A Psychic Change...

[Cinders]

A Psychic Change...

WIP

Over and over again (here at MWO and in other clinical settings) I hear people who clearly believe that their cravings, impulses, and desires to drink/use CANNOT be overcome, and that so long as they experience cravings, they are UNABLE to stop drinking/using. Offering people a promise that these cravings and desires will be taken away somehow, amounts (in my opinion) to an undermining of their belief in their own capacity to withstand cravings, to be stronger than their cravings.

And I think this goes to one of my fundamental disagreements with the AA program. Within AA it is thought that the person is "powerless" and must surrender to some process ("higher power") that creates a "miracle" for him or her. A different approach would be to say that the person's own will, desire, and commitment to be healthy and whole, despite the existence of hardships (including, sometimes, a desire to drink), is the "active ingredient." I am very much an advocate of the latter approach!

It is so funny that we agree to disagree.

All I am saying is that at some point the "miracle" takes over and you are at the place where you want to be. Drinking is not only not an option, you don't WANT to drink.

This is a miracle.

Whether is comes from a higher power, from withwin one'self. It does not matter. Truly.
The psyche knows. You do not want to drink. Period.

AA is simply trying to help you achieve that place. I am trying so hard to get there.

Love,
Cindi

[A Work in Progress]

A Psychic Change...

Cinders;436570 wrote:
All I am saying is that at some point the "miracle" takes over and you are at the place where you want to be. Drinking is not only not an option, you don't WANT to drink.

This is a miracle.

Whether is comes from a higher power, from withwin one'self. It does not matter. Truly.
The psyche knows. You do not want to drink. Period.

AA is simply trying to help you achieve that place. I am trying so hard to get there.

Love,
Cindi

And I hope you do get there, Cindi! I also hope that, even if sometimes you DO want to drink, you will find the strength (from wherever!) to not give in to that desire (remembering, I hope, that our desires are often very unimportant, in the long run, and in the big picture... )

wip

[stepintime]

A Psychic Change...

I agree with the spiritual 'thing'. I have lost count of the attempts I have tried to get off the booze with will power alone. I have tried AA on 3 occasions with no joy. However... somehow,.... somewhere along the way, a little seed was planted in my head on those previous attempts. And that little seed has never died. It took me back to AA again, this week, and it suddenly hit me, that there is something very special in those meetings. A union of people all fighting the same demons. It doesn't have to be a religious thing. I don't know what it was. I just felt/knew I wasn't alone in this anymore.

Day 3 for me. Yes I have the cold sweats, and yes I'm an emotional wreck right now. But I am determined not to drink. I don't want to live in an alcohol haze anymore. I no longer want to self medicate with alcohol. And I have faith, for the first time, that I can do this.


Step

X

[Carmac]

A Psychic Change...

Great thread -

I do not look to a miracle outside myself divined by God to provide me a sober life through AA. But rather the spirituality of caring for myself and those around me to instill in me my own psychic change to not want to drink but also simply live a fuller and more honest life. The twelve steps provide a path of inward and outward reflection and acivities to simply help me achieve that......with the help of others and knowing they to have been there.

Just my two cents....

[caysea]

A Psychic Change...

Hi All
I have found myself viewing myself as a non drinker .I am an alcoholic but I do not drink.If I am at a party and people are smoking it doesn't matter to me I am not a smoker. Just because people are, doesn't influence me into just having a cigarette.I have this same approach to drinking .People can do what they want but because of my problem I can't and don't.Yes I don't want to drink.It is weird after battling for years trying to have control over something I couldn't control to now say I am not a drinker.It has been 5 months since my last drink after having al in my life for over 35 years .It has been a change in my lifestyle and approach to life that has enabled this to happen.Not just stopping drinking.Yes very hard in the beginning but easier the further I get away from the al.I will never view myself as in control of my drinking I just don't drink.It is not an option.The cravings are gone but I can still remember how hard it was in the beginning.I will still not place my self in certain situations because yes I might have a problem.The difference is I don't want to be in those situations anymore because they are detrimental to my new healthy lifestyle.Going to a bar is just something I don't want to do with my time anymore.All day drinking parties that I looked forward to in the past is something that doesn't matter to me anymore.Change in psyche that came along with a change in lifestyle.I am now very involved in living a physically active lifestyle and enjoying each day

Stay Healthy and Keep Fighting
AF 5-16-08

[vinophile]

A Psychic Change...

Thanks AA Athlete for this.!!
Much as I scorned the Big Book before I have come to see and understand what a great read it really is. I suppose I'm like those kids who believe their parents are stupid until they grow up and realise how smart their parents really were.
I always held AA in great disdain until a few weeks ago when I, out of nowhere, decided to attend and tryout another meeting. For some reason I really clicked with this group. I feel like I'm learning so much, about myself and the world around me. I'm very grateful to have found them!
I love MWO and will back around shortly. I needed to shed my old(drinking) skin.I'm getting there and look foward to reconnecting with you all.

Janet

[bloggy]

A Psychic Change...

Thank you everybody for your great answers- I have copied some of this thread on to a note on my desktop- to come back to and read often.

[It's Time]

A Psychic Change...

Hi Every-one..
I am very new to MWO, and I am on day 2.
I feel I am learning so much from reading all of your thoughts and reflections. I feel so lucky to have found this forum to seek help and support. I have read some extremely wise, beautiful things in the last 2 days.
This thread has been a really helpful one to me.
I have a lot of faulty thinking, which in turn leads to pretty destructive behaviour...
I think if I can get to work on challenging my negative thinking, the thinking that interprets everything as being bad, hurtful, nasty, proof that I am not worth much, then I will be able to change my behaviours.
Its the old cognitive behaviour model I guess.
Geez, doctors are very silly at applying their art to themselves.
This has only occured to me to do this for myself right now, in this thread, and I've been teaching others how to do it for years.
Mr. AL keeps you pretty dazed and confused, doesn't he?

[A Work in Progress]

A Psychic Change...

Yes indeedy, Time! The "challenging" of negative thinking is the standard approach of CBT, but there are many within what is known as "Third Wave CBT" who advocate a modification that involves less challenge, and more acceptance. That means we spend less time arguing with ourselves, and more time simply noticing thoughts AS thoughts, impulses AS (merely!) impulses (as opposed to the Voice of God that Must Be Obeyed), etc., so that they have less power over us. It's a matter of stepping back from our chaotic minds, and adopting the stance of a compassionate witness. In some ways this is an outgrowth of mindfulness (meditation) practice. There's an approach called Mindfulness-Based Relapse Prevention that incorporates this approach (it's also used in the treatment of mood and anxiety disorders (Mindfulness-Based Cognitive Therapy). Related approaches have been successful for OCD and Tourette's (Jeff Schwartz, MD, at UCLA, pioneered this work). PM me if you are interested in this.

wip

[momof3]

A Psychic Change...

Good Morning and thank you for this thread. Threads like this are the reason that I come to MWO.

For me, a fundamental shift came when I hit about the 4 month mark. I went from "white knuckling" it to really enjoying my sobriety. The psychic shift for me was shifting from seeing myself as a victim (victim of AL, victim of others) to an empowered person who is responsible for the choices I make in my life. This has been huge for me. When you're a victim, it's easy to blame others. When you're an empowered person, you have to take full responsibility for yourself.

Something else that was helpful was to set some goals that would stengthen my body and my mind. For example, taking tai chi and training for a marathon and eating in a super healthy way. I now feel so good physically that I would not want AL in my system.

Mo3

[bestlifeldms]

A Psychic Change...

As always, Athlete, a great thread. I am reading an intersting book "The Monk who sold his Ferrari". I highly reccommend it. It directly addresses one of the main points here. It points out that "habits" are never lost or gone, they are simply replaced by new "habits". This usually takes an average of 21 days. We all have habits that are DOMINANT. Sometimes they are positive (exercise, proper eating plan, etc) and other times they are negative (alcohol, drugs, dysfunctional relationships, etc). When we make a decision to eliminate negative habits from our lives, we understand all to well the uncomfortable consequences that will follow (withdrawl, mild or severe, etc) For me, new positive habits began to replace the old negative one, and it continues to fade~~~becoming less and less of my consious thought process. 21 days! I remember, before my sobriety, how impossible I would have thought that going 21 days without alcohol would be. New positive habits are replacing the old negative ones, and the quality of my life is dramatically improving. Check out the book!

[GoodAsGold]

A Psychic Change...

Thanks Athlete & all for this dynamite thread! I'll be coming back to it often...

BEST - i'll be looking out for that book. Am gathering tools which support my thinking & am a great believer in replacing/updating habits rather than trying to change them. Adding to rather than taking away

Gold

[fickle]

A Psychic Change...

Thanks Athlete and all,
I really am touched by this thread. Like WIP I did not find AA helpful - in fact the suggestion that I was 'powerless' over alchol was terrifying for me and I felt like someone had pronounced me mentally unstable - a compulsive. I took the notion very seriously and suddenly found myself truly powerless and went completely off the rails for a short while. The other thing that did not feel right to me was the requirement to confess or acknowledge crimes against others. I could not for the life of me think of a single thing I had ever done to hurt anyone. It was bizarre to be surrounded by people confessing so many terrible things. This produced a great fear in me that I must be a really bad person.

Thankfully after confessing my terror to a friend they said they thought the ideas were preposterous and of course I was sane, in control and a good person. With that calming and reassuring thought I settled down again to being an habitual drinker. I had never really been 'off the rails' before AA, just seeking help with cutting down. That was years ago and I never want to revisit that fear again. I did read the big book and think parts of it have great value. The problem can be the way people interpret it I guess. I still ponder the notion of what I may have done to hurt others in my life and I think my non-attention and/or lack of courage is perhaps my greatest crime. I definitely can relate that to drinking.

I've always wanted to quit completely but have not managed yet. MWO really helps me because of the thoughtful and insightful things discussed here and the fact that there are so many normal people out there struggling with the same thing. You don't have to be a criminal to have issues with how much you drink. There are many, many fine people here.

I do find that quote from the big book particularly helpful Athlete - I have achieved periods of AF many times and find it really difficult to stay that way permanently. I will print it out with some of the other insightful comments above to give me strength in my next attempt to see if I can make it past the uncomfortable moments of being AF. There is a quote up there from WIP I really love too.

Many thanks all,:goodjob:
Fickle