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    #46
    Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

    AA = Hitler, awww come on!!!! It was not my way but Nazis I don't think so - that would put fundamentalists of any religious persuasion you choose in the same bracket as far as I can see - and they may get right up my pretty little nostrils but Nazis, I think not.
    "Life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans" - John Lennon

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      #47
      Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

      Wading in here V E R Y carefully and with a LOT of trepidation. And keep in mind, just my 2 cents.

      Also, having NEVER tried either, but...

      As a bystander, it seems to me one can almost come away from it like this:

      I personally know people who claim to be (and, importantly, SEEM to be helped by BOTH AA and, for instance, Scientology...NEITHER of which appeal to me, for similar reasons). Both too culty for my tastes. At the same time, I've heard, anecdotally, of people giving up "too much" of themselves for both (Tom Cruise, anyone? On the other hand, Beck doesn't seem too worse the wear for his associations...).

      My point? I guess it's this: my knee jerk reaction, personally is: ewwwwwwww. But, you know, if it's personally helpful, who am I to judge? That may be overly simplistic, and perhaps I'm playing a bit of the devil's advocate here for the sake of argument...I think I definitely am, actually, as I typically have a bee in my bonnet about both organizations...

      Live and let live then? Is that my message? Eh, forget it. I think I've gone soft in my dotage...

      -HopefulNow (and a soft underbelly, too)
      Taking it all in

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        #48
        Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

        Well done hopefulnow-

        I am way passionate so will not post further comments but all know my opinion.

        Well, I do have to say this:

        I read a very thought provoking book once and was in a study group for it. It was called People of the Lie by M. Scott Peck. It was about human evil. And evil hides where you least suspect it, like the church and I would say like AA.

        People can support it but I still believe in my heart of hearts it is evil.

        I will try my best to not post further on this thread so that it can die. I just feel so bad for those sentenced to AA through the court system. If people choose it out of free will, it is beyond my comprehension but there are those sentenced to the program and that is just wrong.

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          #49
          Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

          Lucky (et al.),

          I would almost venture to say that anything that is TOO dogmatic, TOO prescriptive, is, well...too, too. TOO one size fits all. TOO confining. TOO restrictive. And by definitinion, TOO much.

          I dunno.

          I bristle at an easy approach to anything -- especially people. Hell, I'm not even sure coffee ice cream can easily be labeled "sweet" or "punchy" or "caffeinated" or whathaveyou.

          Knowhamaimsayin?

          Ebbs and tides, ebbs and tides.

          Officially off my soapbox now, thanks.

          But no less complicated!

          -HopefulNow
          Taking it all in

          Comment

            #50
            Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

            Aathlete, you have a good point that there is an awful lot of negativity here about AA. I think the reason is that many of us have had such negative experiences with it that we want to get it off our chests -- and also we do believe it is harmful to many people (though not all)and therefore feel a need to fight against it.

            I can only speak for myself in saying that I would probably be happy to let it be and not feel so much negativity if it weren't for all the pressure on me -- from family and from society -- to take on the AA life. AA has somehow monopolised the world's concept of alcoholics and monopolised the rehabilitation of people with alcohol problems, purposely, leaving most people with little (or no) choice.

            It is sad, but the negativity is there because we are being pressured and pushed into something we don't want or believe in, and our free will is being pulled at and sometimes taken away. I think this is what Lucky means by "evil".
            Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life... And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary.

            Steve Jobs, Stanford Commencement Adress, 2005

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              #51
              Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

              I have not really ever had the opportunity to try AA due to there not being one anywhere near me, I guess if there was I would have tried it by now, so I cannot comment either way- but more to the point is anyone going to try the book written by lady in the video?

              It looks interesting stuff to me- I have been reading similar articles on a website written by a guy called Jurriaan Plesman BA.

              Here he is discussing the matter with an AA member- interesting and helpful views on both sides, but I would like to think Jurriaan Plesman is right- if you follow the links to his website it makes extremely interesting reading.


              Alcoholism seen as a Nutritional Disease at Addicition: Alcohol ... Alternative Alcohol Addiction

              Anyway, later when I get back (have to go out now) I will be buying the downloadable version of the book on the You Tube Video link.

              Comment

                #52
                Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

                I agree, marbella, and I am planning to get that book, too.

                Another VERY GOOD book is "Seven Weeks to Sobriety". (Most of you probably know about this already). I think the basic premise is the same, i.e. that alcohol addiction is not just mental, but majorly physical. This book outlines in detail a supplemental programme to detox, and then a nutritional and supplemental programme to follow, all with the goal of changing the body's and brain's chemistry to combat addiction (and to stay unaddicted).

                You have to add your own spiritual and mental development to this programme, but it offers a proven way to change your body/brain, so you can move on to the rest of the equation.

                For me, this book/programme (Seven Weeks), together with the MWO programme, and my own delving into my own issues, form the perfect path towards getting the life I so want.
                Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life... And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary.

                Steve Jobs, Stanford Commencement Adress, 2005

                Comment

                  #53
                  Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

                  p.s. thanks for the link.
                  Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life... And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary.

                  Steve Jobs, Stanford Commencement Adress, 2005

                  Comment

                    #54
                    Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

                    Very interesting discussion. I would venture to say that the MWO folks would have much less negativity to pour on the aa program if it were just offered as an option. When it is shoved down your throat and it isn't for you, it gets in the way of real healing. That, to me is the real tragedy. Anyone who has spent a single minute being unhappy because of the AA browbeating or guilt-trips who MIGHT HAVE been happier and more successful with another approach such as this one has been done a great disservice. That's where the venom in our comments comes from - the pain and suffering inflicted on someone who needed a helping hand. Beyond cruel, really.

                    So, I'm not sure who said it first on this thread, but I agree and I wish there were more and easier ways to find this program or other alternatives. I think of all the emotional energy I wasted (and booze I consumed) because I didn't know that my anxiety was treatable. In that case, too, my ignorance was only part of the problem. Silly advice from folks who might have helped - including Dr's - actually kept me from finding what I really needed. For me its a simple medication that completely treats my condition. Every moment I suffered in ignorance motivates me to spread the word and rage against ignorance and folk remedies. At least a dozon people on MWO BTW contacted me to make sure that I had looked into anxiety meds in the first few weeks I was on the boards. That's how this community works. Enlighted and informed is way better (not to mention longer lasting) than frightened, helpless and ashamed.

                    I haven't yet cracked my MWO CD's but I am on to another set that are simply amazing. In the very first session, it talks about the idea of choosing health vs. surrenduring. So empowering and motivating. Later, she does "parts therapy" which is a cutsy name, but a sensible approach. 'parts' of your brain know what the right things to eat drink and do are and want the healthy options. Other 'parts' are telling you to hit the bottle. She helps you to sort of get in touch with the good parts and acknowledge, but not give in to the bad parts. Really contrary to the idea of labeling a whole person with one label: alcoholic.

                    Have a great day and remember that it is you who can make it great.

                    Cheers,
                    Dave

                    Comment

                      #55
                      Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

                      After reading all these posts, i just find that a lot of the people who join MWO tend to be free thinkers. Free willed people as well.
                      doesn't seem like we are willing to give ourselves up to a higher being so that we can be saved.

                      maybe that is why AA doesn't work for us. We know there are better ways to become healthy again.
                      You can't turn a pickle into a cucumber

                      Comment

                        #56
                        Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

                        Dave and Trixie, those last two posts sum it up very well. Thank you for that.

                        Dave, you put it so much better than I have been trying to do, thanks so much.

                        What are the amazing CDs? (I use the MWO ones religiously, but I don't think they do much more than relax me-- which is good, but...)

                        Yes Trixie, free thinking, free willed-- it's a curse and a blessing.
                        Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life... And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary.

                        Steve Jobs, Stanford Commencement Adress, 2005

                        Comment

                          #57
                          Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

                          i gave dave my wendi.com cds to try. i love wendi and everything she does. i will say doing hypno cds is not easy. creating them that is and she does an amazing job........ so now dave is a convert too
                          :welcome:

                          Comment

                            #58
                            Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

                            so, it's wendi, then?
                            Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life... And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary.

                            Steve Jobs, Stanford Commencement Adress, 2005

                            Comment

                              #59
                              Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

                              I echo Beatle's question: Dave, is it the Wendi hypno tapes? Your post majorly intrigued me, too.

                              TIA.

                              HopefulNow
                              Taking it all in

                              Comment

                                #60
                                Why AA Does Not Work Gets In The Way

                                [ame=
                                ]YouTube - 12 steps programs 1[/ame]

                                [ame=
                                ]YouTube - 12 steps programs 2[/ame]

                                [ame=
                                ]YouTube - 12 steps programs 3[/ame]

                                The above links are three parts to a half hour program that Penn and Teller did concerning 12 step recovery programs.

                                This program explains a hell of a lot and there are a lot of interviews and a quick one on one debate included.
                                Has anyone hears of SOS?.

                                The Hippie
                                xx
                                "Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children." Kahlil Gibran
                                Clean and sober 25th January 2009

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