Disease

[ezzmae]

Disease

Evening time in aussie land. For me I have got passed the 5pm saturday slump. I am in no danger for the rest of the night, hubby has gone to get himself some ciders, yuk! I am a fussy drinker.

Network, if you are a student in Sydney why don't you join a student group. I loved Sydney, that is probably where my drinking started to get really out of hand.

[Mags]

Disease

Its not a disease its a weakness. We are weak. We dont know how to cope with every day stress thats it. My weakness is i cannot pick up a girl when i am sober even when i know that a girl likes me. I'm shy, its not disease its a weakness.

Oh, I'm so sorry for you Network. You can't pick up a girl when you are sober. So if I can't pick up a guy when I am sober, does that mean I am weak, also? I can tell you that I have been married almost 26 years. But if I cannot pick up a guy sober, then I am weak?

I am a scientist and am having trouble following your logic. Is your weakness that you can't pick up a girl or that you drink too much? Your data is unclear. My decision is that we need more information to come to a logical conclusion. This is spurious at best.

Would you please supply a definition of disease? I have many in my textbooks which I use to teach my college courses. Which one are you referring to? To me, alcoholism falls under every definition of a physiological abnormality. Obviously some bodies process alcohol differently just as some bodies process lactose and other substances differently. No big biochemical secret there. I would not call that a disease. I would call that an abnormality, albeit one with great consequences.

I am proud to say that I am an extremely strong person who is an alcoholic. We are not weak people. I do not drink. Some of us do and some of us don't. But we are not weak. We are all standing strong together are working with one another. We are like a chain, one link is as strong as the other.

I'm sorry you can't pick up girls. If that's all you care about, then grow up. If you are weak, then grow up.

[network]

Disease

Mags,
i feel completely misunderstood here. There is so data here. There is no logic so you cannot come to logical conclusion. Here is just a person who tries to put his life together and i'm sure its not logical in any sense.

[ezzmae]

Disease

You say you drink because you are shy. As people who abuse AL we all find our own excuses. I drink as a destresser, as a reward, to relax. In the long term AL gives me none of those things.
In the long term AL will detract from your confidence, probably already has because you think that you cannnot talk to a girl without AL. I guess that you are hitting the pub/nightclub scene when you want to met a girl. Maybe the girl is also drunk. It is a cycle, that only you can break. You can do it, only you can make the changes.

[Last Of The Summer Wine]

Disease

Mags - it's not often I post here because there are so many people who are helpful, kind and understanding who give far better advice and support than I can. You, however, are not one of them and I am angry at your response to Network's plea for help. How dare you!

Network, the majority of people here, with the same problems as you have, do understand you. Please don't be put off by rude, up-their-own-arse idiots!
J

[tawnyfrog]

Disease

Hi Network and welcome

I actually don't care what we call it. I just know I drank too much for my own happiness. I also understand what you mean about having the confidence to meet women when sober. Most of us here lack confidence in some form or other.

Well done on the 8 days!

[Charliegirl]

Disease

Hi Network

I have low self confidence and a few drinks used to give me courage, but your self confidence and self esteem is then completely destroyed because of the fool you made of yourself when you were drunk. Why don't you try a group like "toastmasters" to give you a lift in the confidence stakes. You are going strong being 8 days AF over the Christmas/New Year break and you should be very proud of yourself.

[veritas]

Disease

Net, I drink for many reasons. What makes me different to the person who does not drink lies in the way that alcohol is processed.

I have spoken to many people who hate the effect of alcohol. That does not make them stronger or better only different. I know that I could never be addicted to barbiturates, I feel too spaced out and dead.

I have a son who gets sleepy on even one drink and needs to go to bed. He is a strappy young 6 foot plus. I already know which one of my children is most likely to become addicted. Like me, she gets a lift and a feeling of euphoria. I do not consider my daughter to be weaker than my son. I worry and I fear for her, because the positive re-enforcemet of alcohol is so seductive.

The reason that I worry about you calling it a "weakness", is that you are labeling yourself in a very negative light. That will destroy your self esteem even more.

When I start to label myself negatively, I look at all the creative, clever, kind, saintly and sensitive people who share this struggle. We are all, both saints and sinners.

I have met sober alcoholics who stand head and shoulders above those around them.
Why?
Because they have had to dig deep to fight their demons and because of this, they have real compassion.

[nancy]

Disease

I think there have been some misunderstandings about Network's post.

I think he is just presenting one argument about the causes of alcoholism. I think when he says weakness he is not saying it really in a negative way, after all he is using the word to describe himself.

What he is saying is that he thinks the cause of alcoholism is not physical but psychological. I just read a whole book about this called Heart of Addiction. The premise is that we feel helpless and use alcohol to regain a sense of control. It's not about the substance but about the psychological problem underlying it (maybe network would call it a weakness but a lot of neurotic problems feel unmanageable so I might use another word.) This explains why people swap addictions, because the source of the addiction is not the substance itself but the urge underlying it. So network seems to be saying he would like to resolve the underlying urge and not see alcoholism as a disease in its own right.

But really, it seems that there are a lot of unknowns about what is going on with alcoholism, very complex with psychological and physical components. We have gone back and forth about whether it is a disease or not many times on this forum so I don't think network is saying anything out of the arguments we have heard before.

Anyway, welcome Network and I hope you find some insights here. In particular, you might look out for posts by Work In Progress, who has written a lot about meditation and I think this might help you.

[Evie.Lou]

Disease

I guess that really depends on how you define disease...
Alcohol sure causes DIS EASE in every part of my life.

[bestlifeldms]

Disease

Net, Congratulations on 8 days! It continues to get better each day. This is definately a controversial subject here, and really just a matter of individual "opinion". Which differs from person to person. There for it is not debatable as fact. Even the scientific community cannot agree. Just my two cents worth. I cringe at the word alcoholic, alcoholism, disease. Maybe because, as my grandmother used to say "If the truth hurts, perhaps it should!" She was usually right... These terms are just words defining a broad group of symtoms. I believe we, as individuals, have a problem with alochol that is unique to each of us. The underlying issues, the triggers, etc. Different to each person here. I spent tons of time reading and trying to understand and justify, the whys and whats of my drinking too much. It really came down to admitting, that I can not drink like other people. Basically, I just had to decide to quit. Not trying to over simplify this... It certainly is extremely complex. I just think that there would be as many different and unique definitions of the problems with alcohol, as there are members here. Good luck with your continued sobriety. 8 days is awesome!

[network]

Disease

Veritas,
Thank you for response. What i meant was that we as a human race in genaral are weak. As we grow we make mistakes, we need to learn from them and get stronger. Once we know where the weaknesses are, we can improve there. Once we improve in those areas we no longer needs stimulants to live our lives.
You know i was so happy to realise it that i wanted to share it with you. It helped me a lot to understand that and i thought that it might help some people here as well.

P.S Veritas, thank you for posting

[veritas]

Disease

Net, we are all in this together, vulnerable and struggling. I can hear that you are trying to make sense of it all.

[A Work in Progress]

Disease

Network, I join others in welcoming you here and congratulating you on 8 days AF! However, I totally agree with Mags on this one. Maybe that's because I am a scientist, as well: a behavioral scientist. And maybe it's also because I found the "I have to have it to pick up a girl" complaint fairly annoying. But... your attitude toward women, or girls, is not the issue here.

Calling alcohol dependence a "weakness" is neither accurate, nor helpful. Calling the condition a "disease" is accurate in some ways; and it is helpful in some ways, not so helpful in others. As Mags pointed out, there are various definitions of the term "disease." The problem with the "disease" label is not that scientists disagree about whether alcoholism "really" is a disease, but with the fact that the condition has strong behavioral and psychological components, and so it does not fit the stricter definitions that cover most conditions, like cancer or pneumonia, that do NOT have behavioral and psychological aspects. There is in fact little, if any, disagreement over the fact that alcohol dependence is a brain condition and abnormality that has (like schizophrenia) a strong genetic component, and that is made much worse simply by the consumption of alcohol.

The "weakness" explanation is precisely the predominant paradigm that existed early in the 20th century, and before that. That explanation assumes that everyone has the same physiological response to alcohol, but that whereas most people are psychologically or morally strong enough to drink moderately, there are others, who are presumed to be "weak," who just drink themselves stupid, over and over again. All of society, justifiably (by their own logic), looked down on them. That explanation is simply false.

Those fortunate individuals who are not affected by the physiological difference that we call "alcoholism" simply stop drinking when they don't want any more, and they simply do not want nearly as much as alcoholics do. They have a properly functioning brain in that respect, one that "knows when to stop." Drinking excessively is NOT attractive or pleasurable to them, and so they don't do it.

It won't help you to call yourself "weak." It will, however, help you to use all the strength that you have to develop a good, effective plan to continue to change your behavior, so that you are no longer suffering from the effects of alcohol abuse or dependence.

[brightlite]

Disease

Network,

I hate the idea that I have a disease. I certainly do have an addiction that if continues will change the structure of my brain neurotranmitters in a way that will be extremely hard to reverse it will then be beyond just a mere addiction, but more likely a disease.

I have read that the binge drinker is the worst kind with regard to health and your organs. It is such an assault to your organs that slowly but surely causes irreparable damage. So much more so than just the daily drinker.

Also, if it is the hangover that you cannot deal with, why continue to drink??? Do you not know what is causing the hangovers? Of course you do. There may be other issues that you need to deal with besides your shyness. Someone that knowingly abuses themselves has other possibly deep issues that they need to address.

Sorry if I sound a bit abrupt. I usually say what is on my mind.