The Debate is on!

[Chyrsa]

The Debate is on!

LOL Det..a Marxist? So it sound like youare opposed to government expansion. So woudl you have preferred that the Bush administration decide NOT to bail out all of the banks and that we go into another 1930's depression. The $700 billion proposal came from Bush & his adminstration. He had to beg his own right-wing republicans to go along ..and they did go along. Thank God.

Under the Bush administration we have experienced the largest giovernment expansion in the HISTORY of this country. A war that cost 10 billlion a month, a deficit that is mind-boggling. The US government is in debt over its head to China!!!! We have more earmarks & pork-barrel projects fromt he republicans than ever before and less real services to the middle class.

Becuae of Bush, my friend, we are no longer a true capitalist country. They forced us into socialism!!!!

That is not what Obama wants. He only wants a break for the middle class...like FDR did after the war & the previous financial debacle run by soem Republicans. That's all -- a break for the middle class. I am middle class. I want it..for a change.

[WaitingToExhale]

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My biggest fear in Obama getting elected is ... the guy is going to get shot.

I've traveled too much of this country. It's not ready for a black president. And it only takes one nut case.

[Boss.man]

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My spouse and I are in that very high bracket. Yet oddly, Obama's tax plan is only $2000 per year different from McCain's.

My business, on the other hand, would be significantly impacted by McCain. He wants to tax businesses that provide health care to employee; in effect punishing them for caring for their American workers. For my business, that will be a $38,000 per year increase in taxes that my company pays.

I'm not about to set my employees loose, but I think it's irresponsible for anyone to advocate punishing companies that are spending huge amounts of money for American workers benefits for workers based in THIS country.

[Chyrsa]

The Debate is on!

Well WaitingToExhale...you are probably right. There are still too many prejudixe bigoted people ....BUT:

1) Joe Biden will become President..because they cared enough about the American people to choos a competent VP

2) This campaign has been a real education for most of the country about..and I know that Barack & his wife have weighed the cost of paying with his life...And I know they chose to go ahead because this is the most pivotal moment in the history of this country since Hiroshima & the FDR new deal & race relations & war all over the world....

I know this because I talked to the Bidens about it & my daughter is an Obama staffer.


Compare the Biden decision to the Sarah Palin decision

[Noelle]

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This administration has allowed these greedy bastards (banks) to continue to loan money to people who were too stupid/naive/greedy, whatever you want to call it, to say, "thanks but no thanks, I cannot afford that." That is why we are in this awful financial crisis we are in.

I bow to the Queen and I totally agree. When we looked to buy a house, they told us we could afford a $500,000 house. We thought, duh, no we can't. (We used our brains!!) I don't want to bail out stupid people, no matter who they are.

[Chyrsa]

The Debate is on!

Thank you boss.man!!!!!. That says it all! The tax burden on the upper income is miniscule in comparison to all the rest of the financial burdens we now have to bear. As a businees owner ..Thank you so much for sharing this!!! My husband & I used to be in that bracket.

[Determinator]

The Debate is on!

Obama "only wants a break for the middle class"? hahahahahaahah!
ahahahahaha

I've rubbed shoulders with too many high level lobbyists I guess.

hey, have a quick peek at s. 2433 and tell me how that's going to help the middle class.

its' called the "global poverty act". not heard of it? not many have. and you won't find a congressional record of who voted to pass it either.

Incidentally I'm no Bush apologist and won't be voting for Mcain either.
I think the crooked lending and insurance companies should have gone belly up years ago for lending at a 30:1 leverage rate which is insane. without gov help that would have happened. I'm quite irate with many of the things the Bush administration has done. Including this bail out. it's not going to cost us 750 billion. More like 3+ trillion. by the time this train wreck comes to a stop you better hope you have a years supply of canned food and a lot of ammunition.

I would like a real change too. A real change will mean shedding ourselves of illusionary two party system. No matter how many times we vote for master "A" or master "B" we will always be slaves with a token vote to make us feel better about the shackles we wear.

I agree Bush has plunged us into an era of American Socialism and I'm thoroughly disgusted.

[Determinator]

The Debate is on!

ok, time to stop speculating on what our taxes will look like in the near future:


Election Taxes ? Estimate your 2009 - 2012 taxes

[Chyrsa]

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Det...What is 2433? What is in it? Who proposed? Who passed? Thank you.

Obama at least has not taken lobbyist money for his campaign.

[dexterhead]

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Thanks Det ... was just going to post that. Shows me an Obama administration would by far benefit me taxwise ...
There's just so much crazy misinformation out there!!! And there are so many people who are relying on these INSANE e-mails and talking points that are going around .... Just check one of the nonpartisan sites like factcheck.org, or there's a couple others ... and God help us if anyone believes any of the TV ads. They are almost 100 percent distortion if not outright lies ... both sides are guilty to some extent. I just read an article that pointed out that many people think the old "truth in advertising" principle must apply to political ads. It doesn't. It's perfectly legal to outright lie in political ads. End of rant.

[Chyrsa]

The Debate is on!

Det...I truly respect and appreciate anyone who is fed up with the current system and believes we need a third party. I whole-heartedly support that!!!!.

It's just for me, we don't have that good choice yet & I am too scared of another 8 yrs. of what has been going on with the richest in this country for so long.

[Determinator]

The Debate is on!

Chrysa, here's a rundown:

Obama's Global Poverty Act by Edward Cline -- Capitalism Magazine

mind you I'm sure you'll compare that with your own research...please let me know what you think.
(I'm not being sarcastic...being quite open).

I agree your Lushness...so many unqualified loans have been made which is really irresponsible. Bush caved to pressure to balance home ownership for minorities so he in turn pressured banks to ease up on loans. then when they go belly up he jumps in to "save" them.... hmmmmm. seems a little too convenient for me.

[Determinator]

The Debate is on!

Chrysa, I'm with you on not wanting another 1,2 or 8 years of the past. I just really don't trust Obamas direction. We can't undo a pandoras box of socialism or government control (or whatever name we use). we can't go back from that without an all-out revolution. It's the nature of mankind for our governments to become more and more self serving, and it's human nature for the people to want to be 'taken care of' by a big mommy gov. I live in the US by choice because I could rise up above the herd simply with the power of an idea and the conviction of my own spirit. that may be gone now. I'm really quite sad about this.

[Determinator]

The Debate is on!

ps...Chrysa, where the heck have you been? haven't seen you in a while!

[Chyrsa]

The Debate is on!

Wow..well..here's what I think.
Below is what I found in my research. This is a "foreign policy" bill and not proposed legislation/ create laws for our economy. It is a long long reach goal & was supported by both parties.

That guy Cline sounds like a good writer, sensationalist type, kind of like Rush limbaugh. Kind of a whole lot over not a lot.

The US has been supporting the end of global poverty for quite awhile. Also this bill proposes only the development of a global "strategy"...not laws to get the money.





Global Poverty Act of 2007
A bill to require the President to develop and implement a comprehensive strategy to further the United States foreign policy objective of promoting the reduction of global poverty, the elimination of extreme global poverty, and the achievement of the Millennium Development Goal of reducing by one-half the proportion of people worldwide, between 1990 and 2015, who live on less than $1 per day.
Other Bill Titles (3 more)

Official: A bill to require the President to develop and implement a comprehensive strategy to further the United States foreign policy objective of promoting the reduction of global poverty, the elimination of extreme global poverty, and the achievement of the Millennium Development Goal of reducing by one-half the proportion of people worldwide, between 1990 and 2015, who live on less than $1 per day. as introduced.
Short: Global Poverty Act of 2007 as reported to senate.
Short: Global Poverty Act of 2007 as introduced.
4/24/2008--Reported to Senate amended. Global Poverty Act of 2007 - Directs the President, through the Secretary of State, to develop and implement a comprehensive strategy to further the U.S. foreign policy objective of promoting the reduction of global poverty, the elimination of extreme global poverty, and the achievement of the United Nations Millennium Development Goal of reducing by one-half the proportion of people, between 1990 and 2015, who live on less than $1 per day. Requires the strategy to contain specific and measurable goals and to consist of specified components, including:
(1) continued investment or involvement in existing U.S. initiatives related to international poverty reduction and trade preference programs for developing countries;
(2) improving the effectiveness of development assistance and making available additional overall United States assistance levels as appropriate;
(3) enhancing and expanding debt relief as appropriate;
(4) mobilizing and leveraging the participation of businesses and public-private partnerships;
(5) coordinating the goal of poverty reduction with other internationally recognized Millennium Development Goals; and
(6) integrating principles of sustainable development and entrepreneurship into policies and programs. Sets forth specified reporting requirements. Directs the Secretary of State to designate a coordinator who will have primary responsibility for overseeing and drafting the reports, as well as responsibility for helping to implement recommendations contained in the reports. Defines specified terms.


... morehide bill summarySee Full Bill Text

Sponsor
Sen. Barack Obama [D, IL]
and 30 Co-Sponsors
Sen. Joseph Biden [D, DE]
Sen. Jeff Bingaman [D, NM]
Sen. Barbara Boxer [D, CA]
Sen. Sherrod Brown [D, OH]
Sen. Maria Cantwell [D, WA]
Sen. Benjamin Cardin [D, MD]
Sen. Robert Casey [D, PA]
Sen. Hillary Clinton [D, NY]
Sen. Susan Collins [R, ME]
Sen. Christopher Dodd [D, CT]
Sen. Richard Durbin [D, IL]
Sen. Russell Feingold [D, WI]
Sen. Dianne Feinstein [D, CA]
Sen. Charles Hagel [R, NE]
Sen. Thomas Harkin [D, IA]
Sen. Tim Johnson [D, SD]
Sen. John Kerry [D, MA]
Sen. Amy Klobuchar [D, MN]
Sen. Herbert Kohl [D, WI]
Sen. Frank Lautenberg [D, NJ]
Sen. Richard Lugar [R, IN]
Sen. Robert Menendez [D, NJ]
Sen. Barbara Mikulski [D, MD]
Sen. Patty Murray [D, WA]
Sen. Charles Schumer [D, NY]
Sen. Gordon Smith [R, OR]
Sen. Olympia Snowe [R, ME]
Sen. Debbie Ann Stabenow [D, MI]
Sen. Jim Webb [D, VA]
Sen. Ron Wyden [D, OR]
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