Wow McCain Picked a woman!

[Captnjack]

Wow McCain Picked a woman!

I have to agree Australias health care system at the moment is a god send. It was introduced by the Labour party during the 70s and called MEDICARE has been continually attacked by our conservatives ( ironically called the Liberal party in this country). Although nobbled by the conservatives it is still one of the best health care systems. I have began to experience it first hand with the aging of my parents and particulary the pallative care my father recieved before his passing on. It is the best!!!!!! I believe Hillary Clinton also recognises Australia as having one of the most compassionite and financially functional health care systems in the world. The conservatives keep trying to privatise it but those in the private system are dropping out at a great rate..... because the profiteers keep raising the payment and lowering the service
My 2 bucks
BY THE WAY I am enjoying this debate so much!!!!!! cap

[lorisunshine]

Wow McCain Picked a woman!

Oh, Canada!

One very traumatic personal experience of how our Canadian Health Care System works for an ordinary citizen:

In 2005 my perfectly healthy hubby became deathly ill within 24 hours. He was admitted to hospital and after every specialist in the area had examined him the diagnosis was necrotizing fasciitis (flesh-eating desease) within his left hip socket. He was operated on three times and the third time the Orthopaedic Surgeon told me that they had run out of options and that he was not responding to any of the drugs available. He was in effect dying. There was only one controversial drug left that they had not tried and they flew it into Toronto Pearson Airport from a Pharmaceutical Manufacturer somewhere and had it driven by emergency medi-port to the Regional Hospital where my husband was.
The drug alone cost 950 Dollars per shot not including transportation and it was not stable so they had to fly it in every 3 days. This went on for a month and he finally responded. He was in isolation for most of that time.

He then was sent home with the wound still open and draining. A team of nurses administered wound care round the clock for another 3 month until the wound finally healed from within.

As the bacteria had destroyed almost all of the cartelage in his hip he was immediately scheduled for a hip replacement one year hence. He had that operation and today he is walking and enjoying life again. We did not pay one red cent for any of the fantastic care that was given to my husband, nada, nothing, zero and we have no special coverage over and above the ordinary

We talked to an American MD friend of ours who told us what all that would have cost in the US. It would have been in and around 1/2 million dollars. He told us that his hands are tied by huge Insurance companies and he said that he has become an executioner instead of a healer. My heart is just hurting for your all.

We would be living under a bridge or out of the back of our car now if we had not lived in Canada, UK, Germany, Sweden, Holland, Denmark, Italy, France, Finnland, Norway, Austria, Australia, New Zealand and Costa Rica and possibly a few other nations that I have forgotten. It cost us nothing. It's one for all and all for one and I gladly pay my taxes to this end.

Canada has roughly 33 million citizens which is 10 % of the US population. We are financing and maintaining the infra structure of the second largest country in the world as well as a fairly equitable education system. This system attracts bright young people every year because they are paid well and have one of the best retirement packages in the world.

You cannot tell me that the US cannot fund an equally humane system. It will be an uphill battle because the interest groups are firmly established and have most of the politicians in their pocket as they are contributing to their election campagne. In my books this is a conflict of interest. Like Dr. Phil likes to say: "How is this working for you"? If the same old shoe gives you bloody blisters isn't it time to get a brand new show?

If you live in a true democracy then you have the right and the power to change the things that most negatively impact all your lifes. You owe it to yourself and your children.

I am not writing this to gloat about how lucky I am but rather to make you realize that you are being screwed over royally.

[Boss.man]

Wow McCain Picked a woman!

KTB - one alternative: Check out prices for your own policy, to see if they are lower than your co-pay for your company. Depending on the company age pool, state laws etc, you may find it cheaper. At that point, you can arrange with your employer to carry your own insurance, which will help your job keeping prospects with your employer.

Our whole health "Crisis" comes because back in the 1980s a Republican Congress stopped paying medicare at 100%, and caused the health industry to force private payers to cover the cost of those on government care. A two-tier system where some patients pay 130% to cover government paid patients at 70% is the cost shift that warps the whole private insurance industry.

As many of our world-citizen posters here indicate, here in America we know nothing of how those other systems work, nor do we know how such a system works here. America has been a medical innovator in the past, and that role may shift if we shift or it may not.

I'm not here to pass blame, or choose parties. I'm here to warn everyone that as a business person, Insurance is a critical issue for my business. It is costing jobs, and will cost jobs in the future as I have to adjust for a hostile business climate. As jobs decrease, and costs increase, our economy looks more and more like "stagflation" and even depression.

[Determinator]

Wow McCain Picked a woman!

I'm not stupid enough to expect social security benefits. There is no money in it now...why will I expect money to magically appear there in the future?

even when I was homeless (due to my own stupid mistakes) I have refused to accept food stamps or other forms of theft from the public coffers. I chose to lose 55lbs of body weight over being a thief and violating my own principles.

yeah. don't take Det seriously. good advice man.

I thought in Kates "ground rules" we didn't call people out. i guess that depends on what team they are on?

[Cinders]

Wow McCain Picked a woman!

Boss.Man,

I am seeing a bit red.

It is okay to disagree, it is absolutely NOT okay to personally attack.

Assigning an adjective such as ilk to Det is absolutely uncalled for. Absolutely.

It is really difficult to make me angry, btw.

Cindi

[southernbelle47]

Wow McCain Picked a woman!

Me too Cindi...

No name calling children.
Play nice...
Very interesting discussion...most of the time.

:hNancy

[KTB]

Wow McCain Picked a woman!

Bossman, this fear of "socialized" medicine is so widespread, it is ridiculous. Did you read Lori's post about the "socialized" medicine in Canada? We here in the USA deserve the same, and we can have it. We must demand it. The reason people hate taxes is that our taxes don't work for us. Most people believe their hard-earned money is helping others who don't deserve it. Imagine if we could ALL go to the doctor or the hospital and be treated at no cost. Imagine if ALL children could have a world class education without having to go into debt for half of their lives to finance it. Imagine the world without a stupid war, based on lies and faulty intelligence, draining the lifeblood out of our country, increasing our indebtedness every day, taking innocent lives, and destroying an ancient country that has been called the cradle of civilization. Imagine good paying jobs returning to our country. I know Obama doesn't have a lot of experience at governing, but he does have a lot of experience in organizing and inspiring people. He has a lot of really great ideas, and if people will just listen to the issues rather than being sidetracked by stupidity, lipstick, and pitbulls (by the way I have two pitbull puppies who are adorable). Anyway, Obama is very intelligent and will surround himself with only the best and the brightest to lead this country. Peace, Kay

[Cinders]

Wow McCain Picked a woman!

On socializing health care.

If I may weigh in without being attacked?

1. This is a very large country. We have many different demographics and many different states. Countries that have a much lower population than the US have a bit easier time handling and maintaining a good socialized healthcare system. This is one of our challenges.

2. Having been raised an army brat, I tend to shudder when I think about socialized medicine because the army doctors and hospitals were very similar to socialized medicine. The waits were long and the doctors overworked. A routine childcare exam took an entire day, waiting in the waiting room then waiting in the doctor's exam room then waiting in queue for the shots.

3. I recognize that small businesses and home based businesses are thoroughly whacked by insurance premium costs. However, if the "government" pays for it, who does pay for it? We all do. I am not sure that is a bad thing but I do think we need to insure we get what we all pay for. In a country with so many on medicaid and so many on medicare, if you throw in the people who are paying insurance premiums (yes, we do pay them even if they are invisible, such as not making 34K a year instead of 24K) is that enough to make up the difference between poorly run, bankrupt socialized medicine or a good quality socialized healthcare system?

I would love to see everyone in this country insured and given good quality medical care. I hope that we consider all the options and make a very intelligent choice in tackling this problem.

Just my $0.02.

Cindi

[KateH1]

Wow McCain Picked a woman!

Det, Sorry if you thought I called you out. I assure you that was not my intention and I apologize if it sounded different from my intention.

Cindi, I hear what you are saying about living with the "Military", system of health care, long waits etc. I grew up in an Air Forces family. I do remember some long waits for simple procedures or appointments, but I ask, is it the system or abuse of the system? I say this because, Dave was an Air Force doctor and he saw a lot of abuse of the system because there was no payment involved. People would show up for an appointment for one family member and expect the entire family to get "checked out" simply because they were there! People would show up in the ER for a common cold, nothing a doctor could do for them etc. This was simply a waste of time for the doctors and staff and would keep other people waiting far longer than should have been.

I fully admit, that Healthcare Insurance is a huge dilema, not easily fixed. I truly hope and pray that the next administration does make this a priortity and that they use all of the best resources to resolve this in the very best way for all concerned.

[Cinders]

Wow McCain Picked a woman!

Kate,

You just spoke volumes.

If we set up a system that does not require a remuneration of some sort, people will show up for things that do not matter.

This is the problem with a federal socialized health care system.

All I am saying is that we must think our way through the issues. We do not want to make our doctors so overworked through colds that they cannot take care of the really sick.

and, Kate, you did not attack Det. Boss.Man did. He used the adjective "ilk" when speaking about Det.

That made me angry. As you know, I don't get angry easily.

Do not attack someone who disagrees with your position politically.

We need disagreement and other views. That is what makes our system work. True debate and thought.

I love you all, btw. Whether I disagree or agree.

All of you count and have valuable input into this debate. I am looking at all sides and so glad I have friends here who post both party's attributes and defaults. It will make my choice difficult but worthwhile.

Love,
Cindi

[Cinders]

Wow McCain Picked a woman!

BTW, last election I voted "none of the above."

I sure wish that had counted for something....

Love,
Cindi

[nancy]

Wow McCain Picked a woman!

Surely there are ways to prevent abuse of the system, like having co-payments is one way. Imagine if you have to pay even $20 to $25 per visit, it could be a deterrent. I also don't think it's fair for people to fly in from other countries to get treatments on the tab of another country (not talking about those with citizenship, but those who are not citizens.)

I think everyone is making valid points here. I think that those who like the status quo in the U.S. just use the word socialist to scare people off of any kind of reform. I think there are examples of good systems out there that are government run though maybe the care doesn't cover everything that is covered when you have good private insurance here. But nothing's perfect, there are problems in all these systems and our elderly population is getting bigger and bigger, more and more expensive.

I do wonder if Americans would tolerate a system whereby a government body decides for a whole country whether certain drugs will be available (U.K.) or where access to high-tech medical devices is limited, much more limited than in the U.S., and also determined by the government (Canada). We have been raised with a very individualistic mentality whereby it's every person for him or herself.

I thought Medicare in the U.S. was supposed to be working reasonably well. Isn't it? I also think it's important to remember that indirectly we are paying for the health system here, through our salaries, just as people in govt. run programs pay through their taxes. And so many people in the U.S. are not even covered. Health is such a basic need, I really think we can do better and scare-mongering about some of the bad socialist systems shouldn't hold us back.

It seems to me that government could provide another insurance option and employers could pay the government instead of insurance companies. They could use Medicare as a model. I think though that the private cos would be worried that all the employers would
switch if it was cheaper.

Something needs to be done.

Nancy

[KateH1]

Wow McCain Picked a woman!

I do wonder if Americans would tolerate a system whereby a government body decides for a whole country whether certain drugs will be available (U.K.) or where access to high-tech medical devices is limited, much more limited than in the U.S., and also determined by the government (Canada). We have been raised with a very individualistic mentality whereby it's every person for him or herself.
quote: Nancy

Nancy I agree about some sort of co-pay system to help curb some of the abuse.

But, the concerns that you mentioned in the above quote is happening right now in the US. Only not by the government but by the insurance companies. Many prescribed procedures and drugs are refused by insurance company bureaucrats......the bureaucrats are not doctors and have no medical training, yet thaey contradict the doctors orders, which by the way, is against the law. It is practicing medicines wihout a license! These decisions are strictly cost cutting for profit. Even with the incredible doctors and treatments available in the US, many insured citizens are denied these treatments.

[Cinders]

Wow McCain Picked a woman!

KateH1;410385 wrote: I do wonder if Americans would tolerate a system whereby a government body decides for a whole country whether certain drugs will be available (U.K.) or where access to high-tech medical devices is limited, much more limited than in the U.S., and also determined by the government (Canada). We have been raised with a very individualistic mentality whereby it's every person for him or herself.
quote: Nancy

Nancy I agree about some sort of co-pay system to help curb some of the abuse.

But, the concerns that you mentioned in the above quote is happening right now in the US. Only not by the government but by the insurance companies. Many prescribed procedures and drugs are refused by insurance company bureaucrats......the bureaucrats are not doctors and have no medical training, yet thaey contradict the doctors orders, which by the way, is against the law. It is practicing medicines wihout a license! These decisions are strictly cost cutting for profit. Even with the incredible doctors and treatments available in the US, many insured citizens are denied these treatments.

Therin lies the rub.

If we go with a Federal Health Care system, are we putting ourselves at risk??

All I ask is that we think our way through this idea. Let's make it a truly free medical system. Let's let it be run by the doctors, not the administrators.

Let's do that for education, too.



Love,
Cindi

[Cinders]

Wow McCain Picked a woman!

Oh, and somebody had to pay for it.

I will pay for it out of my tax dollars, gladly, if it works.

If it doesn't work.

I will fight to get my tax dollars back.

Love,
cindi