Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

[KateH1]

Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

Wow! Lucky what a powerful but true statement!

When RJ came to chat last week, several of us asked her, why her program is not more public, RJ explained all of the complications with doing this.......we MUST find a way to get the MWO message out there!

As for music and massage, as well as water therapy, Reiki, aromatherapy, etc. etc.......I am certain that RJ would support anything that works and is Healthy and Positive! I know that I am using all of the above!

Thank you for this discussion, Lucky!

Namaste,
KateH

[Finding My Self]

Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

My feeling was that too many in AA seemed to love the fact that, although (to me, like me) they had lost the plot, lost all self-discipline, learned drinking habits from family....you name it - and none of these do I pass judgement on BTW - and ended up drinking too much.....discovered, "Wow, AA's the perfect 'cure' (let off)....it tells me I've got an incurable disease!!! Yea! I don't have to do anything, least of all feel guilty or change my behaviour and get better, I can't get better; it's not my fault, nothing can be done and all I have to do is mix with my own, go to meetings every night and surrender my whole being to ....the bottle! Even though I don't drink from it any more...I'll talk about it 25/8 for the rest of my life...." And they seem so darned proud of this?!?! ...

AAGH! I am glad to be here!

(sorry, that might have been a bit strong....! I've had it a lot easier than some....and I am sure there is a lot to the inherited genes thing....there is much to be discovered about that...but here, well, I think it does help?...)

[nancy]

Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

It is very worrying that the AA/12 step model is the main option for alcoholics and problem drinkers.

If it was just one of a number of accepted options, I think that would be ok.

AA offers support and it's free, which is great. But the 'alcoholism is a disease' approach seems very flawed to me. In his book Easy Way to Control Alcohol, Alan Carr points out all the flaws in the AA approach, while also paying tribute to the program for the people it has helped. Among other things, he takes aim at this idea that alcoholism is a disease, yet the only way you know you have it is through self-analysis. It's supposeldy like an allergy, but this is an odd analogy, says Alan, given that typically if you have a deadly allergy to something you run for the hills, you don't run towards the substance. He also attacks the vision of the poor alcoholic, salivating for more booze for the rest of his or her life. HE just advises people to give it up and move on.

In terms of available approaches, I do think that part of the problem is related to gender. I think we need more programs that are developed by women. Women want flexible cooperative options, such as the My Way Out program. I am not saying this program is just for women, because it's obviously helped a lot of men. But I do think that this program has a lot of things that appeal to women: flexibility, cooperation, non-judgemental, looking for causes instead of just having a blanket order to stop drinking, lack of labeling, focus on psychology and relationships.

AA is a one-size fits all approach that puts labels on people. That is understandably a turn-off to a lot of people.

As for the ortho-molecular approach, I would like to see some proof before I shelled out thousands for inpatient, supplement-based treatment. I hope some objective researchers are out there looking into this. It makes me angry that there are so many 'theories' about such a serious problem.

[beatle]

Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

Here, here, Nancy. Very well put.

I do think there is a good bit of evidence, however, for the physical roots of alcoholism and for treating it through supplementation, as well as other healthy living (good diet, exercise, etc.). For example, the Health Recovery Center has kept good statistics over the years, and they show a very high rate of long-term recovery. I know there are others that also take a similar approach with good results. This is in contrast to the 12-step programme, with miserable statistics, or often none at all (what are they hiding?).

It also makes me angry that this is being ignored worldwide by most of the medical establishment and all others involved. WHY?

[Finding My Self]

Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

"It makes me angry that there are so many 'theories' about such a serious problem."

Me too, Nancy...well put...

Without major input there might well be carnage in a few years with the amount of young bingers falling foul of the idea that being drunk is funny/cool...

[sammys]

Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

AA is a cult and it labels you forever, I could go on about the one time I went and what happened but the main thing is it would never work for me, I am doing way better being part of a group like this. I drink way less, have opened my eyes and am happy.


Sammys

[Flip]

Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

What I meant by the statement that I was a "dry drunk" was that I have the caffine/sugar thing happening - I've put ON 10kg since I stopped drinking!

I am NOT a dry drunk in the AA meaning of the term. I have/am dealing with my demons and have completely changed my life.

Now to deal with the sugar thing.... ho hum

[Finding My Self]

Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

Go Flip!!

Too right - just realised....if 'dry drunk' is an AA term: Dog, they've 'got you' everywhere! Drunk, wet drunk, dry drunk...not to mention all the "if you enjoy it and do it more than once you are just exhibiting alkie behaviour..." No, you're just human!

Sammys - well done! I agree. I feel a bit bad AA-bashing...I know I wouldn't want them MWO-bashing so.... it seems it's a hard ghost for some of us to lay though?...those labels stick like velcro!!

[AAthlete]

Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

Okay, time for an opposing opinion if only for the sake of more debate.

What people need to realize is that not every AA group is the same. Some bastardize the message to suite their own needs, others preach what they think people should do instead of following what is laid out in the Big Book.

I'm not going to tell you what does and what does not work. I will tell you that is has worked for me, and I am now closing in on six months of sobriety. The people I have met (including my sponser) are the nicest people I have ever met, and consider them among my closest friends. If you wish to classify me as being part of a cult, then feel free. However, if you go back and read my posts I hope that you see that I am no different then anybody else here.

You know, I've been on this site for awhile now and it has helped me stay AF. But, it wasn't until I changed the reasons behind my drinking that I was able to quit, and honestly not want to drink anymore. It is simply not there anymore, and my outlook on life has done a literal 180! I wish I could put into words how different I feel - I truly have a new lease on life...

I wouldn't trade anything that I've learned here, nor would I trade anything I've learned in AA. I use both to help me, and try not to be too critical of anyone who is trying to do their best at anything. Let's be honest - can any program (including this one) claim to have any better of a success rate? There is no program out there that guarantees success against alcoholism. Just as people here can say they don't want to apologize to the people they've hurt, or admit they are powerless over alcohol, there are also people who don't want to dump a bunch of chemicals into their bodies in an attempt to beat this problem.

My point would be is that you always need to keep searching for your solution. If you are being open and honest with yourself, then that is all that really matters, right?

Cheers to all, and hope you have a great weekend!

[tawnyfrog]

Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

Hi AAthlete .... so good to see you checking in. Well done on the nearly 6 months - however you got there!

I wish you well.

[Breez]

Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

I agree with AAthlete. I don't like to bash other programs since I do know a few people (when I did outpatient yrs ago) I met who swore that AA saved their lives. AA is not for me personally but there are quite a few people here who do the MWO program & AA. I'd hate for them to feel bad or ashamed to admit that they do AA. I say whatever works ~I applaud.

[memarcie]

Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

I say whatever works is great. If it can get one of us sober, who cares how.

[Cheech66]

Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

AAthlete,

I would be interested if you could elaborate on the following statement: You know, I've been on this site for awhile now and it has helped me stay AF. But, it wasn't until I changed the reasons behind my drinking that I was able to quit, and honestly not want to drink anymore. It is simply not there anymore, and my outlook on life has done a literal 180! I wish I could put into words how different I feel - I truly have a new lease on life... I too believe that you must analyze why it is you drink to access and then and only then can you truely be free from the beast however you choose to go about it!!!

tks, Cheech66

[KateH1]

Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

Athelete, Happy to hear that you have something that works for you. I do agree that we all need to find our way. I also believe that we can openly share our feelings and experiences with those methods that we have tried in the past.

Not everyone here takes chemicals, I for one do not, my choice. I know that meds work very well for some others, their choice.

I also do not believe that anyone is against apologizing to any people that they have hurt. Again, that should be a personal choice. Though, I for one do not believe in confessing and apologizing to every person that we have ever come in contact with while drinking.

I tried many, many AA groups, it just wasn't for me. But, here at MWO, I do feel free to speak about my experience and I enjoy learning from the experience of others.

MWO has been a huge part, the catalyst in fact for me curbing my drinking and now living AF.

You have a great weekend as well,
KateH

[Victory]

Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

Hats off to the lolly pushers

Hesitating to knock AA because anything that stops people from continuing on the downward spiral into their personal hell is OK by me. AA venues in Aus are Ghastly; depressingly run down, cold, super shabby and sometimes smelly. At times it seemed [to me], as if they were gloating over who had the most horrendous story and it left me traumatised. I ran away scared and desperate as ever. Had it ever been suggested that lollies and sweets would have helped me stay AF then I would have learned to like them. Also, is the lady in the video counting slips as a failure? Where did she get the 3% success rate from? Is anyone who slips part of the 97% Non success rate? No AA is definitely not for me but it has pulled some out of the gutter so good luck to them. Whatever it takes, I will not judge.

In retrospect?
1), during my 4 visits to AA I was in a pretty Fu***d up state and in no real position to judge the validity of the program.
2), The horrendous stories triggered my own guilt and shame, which I couldn?t deal with at the time and still have trouble dealing with the memories.

AA will never compare with MWO but if they can help someone?. Anyone?. then hats off to them.

RE: DRY DRUNK
My understanding of the dry drunk is someone who doesn?t embrace what living AF has to offer: Clear head, good health, new start, recovered self-esteem to name a few. I have met people who never drank but still suffer the alleged symptoms of being a dry drunk. Such as: negativity, victim hood, the deck is stacked against me, what ever I do turns to dust etc?. you don?t have to be struggling to be AF to be a ?dry drunk? as it?s really called negativity.

Hats off to the lolly pushers I say
:baaah: