Alcoholism is...

[CS04]

I went to an AA meeting last week -- I don't like AA but I am struggling and need to find some new tools. I asked the leader for a phone number, called her, and when we were talking, she said "alcoholism is more than just drinking." Sorry to be dense, but I am having a hard time processing this comment. Is is the fear and emotional crap that goes along with drinking (well the crap the next day), or something else? I am still trying to wrap my head around the term "alcoholism;" I just can't go there. Is this what is holding me back? I am trying to figure this out.

[AAthlete]

Alcoholism is...

In AA, alcoholism is just a symptom - not our true problem. I drank because I couldn't find a good way to deal with my selfishness, self-centeredness and dishonesty. I could just as well have done drugs, become abusive, etc.

That's why simply stopping drinking in and of itself rarely sticks - we aren't addressing the underlying issues of why we were drinking in the first place. It was only when I accepted my disease, accepted and was willing to change my character defects, and became willing to make amends for the harms done that I truly let go of those defects and had the urge to drink removed. That was my experience, but of course every one is different.

Hope that helps....

[wonderworld]

Alcoholism is...

Hey CS:

I think she might be talking about the stuff in all the other steps after step 1. While I'm not fond of the AA language sometimes, it's not completely different from the MWO idea of honestly and openly examining your drinking triggers, drinking aftermath, drinking history, effects of drinking on your health, happiness and relationships and life in general. It's kind of like saying that taking the actual drink is just the final step in a habitual pattern, and that you have to deal with the whole picture to change that pattern. That simply "not drinking" doesn't work.

there's my go at it! Hope you're doing okay otherwise -

WW xox

[vlad]

Alcoholism is...

Alcoholism for me wasn't so much how much I was drinking as to the obsessional aspect - it was like I was living in a completely different world to everyone else. I could no longer relate to the real world, the place I was in was a scary, dark place - the only thing that mattered was where my next drink was coming from, couldn't think much beyond this. I was THAT obsessed; whilst at work, a colleague once caught me looking at images of vodka on the internet!!! (Ummm... what was I going to do? Lick the graphics off the monitor screen?!!!? Goodness knows...) But on a serious note being obsessed caused me to take risks, e.g. turning up to work drunk, turning up to church drunk, drink driving etc etc. It was at this point I admitted to being alcoholic. Not sure if that answers the question.

[CS04]

Alcoholism is...

Wonderworld, I guess that's what they mean by a "dry drunk" (which I was once trying to explain to another MWO member). I know the Big Picture (marriage? motherhood? career/business?) has flaws, and it scared me on those weeks that I was AF before. So that is why I have been sitting on "Now what" for a month now.

[lukalee]

Alcoholism is...

My question to your question is, why do you drink?

[ready2change]

Alcoholism is...

Lukalee...I know your directing this to CS04, but I wanted to ask you this. What if you don't know WHY you drink? I started drinking as a young teenager. Drugs and alcohol. Married in my early 20's and became what I would have labeled then a "social" drinker. But know at 51 I see that alcohol has always been a problem for me...more so the last few years. But I honestly don't know WHY I drink? I don't want to, but I am driven to? Is that the addiction? Is my brain re-wired from all these years of abuse? Am I just a pleasure seeker...chasing the elusive buzz? I really want to know WHY I drink...I have a great life, so can't blame it on that. Any ideas...anyone?

R2C

[Doggygirl]

Alcoholism is...

luckalee and r2c, interesting questions about "why do you drink."

I too am 50. The reasons I became a heavy drinker in the first place (back to the teen & college years - doing what others did, "loosening up," fitting in socially, etc.) no longer apply. At some point, I morphed into someone who drinks because I am addicted to alcohol. In the last year of pondering the question a whole lot, that's what I see as my current situation. (well, no drinking for 68 days but you know what I mean......) My brain just wants a fix. My brain will get over it eventually.

DG

[magic]

Alcoholism is...

There are no black and white lines on this page.

Alcoholism is a complex disease......addiction, affliction, what ever you want to call it.

Each and every one of us has different answers to different questions.

But there are questions. "Why do I drink?" is a complicated one.

You need to find YOUR queries first, then set about to find the answers. With honesty~to yourself. That is often the hardest part.

Putting down the drink is just the beginning.

You need a healthy brain to formulate your questions. And a healthy brain to understand your answers.

Sobriety must accompany change~change must accompany sobriety.

And with respect to both you AA Athlete and AA ~willing to a change my character defects and willing to make amends for harms done.......I think that it is unfair to post this out of context. The 12 steps cannot be taken piecemeal nor are they a blanket repose for everyone. Women who suffer abuse at the hands of a spouse come to mind.

We all have character defects and have inflicted harm to others. We are, after all, human beings. I, myself, believe neither of these things to be cause for alcoholism.
Laying blame on the alcoholic because of behavior is just unfair.

Yes, we must take responsibility for our actions. But so must those around us and not lay blame for their actions at our feet.

For those of you still looking for your questions.....keep looking. They're there.

magic xxxx

[CS04]

Alcoholism is...

uncertain and unstable

I guess that is why these questions -- and answers -- keep eluding me: my brain must not be healthy. I am not a big fan of 12 step programs. That's partly why I like MWO, becaause of the other elements. I thought that Topa, supps and the CDs were going to be the answer for me, and they weren't enough. So that is where I am today.

[lushy]

Alcoholism is...

No, our brains are not healthy or we would not feel the need to fill it with poison all of the time. I know for me it started out as a fun party sort of thing with friends and family. I did not drink to cover up pain or past traumas in my life; I just enjoyed the buzz. Over time, however, it became a habit which in turn depleted my brain of the good chemicals it needs and now I am much more dependent on alcohol if I want to feel "normal." And when life does get tough I think that AL is my friend and will calm me down but in reality that is a bunch of BS.

That is why nutritional supplementation is so important. It can fix a lot.

[wonderworld]

Alcoholism is...

CS04;370929 wrote: Wonderworld, I guess that's what they mean by a "dry drunk" (which I was once trying to explain to another MWO member). I know the Big Picture (marriage? motherhood? career/business?) has flaws, and it scared me on those weeks that I was AF before. So that is why I have been sitting on "Now what" for a month now.

CS - I hear you. It can be such a trap. Difficult feelings or new awarenesses come up (which can feel REALLY threatening), so you drink to take the edge off those and then you're right back in the same spot or worse because now you feel even more crappy about drinking. All I can say is - keep at it. This is a process. And come here before you drink! and talk about it. That worked for me. I don't see people doing that too much around here these days. Just day after remorse-laden reports. All the tools in the world could not have kept me sober some of those early days without help. The pull of the bottle was too strong for me to fight alone. And every time I fought through an urge, I was stronger .

WW xox

[magic]

Alcoholism is...

If only someone could draw us a simple picture of a "healthy brain".

I know that mine is full of holes.

And yes, lushy, we are fooled into believing that our poison helps. I agree.

It does quite the opposite.

But God it felt good to feel "normal" for those few hours.

CS, Topa and supplements are a huge step and an even bigger help but they are just the beginning.
Like WW says..it's a long and arduous journey, a process. Learn a little each day. Take a few steps forward and perhaps a few steps back.
What's important is to keep going. Forward.

What has helped me most was to be more aware~emotionally~ and to look even harder at myself and those around me. I eventually saw things that I really hadn't wanted to see before. They were too frightening. I had to deal with these things.

I found that an addiction counselor was very helpful as well.

You have to be ready, you have to be ready to do this.

I'm 52 and I'm still asking "now what?" Has anyone stopped asking THAT question?

m. xxxx

[IAD]

Alcoholism is...

ALCOHOLISM IS BULL-CRAP !! IAD.

[A Work in Progress]

Alcoholism is...

With all due respect to AA, which has helped a LOT of people... I think it is important to point out that contemporary research (into alcoholism, drug addiction, psychology, and neuroscience) does not support some of the AA ideas... such as: a need to find "the underlying reasons" for drinking; and such as the necessary presence of "character defects" in those who develop dependence on alcohol... For SOME (not all) individuals, the search for underlying reasons and character defects is actually counterproductive, not at all helpful...

For most people, putting alcohol into the bloodstream triggers reward circuits in the brain. If we do it over and over again, the brain wants to do it more and more, and it is harder and harder to stop. The brain "remembers" the reward that comes from the initial drinks, and does not "understand" the negative consequences that come later. And people with certain genetic make-ups get more easily hooked than others (but even without the genetic load, a person can certainly get addicted)... There are all kinds of reasons why a person might drink "over and over again," including peer/social/spousal influence, heavy stressors, loneliness... and the reasons need not have anything to do with "character defects." Uncovering the "deep-seated" reason(s) for drinking, and identifying character defects, are not necessary to recovery...

However, there is much in AA that is VERY helpful to recovery (the social support, the emphasis on changing one's environment, the recognition that our thought patterns often get us into trouble, the concept of "one day at a time"... I just wish that AA would show some willingness to make updates in the program, along with contemporary scientific findings about addiction psychology...

I don't wish to undermine anyone's program, but I truly believe that there are people who feel they cannot engage in the work of recovery because they get stuck on some of AA's unnecessary and outdated dogma... I am one of those people: I did AA for 3 years, long ago... and in recent months when my drinking got so bad, I thought about going back, but realized that I just could not sit in meetings, and listen to people continually preaching stuff I believe (based on research) to be untrue... So I was VERY grateful to find this program...

wip (not drinking, not in AA, and certainly not a "dry drunk"!)