we must fight to win

[Determinator]

we make fun here and do horse around (I'm a big proponent of laughter therapy)
however at the end of the day this battle against al is literally a life and death matter for many of us. I have always liked this old quote and think of it often:

"There were young knights among them who had never been present at a stricken field. Some could not look upon it, some could not speak. They held themselves apart from the others who were cutting down prisoners at my lord's orders. Then an aged knight of Burgundy, who had been sore wounded in the fight, rode up to the group of young knights and said: "?Are ye maidens with your downcast eyes? Look well upon it. See all of it. Close your eyes to nothing. For the battle is fought to be won, and this is what happens if you lose.' "?

- Froissart's Chronicles

[A Work in Progress]

we must fight to win

That's quite a quote, Det. The young knights were scorned as "maidens" for not wanting to be a part of (or witness to) the slaughter of unarmed prisoners... hmm. I know a lot of soldiers (both male and female) who would object to the killing or abuse of prisoners of war. And using the term "maiden" as a term of contempt and shame is pretty offensive to me, and to many women.

All that being said, I agree wholeheartedly that the work involved (the "battle") in quitting alcohol dependence requires a very tough-minded approach. We need to be willing to open our eyes to all the ways that our own behavior with alcohol has damaged us, damaged our lives, damaged our loved ones, damaged people we aren't even aware of. And we need to toughen ourselves to endure the discomfort involved in giving up a deeply entrenched habit, one that we learned to rely upon, even while it destroyed us. Learning to tolerate discomfort is one of the most difficult and valuable lessons of sobriety, and it is a mark of emotional maturity.

wip

[AAthlete]

we must fight to win

Okay WIP - I think Det was trying to be general in nature in terms of this being a battle where losing costs you your life.

I've always maintained that if I had kept drinking, one of three things awaited me: (1) Death; (2) Jail; (3) an Institution. Thanks for the reminder of what the true consequences can be...

[toughintexas]

we must fight to win

D, that was awesome, and soooo very true! We have to take this seriously, and at times, thump ourselves, and some of each other, on the head, to stay in the fight.....we can't take it lightly, and not a day goes by I don't remember with regret something I did while falling down drunk.....its disgusting, and I never want to be, or be seen being, that person, ever again! Not only that, its poison, and robs our health! Thanks for sharing, love ya tons, DX too!

[IAD]

we must fight to win

Right Det. look around and check out the battle field: " Lest we forget the horror " IAD.

[A Work in Progress]

we must fight to win

Of course you are right, AAth, as to one of the meanings of the story that Det told, and as to why he probably told it. My point was that the stories we tell, and the way we make our points, can carry many different messages. I imagine you would swiftly get the point I was making, if I told a similar story that implicitly contained messages that promote racist thinking or behavior...

I know that many find it tiresome when women point out the use of demeaning language and attitudes about women... and, because they don't want to be considered tiresome, many women just shrug and let it go by... and so the attitudes persist. So... this time, I guess I was a bit tiresome. Oh well.

[Determinator]

we must fight to win

AWIP, it's true that the used of the word 'maidens' is indeed derogatory especially in modern times. the quote if from the 1400's and the old knight was trying to get the youngsters to face up to the harsh realities of war and not just be mired in depression and sorrow for their losses.
Please know I have the utmost respect for you and all the other superwomen of MWO

[Seacailin]

we must fight to win

Nice analogy Det. Gave me a good visual of the "real deal". Our death is not so instantaneous, but it is imminent. Made me think, thanks Det.

[A Work in Progress]

we must fight to win

Determinator;442393 wrote: AWIP, it's true that the used of the word 'maidens' is indeed derogatory especially in modern times. the quote if from the 1400's and the old knight was trying to get the youngsters to face up to the harsh realities of war and not just be mired in depression and sorrow for their losses.
Please know I have the utmost respect for you and all the other superwomen of MWO

I know Det, and I very much appreciate that, and very much appreciate you. I also know that being told that they are being a girl, or being like a girl, is still a technique used to humiliate (or "motivate" or toughen up) boys and young men today, and it bugs the hell out of me, because it contributes to all sorts of mistreatment of women. It's an uphill battle to get rid of deeply entrenched attitudes, in many ways like the uphill battle it is to overcome deeply entrenched habits or addictions... ! And, I believe, each of them is very much worth fighting.

Eat more garlic!!

wip

[bestlifeldms]

we must fight to win

Thanks, DET! Great analogy. Most times we down-play the seriousness of what faces us and the inevitable outcome, if we are not to change our ways! (Denial)

[tlrgs]

we must fight to win

thanks det love it

[Cinders]

we must fight to win

Det,

A very poignant post about what we are all facing. It is a fight for our very lives and the lives around us.

Thank you!!

Love,
Cindi

[Mackeral]

we must fight to win

While i respect you wip...i gotta disagree...To me...I think the tables have turned...I think women are the empowered ones...Men have become the but of all jokes...People in their own country are made to feel like second citizens..And the fact that people cant say what they actually mean gets on my tits..

Being polittically correct...Is a royal pain in the arse...Their are bigger issues in my opinion...

Pulling det up on that...Although he has been very gracious...Does my nut in..

Not wanting to start a row...Just stating MY opinion..As a man..

[A Work in Progress]

we must fight to win

Well, Mack, that's fine, you have voiced your opinion about men, women, power, and "political correctness" in our contemporary world. I suppose we'll just disagree on what are, or are not, the "bigger issues." Can we leave it at that? I certainly don't want a row, either.

[momof3]

we must fight to win

And we need to toughen ourselves to endure the discomfort involved in giving up a deeply entrenched habit, one that we learned to rely upon, even while it destroyed us. Learning to tolerate discomfort is one of the most difficult and valuable lessons of sobriety, and it is a mark of emotional maturity.

Wow WIP, never really thought of it that way. So very, very true. We do need to tolerate and become accustomed to this discomfort on so many different levels. On top of the discomfort I feel from "undoing a deeply entrenched habit," I am having to deal with all sorts of emotional discomfort that I used to dampen with alcohol.

M03