Addiction, Self-Deception, and Science

[Theme2be]

Addiction, Self-Deception, and Science

I never would have imagined in a million years that I would be faced with this.

[DeeBee]

Addiction, Self-Deception, and Science

Thanks for the link WIP, it's just what I needed to send to my parents to help them understand my brothers drug and AL addiction. I didn't want to discuss with them my experience and this gives me info to give to them without it being about me.

[nancy]

Addiction, Self-Deception, and Science

I know some people think that the drinking has to stop before the anxiety and depression goes away. But I actually strongly disagree with this. I think that alcohol definitely increases those problems. But the problems themselves can be overwhelming and seem impossible to address sober. A psychologist can help with this whether you are still drinking or have stopped,though you need to make sure they are open-minded at first. You can reduce your drinking while working on depression and anxiety. You do need to come to see that physically, drinking exacerbates depression.

As for North Wood's post. I think what this touches on is a very real problem people have with stopping, that they feel they can't socialize at all. It's a problem with society sometimes (obsessed with booze in some cases) and sometimes the drinker (obsessed with booze when others are just socializing.) I have found lately that while there is all this anxiety for someone newly abstinent about going to a party and not drinking, that there are a number of people not drinking at parties (granted I am not in my 20s).

Actually, a lot of the anxiety is unfounded. You don't have to cut out your whole social life. If you start to cut back you see a number of people at parties, particularly women drinking soft drinks or water! or you see those nursing their drinks, like one for the whole evening or they ask for half a glass! Hey ladies, this happens in real life though we maybe never noticed!

Also, who would want a life of excessive excercising instead of booze? Unfortunately, quitting booze alone does not get rid of the underlying cause of addiction, which often is psychological and just transfers to another behavior, like eating or working out.

[A Work in Progress]

Addiction, Self-Deception, and Science

Nancy, I agree with much of what you said. "Life issues" and problems can be addressed, to varying degrees, whether a person is drinking, or not. For those who CAN "start to cut back," it may become clear that life can go on, and get better, without drinking so much. In practice, however, it just seems clear that for some, "cutting back" is not possible, and certainly not consistently possible, because the behavior is so deeply entrenched, and the brain pathways in favor of excessive drinking triggered by small amounts of alcohol are very well-established, whereas the inhibitory pathways are very weak.

Also, you said:

Unfortunately, quitting booze alone does not get rid of the underlying cause of addiction, which often is psychological and just transfers to another behavior, like eating or working out.

As to the idea that there are "underlying causes" for addiction, in the sense of "issues" or some kind of "hidden" reasons... there's really no evidence that this is the case for all, or even for most alcoholics or problem drinkers; and there the idea of "transfer" of addiction has never been supported by any respectable evidence, and has been dismissed by most researchers and well-trained clinicians.

A person who is working with a therapist who promotes the notion of "underlying causes" will nearly always "find" such a thing. A person who is NOT working with a therapist, if s/he believes in the idea of "underlying causes," will also likely "discover" one. It will be some life issue/problem that recurs in the person's life, something that causes other problems as well (shyness, "low self-esteem," etc.). However, ALL human beings have life issues/problems like this, very few of them have "fully addressed" or "resolved" all of them, and most of them do not become alcoholics or problem drinkers.

I happen to believe that it is counter-therapeutic to ask patients to inquire of themselves, "Why do you drink so much?" because it encourages the idea that when the "why" is discovered, it leads to a relatively easy road to eliminating the problem drinking. I have not found that to be the case, and as yet, so far as I have been able to see, there is no credible scientific evidence that it IS the case.

wip

[nancy]

Addiction, Self-Deception, and Science

Hey WIP

No I am not talking about deliberately discovering underlying causes, but when you already know them and develop better coping skils, which then has the side effect of reducing consumption.

Did you see the Rain in my heart video? There was one episode where a woman talks about why she drinks, to get some very bad memories out of her head.

I think it is common sense that if you develop better coping skills for things that disturb you, that this supports lower consumption. I don't need a study to show that. Most primary care doctors I have talked to recognize drinking too much as a poor coping mechanism.

[Larisa]

Addiction, Self-Deception, and Science

I know that, in my case, I drank if I was stressed, depressed, whatever, but I also drank if I was happy or something good happened that needed celebrating. One reason wasn't really any better than another. I needed to drink if pretty much anything or nothing happened.

I'm afraid of getting to that point you talked about, WIP. I pray that I don't start taking sobriety for granted and then just figure, what the hell, we die one day anyway, might as well just drink.

[A Work in Progress]

Addiction, Self-Deception, and Science

Nancy, I agree that for some people, developing better coping skills is a major part of establishing and maintaining a life free of substance abuse. I think they go hand in hand. If the question is a sort of which comes first, chicken-or-egg dilemma, I would say that it may be possible that, with a lot of help, some people can do that (improve coping skills) while they are still drinking, if they are among the few (note, that's my opinion that it is only a few who can do this) who are able to reduce their alcohol consumption from what we would call "abuse" to "moderate consumption." I think that a conceptual model in which reduced alcohol consumption is a "side effect" of improved coping skills is not one that often fits the actual cases that are found among those who have gotten to the point with their alcohol abuse that they are presenting to some kind of professional or self-help source of "help" or "treatment" (a therapist, a physician, AA, MWO, etc.)....

On the other hand, there's a respectable body of scientific literature indicating that a LOT of people reduce or eliminate alcohol consumption, after developing a pattern of abuse, on their own. They are likely a whole different sub-population, with significantly different characteristics than those who are "help-seekers."

Of course, too, the whole area of HOW to get these improved coping skills is a thorny matter; some folks can do some of this on their own, with adequate motivation; others cannot seem to make major changes, even with a skillful therapist helping them.

As to primary care physicians (as well as other physicians, including psychiatrists)... it is sad, but true, that very few of them are knowledgeable about contemporary research in the area of alcohol and drug abuse... I know that they want to be helpful, and assume that they can be helpful... but most of their knowledge tends to come from popular culture, because most of them get little-to-no formal training about this stuff, in med school and residency... Same is true for most psychologists and other mental health professionals.

wip

[hippie37]

Addiction, Self-Deception, and Science

Nancy I agree with a lot you have to say and like many I think we feel we are pigeon holed by society. For me when I was at a rave or festival or gig say you would feel the odd one out or even laughed at for being such a puritan and not entering into the spirit of things. But I also felt that a certain amount of self conditioning when at our vulnerable teenage years (or later in us blokes!) lays the foundations for our futures. I digress slightly into the 'rave' scene to make a point here. Many young people were given the opportunity to take drugs in an environment that enhanced their experience. The loud hypnotic beats, the feeling of being part of a tribe or sub-culture. The situation I feel warrants taking the substance. You would definitely not feel a part of that 'group consciousness' if you were drinking water all night. And I think in a strange kind of way the same could be said of certain situations with drink too. But why should we be made to feel that way in the first place? Because the general populous who are drinking etc make us feel inferior for not drinking in those situations in the first place. This is were it becomes problematic I think for those who still want to go to parties, clubs, barbecues etc and NOT drink. No one should be made to feel inferior for not 'entering into the spirit' of the event etc but we still do have a choice or not as to whether we attend that function too. I know for FACT that I would not go to a rave without taking something and entering into that tribal spirit. That's what they are designed for, but general parties and functions were not! It's the 'social' progression that has lead us to believe that these events need to have drink involved. I'd love to go (well not really!) to a funeral say where drinks where not served. Who thought that one up? Let's give the guy a good send of and get pissed in his loving memory. I'm not saying the mood has to be somber but why do we feel the need to have a drink!

Sorry I've not probably got my point across as well as I would of liked to be honest. Damn you articulate people! I'll leave it there. sorry if I missed the point.

Love and Happiness
Hippie
xx

[rubywillow]

Addiction, Self-Deception, and Science

Hip, have you ever been to a Southern Baptist funeral?? The ONLY thing addictive you'll get there is Aunt Maude's fried chicken!

[hippie37]

Addiction, Self-Deception, and Science

Well tell Aunt Maude to take that addictive ingredient out of her chicken then!!lol

Cheers ruby!

Love and Happiness
Hippie
xx

[livingfree]

Addiction, Self-Deception, and Science

Great information here. There is no doubt that the addiction feeds off of the way we process our lives, and the way we process our lives feeds of the addiction.

In forming new habits I have had to spend days on end discovering what area's I was even interested in anymore ... as we lose so much of what we really loved when we are consumed with drinking and ultimately ... consumed with ourselves. What I have discovered is that the real Joy comes back when we are "making a difference" in our families, communities, and the world.