Choosing to drink or not drink

[nancy]

Just read a book called Rational Steps To Quitting Alcohol, and found it very interesting, particularly what it says about choice, how people actually do have choice.

About AA and the contradictions of the disease theory of alcoholism:
If a disease caused your poor behavior in the past, why would a disease decide to stop doing so now? "Well, because now, knowing I have a Disease, I can take responsibility for my own behavior from here on out." Or "I first have to admit I am powerless over my Disease and that gives me the power to take responsibility and control it now."

These arguments seem illogical to many people. What kind of Disease could make you drink until you find out have it, and then (if only you accept your powerlessness and a Higher Power) will let you take responsibility and control? These arguments seem illogical to many people. What Disease knows you have now made a pact with a Higher Power? The answer is it is a special Disease made up for the occasion and useful in reducing self-blame.

About getting out of control:

Your belief that when you compulsively drink you easily get out of control is prevalent in our culture. This mistaken believe may actually cause you to give away your power and behave irresponsibly. How so? Because it tells you that you aren't responsible for what you do.

Addiction is:
A system of choices in which we may get some good results, but also get more bad results that unfortunately go along with the good results we insist we must have.

Antabuse/for those who think it's just a crutch:
Even a crutch, such as Antabuse, may be a good tool. In truth, if you take Antabuse voluntarily, you will be doing it on your own.

There is a lot more worth reading in this book, esp. for anyone who drinks to relieve bad feelings.

[KateH1]

Choosing to drink or not drink

Great Points Nancy,
In fact, there is , nor has there ever been any medical proof that alcohol is a "disease", the medical communtiy has labeled alcohol abuse a disease so that treatment can be paid for through medical insurance.

Would we label drug abuse "a disease"?
KH

[FloridaBoy]

Choosing to drink or not drink

Disease? Disorder? Genetic? Or are are we just 'different' when it comes to AL? I have never been able to moderate or have a firm grip on AL. Ever. I tried to fit in and be like people that can. I do not know if I am physically addicted. I do know that my life is much better w/o AL. As long as I do not drink I am in control of my life. Once I realized that *I* was not the only one it became much easier to accept. I have told my friends that I have stopped drinking because it was not doing me any good. Most of them thought little of it. Some of them should stop too. Anyone that has an issue with my choice is not a friend.

[Mags]

Choosing to drink or not drink

I cannot and do not drink. Period. I have written many times all over these boards about this, but I personally cannot drink. I know that and have totally accepted it. I am at the point that I have no regrets and have embraced my abstinence as a liberating life style. I haven't given up nearly as much as I have gained.

I don't know if that answered your question or not. That just how I feel personally about the choice to drink or not.

[caseaday]

Choosing to drink or not drink

FloridaBoy...since going AF have you ever (even slightly) mentioned to a friend who is definately drinking way too much that they should consider cutting back? I have had my best friend since I was four years old and we both have been drinking hard since about 16 years old. He has alcoholism running through his family genetics. I told him about my plan to abstain until further notice and he sympathized with me but when I mentioned that he should check out MWO he completely shut down. His response was this "I know how many cases of beer I drink each week, I count them when I throw them in the garbage." He said he drinks because he is bored (he has a wife and two kids). When I said "no you drink because you are addicted" he got pretty pissed.

Boy did I learn a lesson about talking to old boozing buddies about AL! Craziness of the disease/discomfort/crutch/what ever you want to call it!

[nancy]

Choosing to drink or not drink

Regarding boredom.

As I was reading in this book,you have a problem when you are relying on alcohol to solve all of your mental issues, whether they be depression, anxiety, boredom. You have already given away your power/control. You become weak and dependent.

I guess what I was getting at is what we seem to see on these boards, that people do have choices and an element of control. We are sometimes just giving up that control for the escape of alcohol.

[Chief]

Choosing to drink or not drink

Mags said it perfect...


Don

[KateH1]

Choosing to drink or not drink

Ditto, Don and Mags........

Kate

[MyOwnWoman]

Choosing to drink or not drink

Not sure if I'm getting the point correctly or not ... but I do believe, for me at least and that's the only person I can speak for, I think I have used "I'm addicted and therefore have no control" as a way to allow myself to drink to excess. The power of choice is so complex yet simple, isn't it?
I've recently somehow, after being here for a year, had a shift in my mindset that has allowed me to get to my longest AF run yet without a single craving. I used to think of myself as a person who has no self-control over my addiction, and therefore would fulfill that role by craving drink and choosing to give in to the craving. Now I have absolutely no relation to that definition of myself. Now I am a person who once drank to excess and now no longer drinks. And that's the role I now fulfill.

I have chosen to redefine who I am and how I live each day. That has been much more successful for me than relying on making this choice over that one day in and day out.

[SuperBernie]

Choosing to drink or not drink

nancy;331648 wrote: Regarding boredom.

As I was reading in this book,you have a problem when you are relying on alcohol to solve all of your mental issues, whether they be depression, anxiety, boredom. You have already given away your power/control. You become weak and dependent.

I guess what I was getting at is what we seem to see on these boards, that people do have choices and an element of control. We are sometimes just giving up that control for the escape of alcohol.

This totally helped me see drinking through a different perspective. Thanks for giving me this to think about today. I'll be working towards regaining control today.

Love to all of you!
:thanks:

[FloridaBoy]

Choosing to drink or not drink

caseaday;331632 wrote: FloridaBoy...since going AF have you ever (even slightly) mentioned to a friend who is definately drinking way too much that they should consider cutting back? I have had my best friend since I was four years old and we both have been drinking hard since about 16 years old. He has alcoholism running through his family genetics. I told him about my plan to abstain until further notice and he sympathized with me but when I mentioned that he should check out MWO he completely shut down. His response was this "I know how many cases of beer I drink each week, I count them when I throw them in the garbage." He said he drinks because he is bored (he has a wife and two kids). When I said "no you drink because you are addicted" he got pretty pissed.

Boy did I learn a lesson about talking to old boozing buddies about AL! Craziness of the disease/discomfort/crutch/what ever you want to call it!

Yes, to one guy I have known for a long time...and his wife. I told them about this site.
It's the old horse to water story. I think you can make a suggestion and that is about it.

Case, for reasons unknown etc. we decided to get a grip on what we perceived to be a problem. I am not sure if anyone's prodding could have done it. Maybe you buddy will give it some thought?

[tlrgs]

Choosing to drink or not drink

thank you for sharing sounds like a great book . i will see if i can find it
now am losing count how many are really out there..lol

[CS04]

Choosing to drink or not drink

Nancy, who is the author of that book? Is it the same founder/proponent of the Rational Recovery movement, Stanton Peele (I think)?

[nancy]

Choosing to drink or not drink

Authors: Albert Ellis, Emmett Velten
Title: When AA Doesn't Work for you, Rational Steps to Quitting Alcohol

I don't think it's the same as Rational Recovery. I think that movement uses a lot of language about the "beast" and the "lower mind" doesn't it? I don't like that sort of thing. This is really based on cognitive behavioral therapy. I think SMART may be a linked program. Having done a lot of thinking about the subject, I think it's true that we have a lot of self-defeating thoughts and behaviors that keep these booze habits going.

It helps you identify irrational beliefs and stay with your feelings rather than blot them all out.

[CS04]

Choosing to drink or not drink

You're right -- Rational Recovery talks about the Beast. I recently talked to a therapist (not the one I'm seeing) about cog. behavioral therapy and SMART. I'll look for the book at the library -- thanks for the info.

I am feeling better than earlier this afternoon. I was murky and conflicted earlier; need to have a talk with hubby but it's been a nice family day and don't want to ruin it. He an baby are napping, so I decided to go out for a walk by myself -- not to run an errand, just for myself, to get some exercise in the sunshine! And, while I do plan on drinking while we grill out tonight, I don't really feel that countdown to 5:00 that I usually do at this hour. So....I need to keep strengthening these habits. I sure have many self-defeating thouhgts going on that I need to crawl out of.

I don't think I am going to be able to afford to stay on the Topamax for too much longer. Money is just going to be too tight over the summer.

Thanks again, Nancy! And SuperBernie for suggesting the exercise.