For long-term AFers...

[Shikakai]

Over the last couple of days I've read posts by people who have been sober 30 days, 60 days and maybe 82 days and then they "fell".

What happens at day 82 that tells an AFer that they can moderate? For me it's always been a "little voice" in the back of my brain telling me I can handle that one drink. Do you all hear a "voice" too telling you the same thing?

What makes you think you are cured? I'm trying to understand what triggers any of us into thinking we can handle ONE drink, especially if you're AF for such a long period of time?

I've heard that "voice" repeatedly and the results have always been the same... one drinks turns into too many. My love of alcohol plus continuous bad habits keep me drinking, and I know that. What makes you all continue to drink and/or crave the liquid?

I can't remember who said that Satan is the biggest deceiver the world has ever known, but unless Satan is synonymous with alcohol, I will have to respectfully disagree.

For me, alcohol has been the biggest deceiver MY WORLD has ever known...

Good luck to the people who have fallen recently. I hope you can try again and be successful. My struggle continues. I didn't drink yesterday, and was in a foul mood all 24 hours.

[KateH1]

For long-term AFers...

Honestly, I think the deception and the mind games are pretty much the same, whether we had our last drink yesterday or six months ago. Once we allow ourselves to be "tricked" into believing that we can drink just one or two........we will, within a short period of time, go back to our old drinking habits, unless we reel ourselves back in and stop altogether and work on living a non-drinking life style.

I have spoken to several people who are truly long term non-drinkers. The message is always the same, any of us can slip or fall at any time. The trick is, never take the first drink. The first drink is really the killer! It is also about thinking differently. If we allow ourselves to "think about AL", or "think" about not drinking, we will "think" our way right back to the bottle! If we "Try" to go AF.....our "attempts" will surely give in to the bottle. But, if we "commit" to not drinking, change our life and our thoughts to that of a non-drinking lifestyle, we stand a fighting chance!

I do not fool myself. There is no "Cure" in this. If you drink poison, you will get sick. If you recover and drink poison again, you will get sick again! The cure is, don't drink the poison!

KH

[MyHeartIsDrenchedInWine]

For long-term AFers...

I know for me I can have 3 glasses of wine. Somewhere around glass 4 or 5 the wine can take over my brain and I might just keep drinking and drinking, everyone is different though. I've heard cravings can come out of the blue at any time for the rest of one's life. Stay strong girl!

[ZenMetal]

For long-term AFers...

Hmm.... I've been sober for nearly 7 months, and I can honestly say that (based entirely on my own experience) for an alcoholic, there is no such thing as "moderation".

As I say, I can only speak from my own experience - but over the last five years, I have gone up to 90 days AF and then tried to moderate, and crashed and burned within days. It *just doesn't work*.

So, IMHO (and I know it might not be a popular opinion), the *only* way forward is complete abstinence.

Peace & strength,

ZM

[FallenAngel]

For long-term AFers...

KateH1;297303 wrote: Honestly, I think the deception and the mind games are pretty much the same, whether we had our last drink yesterday or six months ago. Once we allow ourselves to be "tricked" into believing that we can drink just one or two........we will, within a short period of time, go back to our old drinking habits, unless we reel ourselves back in and stop altogether and work on living a non-drinking life style.

I have spoken to several people who are truly long term non-drinkers. The message is always the same, any of us can slip or fall at any time. The trick is, never take the first drink. The first drink is really the killer! It is also about thinking differently. If we allow ourselves to "think about AL", or "think" about not drinking, we will "think" our way right back to the bottle! If we "Try" to go AF.....our "attempts" will surely give in to the bottle. But, if we "commit" to not drinking, change our life and our thoughts to that of a non-drinking lifestyle, we stand a fighting chance!

I do not fool myself. There is no "Cure" in this. If you drink poison, you will get sick. If you recover and drink poison again, you will get sick again! The cure is, don't drink the poison!

KH

Excellent post KH! I had to quote it in its entirety because everything you said, rings true.
When I quit smoking, I knew that one puff will lead me to being a full time smoker again... so I pledged N.O.P.E. (Not One Puff Ever). To stay away & refrain from romancing the thought of smoking that first one is what keeps me quit.
The same with AL. As long as I do not take that first drink, the rest will take care of itself.
We will always have to be on guard for Addiction's voice in our head... that is the price we pay for being addicts.... but that does not mean we need to listen!

[trixietrack]

For long-term AFers...

zen metal i think you are right about what you have said. I really do think that people who have never been able to moderate, when alcohol wasn't a problem, can moderate just because they have gone AF for 90 days.

if it has been a negative experience and has affected your life , moderating will be even more difficult.

[hippie37]

For long-term AFers...

Hi Shikakai

I'm glad to say that little voice is getting fainter and fainter in my head. It would be good if we had an internal mute button at such times when it's the ONLY voice we hear wouldn't it?!. A big part of my sobriety is based on acceptance rather than trying to convince myself that I can change and somehow moderate my drinking. When I have thought this in the past I've usually slipped. I've had 2 since 2nd June last year. (I don't normally count days sober but I'm astonished to find out I am 82 days sober today! Spooky you should mention that figure in your post!!!lol).

In the past though I would say it was boredom that played a heavy role for me. I was very stagnant with my sobriety and wasn't really 'living' sober but 'surviving' sober. This then made me very susceptible to handling and coping with 'life' when it wasn't going my way. My first slip was through having to deal with a death in the family and my second was coping with depression over the Xmas period. Both times it was the situation that deceived me into thinking drinking was OK. If I had been actually 'living' sober I think I would of been able to handle things a heck of a lot better and maybe in doing so would not of slipped in the first place.

What I find now though is that I am finally moving forward with my life and becoming a lot less negative about the world in general. Through accepting things i.e. "I am an addict" I can learn to live and be happy with myself through that acceptance and stay sober.

"God grant me the serenity

To accept the things I cannot change,

The courage to change the things I can,

And the wisdom to know the difference."

Love and Happiness
Hippie
xx

[MDBiker]

For long-term AFers...

I agree with Kate. I am a non drinker. Period. I want to share something I posted ont the abs thread. I think it applies here.

Neither ODAT or ?strong decision to quit for good?? were what made it possible for me to quit drinking. I made a strong decision to quit for good every day; or ODAT. EVERY day. It was always easy to quit, but staying quit was impossible for me. It was not until I decided I was going to do whatever it takes to get free of this albatross that I was able to finally let go.

When I reached that point I surrendered everything I thought I was to the realization that I could no longer continue in my Hell of alcoholism. I started calling Dr. I didn?t even know trying to find someone who would help me. I went for counsel with a Church of Christ preacher I had never heard of because he was the only one who could ?see? me. For the first time in my life I started to admit to people how much I was really drinking. I threw myself on the mercy of the system and said, ?I give?.

I finally found a Psychiatrist and he gave me some meds to help and started counseling me. I felt like crap but I was determined to do whatever he told me to do, and I did. I surrendered everything to the fact that I was out of control and was on the verge of dying. The first 30 days were hard. I wondered if I would make it. It took the first two months for me to get the Poisson out of my system and start sleeping (resting) and thinking.

By the 3rd month I was starting to feel civil. But of everything I couldn?t remember about drinking; I couldn?t forget the last time I drank and almost died. Anytime a thought about a drinking comes to mind the next thing in there is my last drunk. I never ever want to be in that position again. My life depends on it.

I am sober now 10 months and I don?t have any cravings at all. I go out with my friends and they drink and I could care less. I am a non-drinker. Period. They respect that and no one ever says anything about it. It has come to be accepted that when ordering for themselves, if they order for me, I get the sparkling water with a twist. I don?t like being around a bunch of drunks anymore, but I enjoy friends who drink normal and accept the new me.

If I were trying to pick out a word to describe why I am able to stay sober and my cravings are gone it would be SURRENDER. Quit trying to control something, which is uncontrollable. Become a new person. Drinking is not an option for me. Nothing is more important than my sobriety. NOTHING. Everything in my life I love and cherish would once again be nothing if I were drunk again. If I have to give up my job, my house, my car, even my wife; I must not drink. If I were to start drinking I would lose them all anyway. This sobriety is the kinder gentler way.

God Bless

bear

I am now 25 days short of a year, and I am loving my life again; and the people who love me are glad to see me back after so many years of deception and despair. I am a non-drinker.
:h
luv you guys

bear

[KateH1]

For long-term AFers...

Wow! Bear!!! Almost a year!!! Well done! Great post!! This is one that I am going to print and save!!I am always inspired by you!!

XXXXX Kate

[Shikakai]

For long-term AFers...

KateH1;297303 wrote: Honestly, I think the deception and the mind games are pretty much the same, whether we had our last drink yesterday or six months ago. Once we allow ourselves to be "tricked" into believing that we can drink just one or two........we will, within a short period of time, go back to our old drinking habits, unless we reel ourselves back in and stop altogether and work on living a non-drinking life style.

I have spoken to several people who are truly long term non-drinkers. The message is always the same, any of us can slip or fall at any time. The trick is, never take the first drink. The first drink is really the killer! It is also about thinking differently. If we allow ourselves to "think about AL", or "think" about not drinking, we will "think" our way right back to the bottle! If we "Try" to go AF.....our "attempts" will surely give in to the bottle. But, if we "commit" to not drinking, change our life and our thoughts to that of a non-drinking lifestyle, we stand a fighting chance!

I do not fool myself. There is no "Cure" in this. If you drink poison, you will get sick. If you recover and drink poison again, you will get sick again! The cure is, don't drink the poison!

KH

Those are my thoughts, too, Kate... I was thinking about it yesterday and it seems that the
deceiver begins with "You can have just ONE drink. It will be okay." Those of you who are on medications/supplements may even feel EMPOWERED that you may be cured or that you can handle one ol' drink... nothing to it.

It is part of a mind game. The alchi has convinced the mind (if that even makes sense) that it can afford just ONE drink, but time has proven that that one drink has led to serious downfalls... I just want to know how can we get rid of this "voice"? It's not like we haven't fallen for the same "one drink" line so we know it's a lie!

I agree with your entire post. Trying not to think about it has hurt us; trying to go AF has hurt us. It seems the more I tried not to think about drinking, the stronger the "voice" got.

[Shikakai]

For long-term AFers...

MyHeartIsDrenchedInWine;297307 wrote: I know for me I can have 3 glasses of wine. Somewhere around glass 4 or 5 the wine can take over my brain and I might just keep drinking and drinking, everyone is different though. I've heard cravings can come out of the blue at any time for the rest of one's life. Stay strong girl!

Yes, with me I discovered not long ago that after that one drink, I would already be drunk... my tolerance level has reached an all-time low... I can barely tolerate one drink anymore, much less two or three and I was backing it up with 5, 6 maybe even 7 VMs just a few months ago... well, you know where THAT'S landed me :upset:

I got to the point that I felt if I just had that ONE drink then I would be alright, but after becoming inebriated after just that ONE, I felt, "What's the point of stopping now... just have another, you're already DRUNK! Why stop?"

So sad...

I'm off to the office. Be back later... AA meeting tonight, too.

[Ripple]

For long-term AFers...

true answer here.

Shikakai~my goal is one year AF. 30 days the brain is said to be reset? Its no different than an aggressive savings plan, you don't touch it until matured? Save it for a rainy day type of idea? I plan to try drink again. Its all a matter of decision and self-discipline, we all know that, but are we all STRONG enough to follow a plan? Yup, I will know if i have organic brain disease when i pick that drink up and probably i do. Its a risk i plan to take posting this today, but i could change my mind by then. :thanks::catroll:

[livingfree]

For long-term AFers...

Wise Thread!

What a great thread Shikakai
You are starting to sound like "you've made up your mind". The song that I have quoted below from the Soundtrack "once" is the song that made the imprint in my brain. Go to i tunes and download it if you have a MP3 player. I know it's suppose to be about a "breakup" between two lovers, but "breaking up" with Alcohol was a "break up" of sorts for me. If you can't get the song - let me know and I'll see if I can get you the lyrics

I found this thread interesting - I am 84 days AF today - so maybe this is my caution sign. I'll take extra care. I KNOW I can not stop at 1 -2 -3. So I am in the group of NONE.

Kate - Words of wisdom. I'm printing and pasting into my favorites! Your name is in there a lot!

Zen - I think "popular opinion" is that most of the people on here can not moderate. It's just that so many of the people on here are drinking more than moderating it is a scary place to say it! I have only seen a handful of people on these threads that I think are successfully moderating - by that I mean - they drink alcohol like they would "eat butter" as RJ says!

Angel - I love your N.O.P.E. - as an X smoker!! How about N.O.S.E. for Not One Sip Ever!

Hippie - 82 days - Awesome - we are heading into the 90's at the same time. I don't know about you but I am really excited!

My Heart In Wine - You my dear may be one of the true Modders! Lucky Lucky you! I've often wondered if I would have stopped earlier if I could have been?! But to late now!

Bear - I cut and pasted this post awhile back. It is in my journal. You give me so much hope. The words:

"Surrender
Become a New Person
Drinking is not an option
& nothing is more important than this (for without it all else fails)" quote by bear
are on the COVER of my journal! I cut and pasted after I read this you wrote on the AB threads. You are amazing to me. I know it has not been easy - but nothing is sweeter than seeing the top of the mountain through the sweat of the effort it took to get there. Those who get dropped off by helicopter don't see the same view!!

Rip - I know you will change your mind before you start drinking again - and if you don't we all want to be standing near in case you have an allergic reaction and need to be rushed into intensive care!

I am learning so much from you all - Thank you

Liv

[5thaday]

For long-term AFers...

Hi Shik,

For me, the classic bullshit excuse I've used for resuming drinking goes as follows. To flesh this out, I'll use an example from my last major AF run of 26 days. I was feeling much healthier, both physically and mentally. I had just been hired at a great new job, so upon walking home from my new office, I said to myself; "You've certainly drank too much in the past. You feel so healthy now, don't start drinking like you did before . . . BUT . . . this time you can be more careful".

Within 2 weeks, I was basically back to my previous levels of drinking. I think that the goal of addictive thinking is structured around convincing us to take that first drink, because once that happens, it's game over. Despite our resolve to quit drinking, we have to realize that ANY internal suggestion that we should put alcohol to our lips is a delusion, at least once we've been consuming the quantities of alcohol both you and I have been consuming in our lifetimes. Just think, after 26 or even 82 days, is it really plausible to assume that we have successfully been cured of an addiction/habit that has consumed most of us for well over a decade?

[TiredofHiding]

For long-term AFers...

Having just learned the hard way that I can't moderate, I am really interested in this thread. I noticed that the voice was gone after about 5 days but after hitting 50-60 days I started hearing it again. I shouldn't have listened. I hope it will go away one day and I think what everyone has said about surrendering and choosing 100% abstinence makes that easier - there's no point in thinking about it or wondering if I can stop at 1 or when I'll be able to moderate if those aren't options anymore.

I have a friend who was on a lot more than just alcohol and has been clean and sober for 14 years now. It's just not an option for her and I am so amazed by her. She still goes to NA to keep her commitment and to give back and help others because there were people there to help her all those years ago.