Frustrated by Closed Minded People

[Not Happy Hour-Happy Life]

Frustrated by Closed Minded People

Patty, My two oldest kids are girls- ages 17 and 20. When I decided to "stop drinking", I only told my husband, because if I "failed", I didn't want my 17 year old throwing it in my face. BTW, she has (rightfully) accused me of being drunk while her friends were over. Well, this past Christmas, I didn't open the usual Merlot (Smoking Loon); instead, it was a nasty Alcohol Free White Zin. My 17 year old~ yes, the same beautiful baby that was pissed off that I was DRUNK on a Friday night when her friends showed up at 10:30 pm~ she DEMANDED to know where was the "REAL STUFF????". I didn't take the bait.
My older daughter was away at college when I stopped drinking, but she noticed over the holidays that I wasn't doing the nightly tanking. :toasted: She didn't say anything to me, because she (told me later) that she didn't know what to say. After a week or so, I told her that I wanted to detox for a while- she hugged me and told me how proud of me she was. Over New Years, my youngest complained to her older sister that I was becoming a party pooper because I didn't open the REAL CHAMPAGNE, but only had the Sparkling Apple crap. Big sis set little sis "straight". I don't know how old your daughter is, but maybe she's trying to fight the old arguments by resorting to the same old/same old- after all, she's had years of practice throwing those darts, right? I, too, was hurt that my 17 year old wasn't my first cheerleader (but maybe she didn't think I'd stick with it?).

Anyway, I can't worry about what others think right now- I just have to lead by example for all 4 of my kids. I chose not to go to AA for the same reasons others have said: I don't want the public humiliation of unexpectedly sitting next to my son's fourth grade teacher, or the checkout lady at the grocery store... so that later, we'll have our secret wink to acknowledge our mutual secret. (Or, if I go to an AA meeting and then later decide I can moderate and have an occasional beer, I don't want to be judged as someone who FELL OFF THE WAGON!) That's just me- for some, AA does work. Cool beans. Maybe I'll be moderating in 30 days, maybe I'll be alcohol free- who knows? What I do know, is that I'll stay here and figure out my way to love my life. :heart:

So, welcome, Patty and congrats on the 5 days.:h Stay with us!

Patty

[FinallyRN]

Frustrated by Closed Minded People

I see you've only been her at MWO since Dec.......is that right? It might be a little too soon for your family to realize that changes have been made. BTW, congratulations on 5 days!
If the pattern of Af continues they'll see.
AS for AA, been there, done that, and I'm here anyway.
Good luck

[PJ]

Frustrated by Closed Minded People

Thanks so much for the support! This site is the BEST!

Yes RN, I joined MWO in Dec after spending a few months researching various holistic approaches. By the time I got here, I had concocted a supplement regimen that closely resembles the MWO recommendations and I'd been with MM for about a month. I've recently refined it further by adding omega-3, a bee pollen complex, and relora, digestive enzymes, and an acidophilis/bifidophiles complex.

Meanwhile, I had a productive talk with my 18-year old this morning! I think the argument on Sunday had more to to with her getting arrested for assault Friday night while in a drunken stupor. She's now got four court dates coming up in as many weeks, and I think she's mostly scared (she's never been in any kind of trouble until very recently). She knows she's out of control now and is looking to pass blame rather than take responsibility. At the time of the argument, she challenged me to "quit cold turkey" with her. When I told her my goal was moderation, she became indignant.

So... this morning I talked to her about doing a 30-day with me. I reiterated my goals and invited her to consider a realistic sobriety plan for herself that focuses on harm reduction and legal responsibility as opposed to rigid life-long abstinance. She seemed receptive. Yea!

[Sh3LLz]

Frustrated by Closed Minded People

PJ, Congratulations on doing so well! I think most people expect us to fail. Its like once they accept us as "drunks" they only want to deal with us that way. My NEVER noticed or even mentioned when i would go AF for long periods of time. No appreciation or even a mention of it..

And then its like 1 drink and they assume youve been hitting the bottle again. Hopefully it will get better, but in the mean time congratulate YOURSELF for doing so well!

[Thankful]

Frustrated by Closed Minded People

PJ, well done. That's so aweome that you and your daughter have cleared the air. Is your daughter willing to follow MWO or does she have her own plan? Does she take supps? Just wondering what her "game plan" might be.

I wish nothing but the very best for the both of you. Keep up the great work. Keep us posted.

Love, Me
:l

[PJ]

Frustrated by Closed Minded People

Tks Thankful,

So far... my daughter is only receptive to the guidelines of MM style moderation. Last night I talked to her at length about the dictionary definition of "Sobriety" (moderation OR abstinance), vs the prevailing social/medical opinion (toal abstinance).

Then we talked about the 1st Ammendment Constitutional right to decline 12-step programs in favor of a viable alternative (as ruled by the Supreme Court - see orange-papers.com, and I could quote others...) We also talked about coersion in the treatment community (under the guise of accusing the patient of "being in denial") as a method of forcing the One-Size-Fits-All treatment protocals - that, by the way, have a dismal success rate (3-5%) in substance abuse patients as compared to substance dependant patients (27-42%).

So, when she brought up our structured Harm Reduction plan, at her therapist appointment, the counselor predictably tried to push AA and total abstinance as the ONLY acceptable solution! Uggggggh! The professionals are SOOOOOO brainwashed!

[Thankful]

Frustrated by Closed Minded People

Little confused, hun. Sounds like since she got into trouble, you've been blamed for her actions. Now your method of quiting (which has been working for you) is not good enough for anybody else, because she is told that she needs AA.(?) And because she needs AA she is telling you that you do too.(?) This is not a healthy way for her to handle any of this. And it's a bit selfish to bring you down when you are doing so well. She tells you that you need AA and now she wants you to get her out of it with the courts?? Also, just a guess, but is her counselor court or state appointed? Does she have medical coverage to seek another counselor of her own choosing?

Here's the biggie....Does your daughter want help for her problem drinking or is she just trying to satisfy the courts? This is a slippery slope.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. Gee, I asked a lot of questions! Nosy little thing, aren't I? Oops another ques.

I just want to understand, so I don't say something stupid. If not already :H . I really do care.

Love, Me
:l

[PJ]

Frustrated by Closed Minded People

Hey Thankful, great questions! Let's see; yes, yes, sortof, no...(just kidding)

She has gotten into a lot of trouble lately, and knows she has to make better decisions. She's sort of started looking at the fence (as opposed to straddling the fence) about whether or not she needs professional help or she can do it by herself. And even if she does reach out, she's doesn't like the idea of AA groups.

Meanwhile, she's scared that it's too late for her to have any say about whether or not, and what kind of treatment she ends up getting. This part is quickly becoming more true than not. When she goes to court, she's likely to be sentenced into state sactioned treatment.

The couselor is not court appointed, luckily. But she is the only person so far that my daughter has agreed to open up to. So... inspite of the therapists AA-only mentality, that both me and my daughter are oposed to, over all she's providing more theraputic good than not.

As for everything else, I'm mostly venting that the professionals who do so much good in so many ways and have such compassion for their patient's wellbeing can be so closed-minded and obstinant about this point.

[nancy]

Frustrated by Closed Minded People

I really think AA is outdated and I don't think it is an appropriate program for all problem drinkers.

This really became clear to me when I looked at the Overeaters Anonymous site, which is modeled after AA. There is nothing about nutrition or biology there, just a spiritual premise. So the program is based on something that was written before evidence about nutrition and effect on mood was even known.

Addictions seem to be fuelled by the same source. If it wasn't booze it would be something else. The AA explanation of what alcoholism is strikes me as ridiculous.