Day 31 and Beyond: Hello, I'm a non-drinker

[Determinator]

Day 31 and Beyond: Hello, I'm a non-drinker

Kate, you sweetie heart....you've put me on quite a pedestal...next time I'm in chat I'd better wear a helmet!

feeling pretty dopey tonight...doc put me on Xyzal for allergies and I feel like I've taken a valium.

[KateH1]

Day 31 and Beyond: Hello, I'm a non-drinker

Honestly Det, you have earned my respect by the way you handle chat! Chat can so often be a slippery slope! It takes an astute diplomat to keep things calm and yet active at the same time! Go Det!!

Back to talks about living as non-drinkers, in reading through the boards, particularly lately, many are trying various drugs in order to stop.......seems like more than ever. I never took the drugs, I decided to try this with only the supps and to see how that went before taking the next step if I felt it was neccessary. So, I have no experience in the area of taking the drugs. I am all for doing whatever is healthy to support stopping alcohol!

But, here is my observation and my question. It seems to me that drugs such as antibuse, in particular are wonderful to force one to just not drink.......but, it is not a life long solution to this complicated issue of living happily as a non-drinker. To me, the key after stopping drinking, was working on my mind! The other was working on creating optimum health. It often seems like many here, when struggling, up the dosage of meds or search for new meds.........but this makes me wonder if there is other "work" going on with these people? By work I mean, are they seeking out ways of changing their thinking and their lives in such a way, that living as non-drinkers becomes their way of life without the meds? Det, I know that you have experience with this. I know that you have had great success......and it seems quite obvious that you have changed many things and have been able to move on from taking the antibuse.

Thanks for all your input!
xxx Kate

[startingover]

Day 31 and Beyond: Hello, I'm a non-drinker

That was a great post Livingfree, and thank you for the information about the key dates. I am just coming up to 2 months and the beastie whispers sometimes. I have managed to tell him to eff off and have upped my arsenal of supplements by getting the Allone. But it is good to know that this is normal and it will pass. I think that is the fear, that we are always going to feel bad. Struggling, depressed, anxious, craving or whatever. That SO isnt the case but when beastie talks it sure as hell feel like it!

Kate, that is an interesting comment about the meds, I don't know much about them either but I find that the psycholigical aspect of "taking something" in my case, supplements (lots) makes me feel I am doing something for myself. Thinking about it, this probably comes through years and years of self medicating with drugs and alcohol. I always just "took something" to deal with any and every emotion. I feel comfortable doing that for now, because it is helping me and I think that as time goes on I am taking steps to change my life (just little steps mind ) I am also on Prozac so with everything I take I rattle but I am a VERY different person to the one I was 8 and a bit weeks ago.

[KateH1]

Day 31 and Beyond: Hello, I'm a non-drinker

I agree Starting Over, in the beginning I started the supps in order to "feel" proactive in taking steps towards my recovery and with experimenting a bit, I do believe that they help enourmously! I feel much stronger both physicly and mentally since taking my health and well being back from AL! I think when we are healthy, it is a natural step to adjust our thinking accordingly. When something works for us, we want to share that information........this is why I always recomend the book and the supps to new members!

I am very curious to know if those taking the "Meds" feel the same compulsion to change there thinking, nutrition and general health as well????? And are they being proactive in other areas of recovery as well as medication???

[A Work in Progress]

Day 31 and Beyond: Hello, I'm a non-drinker

KateH1;400645 wrote: I am very curious to know if those taking the "Meds" feel the same compulsion to change there thinking, nutrition and general health as well????? And are they being proactive in other areas of recovery as well as medication???

That's a great question, Kate... if I were able to do genuine research on this little population we have here, I could get excited about doing a little study on that very question. Impossible to do, really, in this format... the best we could get would be anecdotal responses, which of course are heavily biased and skewed in various ways... I am sure that there are several identifiable groups: one group whose primary, if not only, lifestyle change consists of taking meds; and some folks who do meds plus supplements; some who just do supps; and lots of us who do no meds, but who use a quite a variety and range of other behavioral and mental changes. I would add "using this forum for support, information, and advice" as one of the "other behavioral... changes." And I would certainly hypothesize that those who DO use prescription meds also, as a group, are doing fewer OTHER changes (with the likely exception of supplements). I think that these are the folks who would have the characteristic of an "external locus of control," or difficulty perceiving that the capacity for change resides mostly within themselves.

wip

[livingfree]

Day 31 and Beyond: Hello, I'm a non-drinker

Having been 6 weeks AF BEFORE I started the Topa last Feb. - I can honestly say that the "Anticipation" of hoping the drug was the "cure" I was able to mentally stay off Alcohol knowing the "cure" was in the mail. In reality - the topa was a disaster for me and if I hadn't gotten a serious Kidney infection - I might have been tempted to stay on it. Having the AF time under my belt ultimately was the key to my success. So IMO ... it really is a mental game we play with ourselves. The supplements actually helped my body recover and gave me the "insurance" that I was correcting the damage done in my body. After 8 months AF - I have scaled back on the supps - but as Fall always brings routine back into my life - I'm going to step them up once again.

Interesting question - Thaks

[Determinator]

Day 31 and Beyond: Hello, I'm a non-drinker

I've been taking meds (campral, and citalopram and antabuse) since last march and also supp's through my own research as well as hypno, diet, psychosocial therapy (being here
so I guess 'my way out' was a shotgun approach. just do any and everything to slay the beast.
I've always been interested in health and especially alternative healing, so that has encouraged me to maintain that aspect in my life.

and without further ado: Aloha Friday!!!!!!!!!

everybody have a kickass sober heck of a weekend Woooooooooo! Wooooooooooooo!

[momof3]

Day 31 and Beyond: Hello, I'm a non-drinker

Hi All,

I've been AF for over 4 months. I have read this thread from start to finish and I so appreciate folks commitment to being AF. My commitment to being AF is strong...I don't want to go back to where I was before. However, I do feel that I am "whiteknuckling" it more than I can bear sometimes. I would appreciate any and all advice on how to do this differently. Kate, you mentioned living your life differently? I'm curious about what you specifically you have changed. You also talked about Brit's experience with doing it differently this time. I am doing supplements, exercising, trying to eat well, etc., but it's still hard. My ear's are open to everyone's wisdom.
mof3

[Determinator]

Day 31 and Beyond: Hello, I'm a non-drinker

Momof3, first off congrats on some great AF time!

does this feeling of whiteknuckling seem present all the time or does it feel like a phase that has recently come up? I had a really hard couple of weeks around the 5 month mark and was getting frustrated but it simply passed. Just trying to help diagnose here.

[livingfree]

Day 31 and Beyond: Hello, I'm a non-drinker

MOM of 3 -- Big congrats on the 4 months! When I hit 4 months I hit a "low". I felt depressed that I wasn't giddy about being AF. Just walk though it. Meaning - keep making it your TOP priority each day.

Second - your body may need additional supplements to re- balance. There is a GREAT book I read "End your addiction Now" (find it on Amazon) that gives the amino acid supplements you need, and how much to re-balance your body. (Keep up your MWO supps but these really fine tune things). I was so obsessed with getting it right that I took all of them for about 2 months .. just in case! The book gives case studies where people who had stopped drinking for a year ... still felt they were whiteknuckling it. when they added the additional amino acids - within a couple of weeks they felt 100% better. It was about the time I had been on them for 3 weeks that I felt the 'shift'. I posted a number of times about it - but that has been 4 months ago - so I don't know if a person can pull that far back.

Let me know if you want more info about the book - and I can get more info for you. Hang in here - I know we all can help you get the tools you need to make the "shift".

Kate is right about - "re-thinking" your way of living. For me ... the other books that really helped me "Rational Recovery" & "Sober for life" are my top picks. I also did the Landmark education classes - HUGE mind shift in the way I think. They are located in major cities - you can look them up on line at Landmark Education: Seminars, Courses & Landmark Forum

Let me know if you need anything. We pull and push each other along this path were all on as sometimes we are strong and sometimes we are weak! As long as we have each other - we CAN all make it!!

Love to you!

[Determinator]

Day 31 and Beyond: Hello, I'm a non-drinker

reason # 4 to not drink at work:
[ame=

]YouTube - Swedish Game Show Host Vomits Live On Air[/ame]

[momof3]

Day 31 and Beyond: Hello, I'm a non-drinker

Det, Liv, Thanks for getting back to me.

Det, The cravings I'm experiencing have definitely been worse the past few weeks. I think part of it is how much I associate summer with drinking (beach vacations, visiting friends who drink but don't abuse it). Also, I'm struggling with my marriage and working on trying to stay together--we have 3 children at home. Sobriety really makes you look at your issues straight on...not an easy task. I do feel depressed too...would prefer not to go on AD since I have been on them before and experienced so many side effects.

Liv, I will look up the books you mentioned. I have always thought that there is some imbalance that needs to be corrected. I have also read "Seven Weeks to Sobriety" that has a very extensive supplement program to correct damage from alcohol, reduce cravings, etc. I was thinking of doing their supplement protocol.

Your suggestion on Landmark is a good one too. I do think that there is a spiritual element missing in my life. I feel like I give out so much but don't have any way of rejuvenating myself.

PLease keep sending me your thoughts...I am a sponge. It feels good to be here.:h

[A Work in Progress]

Day 31 and Beyond: Hello, I'm a non-drinker

Hi Mom3, I've been thinking about your post, mostly as to the "mind game" and spiritual aspects of recovery. One thing that can make "recovery" or commitment to an AF life difficult (white-knuckling) is that we can slip into a way of thinking about it that is focused on what we are missing, instead of what we are getting, out of getting rid of the alcohol. At first, it feels great to be rid of the stuff, to be feeling better physically, more emotional stability, more mental clarity... but then, what? What do we DO with these gifts? I am one who believes that if we stay in our OTHER old ruts, habits-of-living, habits-of-thinking, only getting rid of the one "bad habit" or "bad substance," then we are at risk of saying "oh well, what the hell" and picking up another drink. I did that, after 3 years AF. Did it again, after other periods of a year or so AF.

This time I am keeping a much closer focus on spirituality. Two books I strongly recommend are: Mindful Recovery and The Tao of Sobriety.

Also, I work on remembering that mental habits are just like any other habit; they are actually behaviors that can be changed. We can learn to get into the habit of noticing that we have been day-dreaming or thinking about how much we would like to have a drink, or how much we deserve a drink due to a stressful life, or how unfair it is that others can drink, or how empty our lives might seem... and then make the mental effort (over and over again) to shift attention to something else, something as simple as looking at the sky, or focusing on the physical sensations of breathing, or the sounds that I can hear in my environment, right now.

best wishes,

wip

[brittzak]

Day 31 and Beyond: Hello, I'm a non-drinker

I am going to purchase those books. You do have to adjust your thinking. I have noticed I am very irritable lately. I am not sleeping much at all either. I have never tried the CD's but I am thinking may be I should, to help me relax. I do not want to be the bitter ol' dry drunk.

[wonderworld]

Day 31 and Beyond: Hello, I'm a non-drinker

I just happened to come across this online...... whoa........ made me think of some of the conversations here.......

......................


Seattle Times, June 17, 2000

Alcohol-abstinence critic accused of DUI in fatal I-90 crash

Dave Birkland and Anne Koch



The founder of a national movement that says problem drinkers can drink in moderation is accused of being drunk when the pickup she was driving the wrong way on Interstate 90 near Cle Elum crashed head-on into a second vehicle, killing a man and his 12-year-old daughter.

Audrey Kishline, 43, of Woodinville has been charged by the Kittitas County Prosecutor's office with two counts of vehicular homicide in the March 25 crash that killed a Grandview, Yakima County, man, Richard Davis, and his daughter, LaSchell.

Kishline, author of the book "Moderate Drinking," had a blood alcohol content of 0.26, more than three times the legal limit in Washington.

According to literature from Moderation Management, two of the group's tenets are "never drive while under the influence of alcohol" and "do not drink in a situation that would endanger yourself or others."

The accident and the subsequent intensive alcohol treatment she has undergone have made Kishline realize that "moderation management is nothing but alcoholics covering up their problem," her Seattle lawyer, John Crowley, said yesterday.

Crowley said his client is "extremely remorseful" and carries the photos of the two victims with her. Kishline is receiving substance-abuse treatment at a facility in Western Oregon.

Crowley declined to say where his client was receiving treatment.

Kishline is accused of driving "while under the influence of intoxicating liquor," according to Kittitas County Deputy Prosecutor Margaret Sowards.

Davis, 38, an electrician who worked in Bellevue, was killed outright in the 6 p.m. crash. His daughter died a short time later at the crash scene 16 miles west of Cle Elum, according to the State Patrol.

Kishline also was charged with hit-and-run driving, accused of forcing another vehicle off the interstate before the fatal crash, Sowards said.

Kishline, who was driving west in the eastbound lanes, suffered facial and chest injuries and was flown to Harborview Medical Center in Seattle where she was hospitalized for five days, according to hospital records.

....................


holy crap.

ww xox