Day 31 and Beyond: Hello, I'm a non-drinker

[Captnjack]

Day 31 and Beyond: Hello, I'm a non-drinker

Never Kate why would I be offended..you are all the best that makes this place.... you get it !!!!!!!! I'm the little dog chipp'in at your heals so to speak I love you!!!!!! thanks for your thoughts you make this site so worth it even though it drives you crazy some times you still persist I admire that !!!! assholes like me feel like giving up..... you keep trying to help newbies and oldies alike..... Kate your a gem never leave this place this place needs you so much.
Love always Cap

[ready2change]

Day 31 and Beyond: Hello, I'm a non-drinker

Okay..I need to add my 2 cents here. I can appreciate all of you who have been so fortunate to have finally "gotten" it with regards to sobriety.

I have been on this site for about a year, and have learned A LOT in that time. I strive for sobriety and have had lots of AF days, but I have not "gotten" it yet. I'm not sure who your dogging here in particular, but I see alot of you offering constant support and hugs to people like Cindi and Cowgal who struggle continually, who want to be AF but are also unable. Do you consciously pick who you will support in there quest to be AF, while the rest of us snivellers are cast aside, because your annoyed that we are here at a site for those of us with a drinking problem?

MWO processes and recommendations aside, because many of you have used few to none of these tools to achieve sobriety, this is a place some come here just to vent thier frustrations and frailties. When a group such as yourself starts losing your patience and compassion for them, where are they to go? I see MANY since I joined subscribers that are long term members who are still not AF, even though that is what they aspire to be.

So, again, I commend you for your fortitude with regards to your sobriety, it is something to be proud of. But please have patience with those of us less fortunate, who truly stuggle daily with this battle. And I agree wholeheartedly, we drink as our choice, no excuses....and I believe strongly in tough love, but I also believe this should be a safe place for everyone...regardless of where they are at in their journey.

R2C

[Determinator]

Day 31 and Beyond: Hello, I'm a non-drinker

Ready2change, Captjack and others voicing concerns over being left behind...please know that will never happen as long as I'm still alive and kicking.

I came on here in October of 2006 in an extremely delicate, fragile, confused, and generally screwed up mindframe. Even a year into my journey I fell down VERY hard many times. There were sometimes that I needed a kick in the pants, and sometimes that I needed a loving "cyber hug". and let me say both were very appreciated. relationships are complicated at the best of times. We are dealing with a really complex health issue, and doing so over a non-verbal medium. Lets cut each and everyone a good margin of slack...this is NOT going to be perfect.

all for one and one for all

[KateH1]

Day 31 and Beyond: Hello, I'm a non-drinker

Hey Capt....NO! I do not think you are an asshole, not at all!! I am glad you are here....you are forthright and honest and finding your way. Thank you fo understanding what I am trying to say here. I have not ever and will never, loose my patience, not my compassion for anyone that is dealing with the issue or disease, whatever we want to call it...of alcohol abuse. I have my way that I go about thinking and posting, others have theirs. We are all free to choose, what we post and what we read. My only point here is, to give some "other thoughts" other than......."keep doing what you are doing and it will all be ok"......I simply do not believe that, nor will I ever say that!......With that being said, I will always support you, and anyone that I am able to.

To R2C,
To you I will just add this. I did, use everything that MWO had to offer to get sober, with the exception of the Rx. I also believe that this site needs to be safe for all. Including those of us that think differently from some of the crowd. As you know, Subcribers does not mean sober....I accept that and everyone there regardless. We all choose for ourselves which path we take. I have taken this path and any who care to join me, in this path OK, anyone else, OK too, no judgment....but also no pity. Pity is a destroyer of the soul. I will not give anyone justification to drink, I do this, because I truly care about everyone. I also care about continuing the work that it takes to stay sober for myself and others!

Remember, a safe place for all, means, all opinions, not just the liberal opinions on drinking!

Best,
Kate

[Beck]

Day 31 and Beyond: Hello, I'm a non-drinker

Liv and Kate, thanks for your honesty. I have my moments when I think I am way more "wobbly" than I should be. If there is one thing that I have learned here that helps me stay on my AF path it is to ignore the voice in my head - it just keeps trying to lead me back to AL. In my heart I know remaining AF is my best choice.

LVT, I know you are having a tough time. It must be difficult dealing with a drinking spouse. I hope you find that middle ground - seems that spending time with him not drinking would be an option. Take care of yourself first. (My husb is not a drinker but he is still having difficulty dealing with non-drinking me and it has strained our marriage.)

All the best,

[A Work in Progress]

Day 31 and Beyond: Hello, I'm a non-drinker

Liv, that was a GREAT POST... such an excellent example of how our minds work, and how to engage in clear thinking in the midst of a difficult situation. A big part of this, I believe, is about PAYING ATTENTION to what is happening in our minds and hearts... and that helps to give us freedom to make wise choices, instead of just getting carried away by our impulses...

wip

[livingfree]

Day 31 and Beyond: Hello, I'm a non-drinker

A Work in Progress;376805 wrote: A big part of this, I believe, is about PAYING ATTENTION to what is happening in our minds and hearts... and that helps to give us freedom to make wise choices, instead of just getting carried away by our impulses...

wip

I love that thanks Wip!!

R2C -- I have somethings I'd like to say ... but my Mother taught me if you can't say something constructive -- don't say anything at all ... so until I collect my thoughts ................... :scratchinhead: ?????????????????????

[wonderworld]

Day 31 and Beyond: Hello, I'm a non-drinker

Freakin' A that post was awesome Liv. AND I HEAR YOU LOUD AND CLEAR!!!!!!

I was in a drinking situation last night - and it WAS weird to get a wiiff of the wine and see the bottles flying around. And yup - there was a SPLIT SECOND impulse toward the bottle - it was like a direct shot from the wiff to my brain - but WEE - WAW!!! Sorry AL! U-Turn! beep beep beep! chug chug chug chugging along on the AF train. And I tell you it WAS NOT long til I was feeling the glow - the gratitude, the clean conscience, the self trust, the joy of effortless self care. When it comes to Al - that is the habit. That is the norm. And it was also not long before certain people looked ..... kind of stinky. They started slurring their words and their breath got all wine-ey and I could almost feel the oncoming hangover from just sitting there. And I knew I would be going home to bed all sweet and sober and wake up fresh as a daisy. Which I did . And nobody gave 2 shits that I wasn't drinking. In fact, I think most of them assumed I was, though there was only club soda in my glass.

And LVT, I feel you :l. As a non-drinker, I don't like hanging out with people drinking all the time. Besides the fact that I'm abstaining, when people drink they get into a whole different "head". If you're not drinking, you're not in the same reality and that kinda sucks. My Mom and I were just talking about this. She just got back from a vacation where she was with a group of hard core boozers. It was a nightmare for her because she doesn't party like that, so she was kind of alone on her own wave length. Including for day-after activities. There was alot of "the hair of the dog" at lunch and things would get rolling all over again. She could have used a sober buddy :l.

Is hubby open at all to discussing the issue? Is there a possibility of increasing the amount of sober time together? (and do you want to ? )

I need to read more.... the thread's a hoppin'!!

WW xox

[ready2change]

Day 31 and Beyond: Hello, I'm a non-drinker

Liv...I'm really suprised by you post. I thought I was being genuine. I guess I don't fit in with the group on this thread and I apologize for offending anyone. It just felt like you guys were ganging up on some newbies because you have found sobriety and they have not.

Again, I will refrain from reading this thread as I was not trying to get you guys riled up. Just adding my thoughts, I thought that was what we were here for. As I stated, I haven't made it where most of you have and I take full responsibility for that. See you round the boards. I am really saddened how divided this site has become.

R2C

[wonderworld]

Day 31 and Beyond: Hello, I'm a non-drinker

This thread has ONE AND ONLY RULE R2C. No drama.

If any one wants to respond to R2C's comments directly (personally), please do so in a pm.
And R2C - you can pm me anytime too with any and all frustrations! I'm happy to listen.....

Thank You!

[Thankful]

Day 31 and Beyond: Hello, I'm a non-drinker

Wow, fantastic posts from EVERYBODY!

What a debate we got here, eh? Love it!

Well, all who really know me know that I am Queen of Tough Love. I have gotten into more trouble since I have been here because of this. But what really pisses me off about that is that people always hone in on the word ?tough? and completely skip the word ?love?. I think I have been there many times to lend a ?shoulder? so to speak. But somehow I still manage to get bull from some people. I just got a PM a few days ago because someone thought I gave really bad advice to someone asking about moderation. I was a bit floored to be honest with you, but I posted again on the thread in question to apologize if I hurt anyone?s feelings. The more time I have had to think about this, and with the support I received in chat the other night, leads me to feel that I had nothing to apologize for in the first place. But I do try to take the high road. FYI, the thread is in Monthly Mods - ?New to this forum - have a question?. Maybe that was my mistake, I guess I shouldn?t be posting the Moderation forums!

But what really gets me, is why are so many people resentful of long term AFers? Does anyone else pick up on that feeling? I feel that way sometimes. So many people have that attitude that if we are AF, it simply must have been easy for us. WRONG!!!! It was a resentful rude comment that sent our darling Satori packing. Some comments out there I think cross the line sometimes.

When I first got here, I hung on the words of the long term AFers! If Satori or Bear posted I couldn?t reach for my mouse fast enough to see what new wisdom they had to share. I never once felt resentful and would never dream of saying something ?snippy? and rude because someone else was able to find sobriety before me. If people who drink are pissed by what an AFer posts, then I feel they really don?t want to quit. It?s almost like the truth hurts. If you really want to quit, don?t you want to read how others accomplished that? Am I wrong here?

As far as supporting some members and not others, I try to support everyone, until it gets to the point that I know there is nothing more I can say to certain individuals. If no matter what sort of advise you give, someone always comes back with a negative comment about how they don?t want to do this or they don?t want to do that, I get to the point where I feel their needs are beyond what I can help with. Many people here claim they like the versatility of this program. But then they state that the program doesn?t work for them. Well, isn?t that a little unfair if they are only picking the parts that they want to do? Seriously, many will follow some parts, but don?t want to exercise. Some will take Topa or another med, but don?t want to take all the supplements. They don?t want to change their day to day habits. It?s always something. And that?s fine. But don?t be upset if the program didn?t work and don?t be upset because others did achieve success. I never followed the whole program, but thankfully I didn?t need to. It wasn?t cause I didn?t want to, it was a financial problem for me. But I refused to let my finances stand in the way. I would not allow myself excuses! And damn it, that certainly doesn?t mean that is was easier for me!

I truly am sorry that so many still struggle and I am not saying all people who are still struggling don?t want to put in the work. But there are many out there that come right out and admit there is certain things they don?t want to do. But what else can someone do other than speak of their own experiences and recommend the program? If people don?t want to hear it than we have to move on and hope that we can help the next person and simply pray that everyone with this horrible addiction one day ?gets it?.

Love, Me
:l

[wonderworld]

Day 31 and Beyond: Hello, I'm a non-drinker

AND........ bigmouth here has 2 more cents. I am not comfortable being lumped in with the group as far as my opinions about other members or what my MWO program of recovery has been. I don't always agree with what's being said when I get lumped into a "we" statement attributed to the founding group on this thread. Sometimes I see things quite differently ! - so no more "Royal We", okay ?!?! :H

Denial is the most deadly aspect of alcohol dependence, is it not? For myself, I have a great deal of humility about these months of sobriety and i don't feel like it's taken alot of work, to tell you the truth. Not once I got past about 60 days. While I can surely give myself credit for fighting my way out of AL's grip , I know that there is an 'x' factor too. And that I AM very fortunate somehow. And that not everyone is supposed to be where I am. And that it's also because I tried as many times as I needed to before this one. The tools I used early on: the book, kudzu, Lglut and this board. Now, it's ....... this board ! :H I'm back to living a healthy lifestyle, so exercise and supps are just part of that.

This board will never be drama free nor will the majority of its members get a grip on their AL issue right away. And many never will. That's how it is. Alcohol dependence = insanity. I don't have to tap into that if I don't want to!

WW xox

[wonderworld]

Day 31 and Beyond: Hello, I'm a non-drinker

Thankful I think people are resentful of long term abstainers because they are: upset, frustrated, angry (usually at themselves), jealous and scared. Or some combination of those (and are usually drinking when they post that stuff). And you can tell the members who are fighting for sobriety and the ones who are not. I don't "argue" with those that I can tell want to keep drinking (even when they say they don't). To argue with someone's dishonesty in THEMSELVES is, well, energy wasted. If they KNEW they would KNOW, you know?

I fight with the fighters because they're in the game - and that's not the majority here . I can't help someone sitting on the sidelines. When I was fighting for my 30 days, I DID use every tool that fit. And I would have kept trying new ones until something clicked. And I came on here and screamed for help when I wanted a drink. I put all of MWO between me and the bottle. It was a huge fight those first 30 days. And I wanted them BAD. And the people that responded when I reached out for help were like me - serious about AF. And I relied on them heavily. I am available to anyone in the same way.

WW xox

[Thankful]

Day 31 and Beyond: Hello, I'm a non-drinker

Originally posted by me...

Wow, fantastic posts from EVERYBODY!

What a debate we got here, eh? Love it!

Well, in light of additional posts that I was not aware of, the comments above are not appropriate. I thought I was posting directly after WIP at 5:00PM. All the posts that followed, I was unaware of as I was typing out my response. So I hope no one thinks I was being disrespectful.

eace:As much as I respect the die hard rule of "No Drama", I do feel the response below would behoove everyone now involved. Only because I hope it shines light on the situation in a positive way and not to add fuel.

R2C ~ You became a dear friend to me when I first got here, so I hope you know my response comes from that friendship. So with that said, I would hope that you would reconsider your thoughts that members pick and choose which members to support and which members to "cast aside". The members you mention who receive a great deal of support start a great deal of threads. Those who don't start a thread will not get the same amount of support because it simply is a numbers game and not a popularity contest as you insinuate. Threads get the supporters moving. :see:

You admit that you have been here over a year, but since your new log on name you have started only 2 threads and one is asking about Cindi.

If you feel unsupported, I can only encourage you to share more about yourself. If you are having a rough moment struggling with AL or your having a bad day in general, start a thread. Wave a flag and say that you need some help. Give people a chance to be supportive. Please don't just assume that they are not.

Love, Me
:l

[wonderworld]

Day 31 and Beyond: Hello, I'm a non-drinker

No Thankful! I have to go back and re-phrase that. What I meant was, that if anyone felt the urge to, you know, respond DIRECTLY to (or "at") R2C personally, that I felt it should be in a pm. There were some new faces on here and I was worried about something flaring up because they might not know.....

This thread can handle a rousing philosophical debate for sure!!! With grace and elegance - oh yes!


Love WW xox