQ is injected into a monkey's brain, it stays there.

B. You can keep the monkey dry off alcohol for 7 years but brain studies

show that THIQ remains in place in the brain.

The alcoholic's body, like normal drinkers, changes the alcohol into acetaldehyde and then it changes most of it into carbon dioxide and water, which in the end kicks out through the kidneys and lungs. However, the alcoholic's bodies won't kick all these chemicals out. The Alcoholic's brain holds a few bits back and transforms them into THIQ. As THIQ is accumulated in the brain of an alhoholic, at some point, maybe sooner, maybe later, the alcoholic will cross over a shadowy line into a whole new way of living.

It is not known by medical science, at this time, where this line is or how much THIQ an individual brain will pile up before one crosses this line. Some predisposed people cross the line while they're teenagers, or earlier. Others cross in their 30's or 40's and others after retirement. But once this happens the alcoholic will be as hooked on alcohol, as he would have been hooked on heroin if he'd been shooting that instead.

Now comes the loss of control. Now it's chronic. progressive and incurable. Now it's all to clearly a disease.

GOOD NEWS:

Alcoholism is a disease.

Alcoholism is not the alcoholic's fault.

Alcoholics can get proper treatment for the disease, which begins with telling them these facts.

The alcoholic can be relieved of guilt.

The alcoholic can take on responsibility for arresting their disease.

The alcoholic can refuse to put more THIQ in their brains and refuse to activate the THIQ that is already there.

Alcoholics can and do recover.

[BabyGirl]

disease of the brain?

All I am new to the site and read everyday but don't post too often...

I do believe that:

• there are genetic factors -- we are predisposed -- I am an Irish femalethere are environmental factors -- childhood trauma,for example

I have used it mainly in my adult life to relieve loneliness as family & friends seem to live farther away. And, for me it became a habit. An expensive habit.

Since finding this site I have had more AF days than not. I am grateful.

[BabyGirl]

disease of the brain?

Thank you Kate! I appreciate the encouragement. I guess I need to "hop"in more often!

[wonderworld]

disease of the brain?

A very intersting post Fammy. It's a subject I have thought alot about. You said "the goal is sobriety" and I think that might mean different things to different people. For you that means total abstinence. But you sound angry about people "relapsing". They are making choices and examning the results. What's wrong with that? This is a very personal path, and everyone needs to find their own way.

I have been AF like 90% of my adult life! And for 5 and 10 year stretches. Each time I went back to drinking (for anywhere from 3 weeks to 2 years), my reasons were different, and my needs in terms of recovery changed. I am not the same person who walked into my fist AA meeting 25 years ago. And, I would also point out that, in my opinion, there are people with 20+ years of sobriety in AA who I think have never dealt with their core issues. They are kept stable and safe by the program but stall out when it comes to deeper self-examination. And as they say I do not "want what they have", even though I'm just working my way back from a relapse too. There are also people I know who have very long term sobriety in AA who live healthy balanced lives, and go to an AA meeting only once in a while for a reminder.

I think the brain/genetic factor plays in for sure. I think it also depends on how you grew up. I found it interesting that Roberta Jewell was born from addicted parents, but was adopted and rasied by a sane loving family w/out addiction. Maybe this is part of why she was so highly functioning despite the alcohol, and why she has been able to moderate so successfully. I don't know. But the science suggests that the people with substance dependency do indeed have differences from "normal" drinkers in their makeup. And science is learning more about this all the time.

And one last thing, while we're on the subject..... Sometimes I feel like people who "have to" be AF may look at it as a punishment or deprivation. For me, being AF is a really nice way to live. I like it. I found that there were so many things I used to do because I wanted to be "normal". Along the way, I started to ask - hey, if I have to have a few drinks to make it through those situations or to be comfortable, or to have a good time, then maybe I don't really want to do those things anyway. And if I WANT to do those things, then it's so worthwhile to figure out what's causing the anxiety and learn to do them with joy and a peaceful mind. When I first got to this board, I was a little scared of (and jealous) of people who could moderate and be just fine. But now I feel like, what's the big deal? If I'm at peace with my path, and accept it, then hearing what everyone else does is no threat. And there are an awful lot of lovely Moderators here who DO have some of "what I want" in terms of serenity and health and good lives. I learn alot from them too.

AA has been the main method for achieving and sustaining abstinence since its inception. It has helped millions of people get sober and have good lives. I thank God that it exists. But even in AA, it's a very personal path. And for some it's a perfect fit and a life saver. And that's just fine with me.

[lucky 2.0]

disease of the brain?

The Lizard Brain Addiction Monster

I thought this was a good read if interested. Great if you like it and fine if you don't.