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    #31
    Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

    In the end, it's you and only you who can "recover" from alcoholism. We all need help, but it still comes down to ourselves. We seek help and when we get what helps us along, we continue to "use" that help.

    AAthlete (and many others) have been able to "use" AA to help them and that's great. Nonetheless, fundamentally, AA is a cult and does do more harm than good. It fits perfectly the definition of a cult (strong leader, dogma, a "bible-like book, an us-them, all-or-nothing approach, etc.).

    Still, of course the people are all different and as Athlete points out, some groups don't "go by the book". Apparently it is those groups that are most successful. And for those that have benefited from AA, that's great. Whatever works, go for it. Just remember it's YOU who did it, not AA. That in fact is the basis of MWO-- MY way out. Not YOUR way out (which is the basis of AA).
    Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life... And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary.

    Steve Jobs, Stanford Commencement Adress, 2005

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      #32
      Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

      The success rate of being in recovery is better without AA according the info @ orange papers. People stop drinking more often without AA than with it. People with no therapy, no group mtgs, just on their own free will. Hallelujah! Remember, we do have a free will.

      I will stop bashing AA on this thread now but I do despise it and I think it is as evil almost as Hitler was and I am serious. Those that did get help in AA would have most likely made the decision to live a healthier life with or without the cult.

      Thank God for reason and for MWO.

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        #33
        Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

        Lucky, c'mon-- Hitler?

        Everyone knows I agree with you-- AA does more harm than good. But, at least people have a choice (everyone who joins a cult has a choice). I don't think you can say that about the concentration camp victims.

        At any rate, the people who do benefit from AA do so because of their own will. They should be applauded (clap clap for you AAthlete).

        The day will come, you and I know it will, when AA is stripped of its power (and truly, it has POWER!). Meanwhile, if there are some that are helped by it, we should be in awe and respect them for getting help without becoming indoctrinated.
        Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life... And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary.

        Steve Jobs, Stanford Commencement Adress, 2005

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          #34
          Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

          well, Hitler is mildly extreme but what about all those people who are court ordered to AA and have no choice? the courts = hitler to me. ok, i take that back too- but hitler was evil and AA is evil. there. done. no more comments from me, for the moment, on this subject. i really do think AA is evil. Hitler is evil. How can you measure more evil vs. less evil? I have never seen an evil scale.

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            #35
            Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

            Am not a fan of AA but..........

            A cult usually consists of 3 major components:
            1). A living leader
            2). They take all your money
            3). They brainwash you
            AA is definitely not for me, but it is not a cult. Llaying it on the line in terms of ?you cannot drink for the rest of your life or else?.?, is a fact [for me] not brainwashing. Have never had a sweet tooth but as previously mentioned, would try to like lollies if it could stop me from drinking to the point that it has nearly destroyed my life. Hats off to any program that can help someone, anyone to stop self-destructing.
            :baaah:

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              #36
              Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

              A) Definitions of cults differ. The generally used one applies to AA.

              B) Yes, hats off to any program that can help someone-- the POINT here is that AA does more harm than good. So, hats off to the few that manage to make something out of it, but NOT hats off to AA.
              Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life... And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary.

              Steve Jobs, Stanford Commencement Adress, 2005

              Comment

                #37
                Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

                AA is in my strongest opinion a cult, a harmful cult, and here is why:

                Cult Test, AA Answers 0

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                  #38
                  Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

                  Whatever???????.works for you

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                    #39
                    Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

                    yeah

                    I have tried both ways and feel like a failure both ways when I go overboard and do stupid things, AA does work for alot of my friends, but I wonder alot about it..............they have told me I need to leave my husband, so I am wondering if I am brainwashed, or just seeing reality, this was really good for me to read, cuz I am in the middle of the battle of my brain over what to do w/ my life, BIG decision!! AM HAVING ALOT OF MIXED FEELINGS!!!!!

                    just thanks for the thread , it will make me think this thing through more thoroughly:thanks:

                    will talk to you later, have to take Zac to a birthday party..............

                    lots of love,:h

                    MA:l
                    :rays:My happiness is my greatest gift to others:rays:eace:

                    Comment

                      #40
                      Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

                      keep your brain.
                      Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life... And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary.

                      Steve Jobs, Stanford Commencement Adress, 2005

                      Comment

                        #41
                        Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

                        This discussion is so interesting. Lots of memories are coming back to me from my days in AA - five years worth. I have perused the Orange Papers and I can't believe how comprehensive it is. I realize that even after being out of AA for about 7 years I still have some paranoid effects of the brainwashing in my system. I felt GUILTY that I didn't get a sponsor after my first two died - like I wasn't really "working the program." I felt bad for the people who "went out" and then came back and had to start all over again with those darn chips. When I "went out" after five years I didn't drink myself into the gutter and die like I was told I would. My my my, all these things I was told. I felt like a loser much of the time and not "equal" to the people with more years in the program. My one year wasn't as good as my two years and my two years wasn't as good as my three years - and on and on. People would get up and take their cake for 20 years and say stuff like it took them 20 years to peel off enough "layers of the onion" to get to the wonderful place they were in. I, of course, interpreted this as I had to achieve another 17 years or so of sobriety to get to this place. That I was somehow a non-person when I was a drinker and I was "born" the day I stopped drinking and therefore was age 17 emotionally when I was in reality 41. What a crock - and I bought it all so I would be a good AA'er.

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                          #42
                          Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

                          Actually Beatle, I am under no illusions that I did this myself. I did have a spiritual experience (remember, there is a difference between a religious and spiritual experience). I tried for years to beat this thing on my own, and even when I managed to stop drinking for a period of time all the bitterness and jealousy (among other things) that caused me to drink in the first place were still there.

                          It's nice to be happy and content in life for a change. I sit here and read some of the posts on this topic, and am frankly amazed at the energy expended to lay claim to AA being a cult (or something similar). That's one of the great things about this site - you can post whatever you feel like posting - and I do cherish that. However, I refuse to devote my time being negative about anything for any period of time, much less a topic such as this.

                          Now if you will excuse me, I need to go do something truly important to me - read my son a book before bedtime!
                          Sobriety Date: June 15, 2007 -- "It's not having what you want, It's wanting what you've got...."

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                            #43
                            Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

                            just a thought

                            I think that whatever works for anyone is cool, I think I want a "happy medium", whatever works ! Copascedic.. ...........(is that spelled right???? anyway, get my point?!)

                            love ya all,

                            MA
                            :rays:My happiness is my greatest gift to others:rays:eace:

                            Comment

                              #44
                              Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

                              Dry drunk is also the word used for the kids of alcoholics who grow up with the same patterns thanks to alanon (they invent their own diseases cause don't have one?!) - oh give me strength!

                              Cashy
                              xx
                              "Life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans" - John Lennon

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                                #45
                                Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

                                PS AA was like a diet for me (and we all know they dont work for most of us!) but it made me think about it (drinking) all day every day - like all the food missing from whatever diet that you really don't want that badly but cause you cant have it and then obsess about it....
                                If you're the obsessing type I reckon AA is not the way, but others it helps...
                                Cx
                                "Life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans" - John Lennon

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