Any Jewish drinkers out there?

[MonaCat]

I am reading a book that says only 1% of the Jewish population develops alcoholism. Wow, I am wondering if any other Jewish drinkers are out there, or am I alone?

[Newyear]

Any Jewish drinkers out there?

monacat-
I'm not Jewish but that is facinating. I have two very good friends who are Jewish and they seem to be able to take it or leave it...and neither have a very high tolerance - more than two and they would have to sleep it off on my couch.

lisa

[YoungAtHeart]

Any Jewish drinkers out there?

Honorary Jew

Sorry, Mona,

I'm a Goy, Oy! Grew up on Long Island though, with lots of Jewish friends, but I've got the tolerance of the Scotch Irish Wasp!!! Oy-vay! I have a few Jewish friends who have a higher tolerance, but they're not on this site--they haven't developed a real "problem"--they can still take it or leave it! Lucky them!

Hugs,
Kathy:l

[Allie]

Any Jewish drinkers out there?

Mona,
I know you are serious, but you crack me up! Before I met my husband, I was dating a jewish guy. He could chuggle it, believe me. I knew I had a problem then, but didnt think he did. Thought he had it all under control, because "after all", he was a doctor. Some times when we would go out, when it would come time to order dinner, he would say, "I could just be totally happy dipping bread in wine!" ( I was secretly thinking the same thing, but I was not going to tell HIM that!)

Anyway, I didnt marry him for many other reasons having nothing to do with jewish or wine, but that was 13 years ago.(had more to do with my kids) He wound up being my biggest client for my business and I had to see him in June for the first time in all these years. ( I know, but with my business, I dont have to deal with the docs directly). Anyway, we all had a big dinner and I talked to him for quite a while and he wound up telling me that he had struggled with alcohol and benzos for the entire time he has had his practice. His now wife had an intervention about a year ago, which landed him in rehab for 12 weeks. He almost lost his practice. I was just wondering why business was so slow for three months! LOL!

So yes, you are not alone. But I would comment from what I have learned from having many close jewish friends, is that they seem to teach or "learn" how to drink wisely? I know that is not for all of them, but I think they take it more seriously and tie it more to celebrations, but they also introduce it younger but place high value on it. I am not jewish, so I am only passing on what my good jewish friends have passed on. I see that most jewish people love a good red wine, and are all about family. So that is all I know... me and my little german/irish self! But I love my jewish friends, and I dont think you are alone.

Allie

[MonaCat]

Any Jewish drinkers out there?

Allie, aww..the Jewish Doctor, I have one of those too.

[Allie]

Any Jewish drinkers out there?

another thought...

I was thinking after I posted that, and I remembered something my best friend (jewish) said to me. And realize this was when I was trying to talk to her that "I might have a problem"....

And she said, "What to you define as a problem?"

I personally have not waivered from what I think is a problem. But in response again to the jewish culture, I think that wine in particular, is such a symbolic part of the culture, that it was almost foreign to her that I could have a problem. Its like a "normal" part of their day. So it is not something to be craved? (I am only guessing).

But I guess she would fall under that category of perfect balance? I dont know! But it was almost foreign to her that as she held her glass of wine, that she could comprehend that I could struggle with it. Definitely food for thought...

Allie

[Guest]

Any Jewish drinkers out there?

Jewish drinkers

Hi,
I'm new here but I heard about this post from a friend who knew I had a Jewish boyfriend who was an alcoholic (he died of it). Well, we know alcoholism is partly genetic and we know anecdotally its not common among Jews. Does the ceremonial use of wine help? It could be, but I bet the genetics is a stronger factor.
One of the reasons my boyfriend (let's call him "H") fooled us all for so long is that we were a bunch of Jews who didn't have any personal experience with alcoholism. I had a former roommate who was a WASP (with an alcoholic mother and father)who thought his overdrinking was normal and didn't need treatment. He had a therapist and two psychiatrists treating him for depression, all Jewish, who were all clueless. The one who was treating him at the time he drank himself to death actually was an addiction specialist at Bellevue (drugs, not alcohol) and I had made my own appointment with him and told him, Don't believe anything H says, he will lie very persausively when he's drinking. Yet even so this guy waited too long, believed one of H's last lies and didn't call the police until three days after he was dead. I wouldn't be surprised if his being Jewish was one of the causes for his complete failure here.
I had my own therapist, Jewish, who was helping me deal with my confusion about the relationship and he never had any eureka moments either. The only person who "got it" was a close friend, also Jewish, who she had spent her career as a parole officer working with drinkers. She saw the signs in me of someone who was going crazy because there was some indefinable thing wrong with my relationship and I couldn't put my finger on it. I was depressed because every time things were going really well for us--and we adored each other--we'd end up in some kind of fight that seemed mysterious and unnecessary. I felt so doomed. Somehow I never connected the dots that each time he was angry because I was blocking his access to alcohol. I remember one time he was furious because we were hiking somewhere and he wanted to get back in town to make a reservation for dinner. I was like, "we're having a great time, who cares where he eat?" But he was worried he'd end up without his fix for the evening and knew I wouldn't take it well if he had to go looking for a liquor store in a strange town at midnight to drink in our hotel room. I pieced this all later. All I knew then was he was angry that I didn't want to end our hike early and wouldn't speak to me for a couple of hours.
So, yes, Jews are rarely alcoholic in my experience and as a culture clueless about alcoholism (one of the posts mentions a friend who just doesn't "get it.") Of course, its not unknown about us. I don't know where the 1% comes from but sounds right.
The best message from this spin on my experience: it's good to have real friends from different backgrounds. The culture you're used to has its strengths and its blind spots. Since that time, I've made lots of close connections with non Jews. I didn't think about it all consciously, but it happenned that way and I'm glad. And I am as proud and grateful to be who I am.

[MKR]

Any Jewish drinkers out there?

Mona, that is too funny! Interesting concept.

I am not Jewish by birth. I have had many Jewish friends and my husband is Jewish. He drinks a LOT! Seems fine with it. He's a big guy and I think in the 15 years I have known him, I have seen him drunk only once, after my brother's bachelor party. (They were all such a mess!) He does have an extremely high tolerance. He does his share of party extras also. When I challenged him this past week to 30 days abs, he did not take me up on it. He said it has been years since he did not drink every day. Now, where in that picture is the take it or leave it? . . . even the if you require one drink a day, are you an alcoholic? My F-I-L drinks a double to triple vodka every night that I have seen. Is that an alcoholic? I don't know. I have never seen him drunk though. He would say he is not, my husband would say he is not also.

Perspective, perspective, perspective. Where is the gray area to that. . . .total black and white?

I think the question bears in mind, is it forbidden fruit with children raised in a "no alcohol can not touch your lips until you are twenty one" household. I tried really hard to not let that happen to my own children and poured wine for special occassions. Hard to say whether that was a good or bad thing. My sons are 23 and 20 - don't know yet . . .(they are both fast tracking into medical professions so I have to say, they are super responsible kids.)

My sons are not Jewish, but Irish from their dad's side! They do drink even the 20 year old, but not usually to that excessive level traveled by a lot of college kids.

Thanks for the food for thought!
Hugs, Mary

[YoungAtHeart]

Any Jewish drinkers out there?

Obviously, there are, as usual, exceptions to every rule.....! Mary, boy, do I agree with your thoughts about the forbidden fruit issue!!! I wish that we could bring up our kids with a realistic perspective about alcohol! I am worried about my daughter in a way, because she is SOO anti-drinking and drugs! I had thought that there was only alcoholism on my dad's side of the family, but recently learned that my mom's side had plenty, too. I have talked with my daughter about her genetic vulnerability to alcoholism, but so far, she blows it off. Like your sons, she is quite the solid little citizen, even though only 16, and fortunately, my drinking has been more the closet, quiet kind and not the loud, rambunctious, "Look, neighbors, mom's a big drunk" kind. I guess you and I will have to see how this all plays out!

At any rate, this is a fascinating thread!!! I also think, regarding Jewishness, that there are probably a lot of factors that come into play besides just the religion. There is the level of family observance and participation in the religious community, the family culture, whether there are "mixed marriages" (I hate that term!!) and probably how open the family is to other religions and practices, as well.

Oh well.... And to "Unregistered", I'm so sorry for your loss, however long ago it was--not clear from your post. I'm glad that you came along and made your contribution. Thanks for sharing your experience with us. I hope you will pop back on if you have anything further to say, and please feel free to correct anything that I have said. My Jewish friends tease me that I'm an "honorary Jew", but truly, I think that I am sadly deficient in knowledge of your religion and traditions, and I am quite willing to stand corrected, if necessary!

Kathy

[Lucy Van Pelt]

Any Jewish drinkers out there?

Mona Cat

Well I finally found the other person making up the one percent lol!! Yes, I am Jewish and I definately have alcohol issues!! I have heard the old saying that us Jews somehow genetically are "unable" to be alcoholics, but you and I are proof that the saying is definately not true!! Actually, there is a group in existance called JACS (Jewish Alcoholics,Chemically Dependant Persons and Significant others) based on the 12 step model, so obviously the problem is out there. I think the stigma may even be bigger for us Jewish folks, as it is "not supposed to be a problem for us". Well, I will tell you that I have even gotten buzzed off of Passover wine, but only in a pinch when I had nothing better to choose from. I am happy to say that I have found some really great success since June on this program, with Topamax and the support of others here. I hope you find the same!

Anyway, nice to meet you.

Beth

[Allie]

Any Jewish drinkers out there?

Beth!
I didnt know you were Jewish! That's so cool! I know you are wondering why that is a big deal, but I will explain some other time. LOL! Its funny, I was thinking about you today and wondering why the Topa worked like magic for you, and you were able to completely abstain when you started taking it. But now that you say you are Jewish... I wonder if the Topamax works better for jewish people! Seriously! Mona, do you take Topa? I dont know... just a thought!

For some reason, my closest friends always wind up being jewish! I love you guys!

[deanie]

Any Jewish drinkers out there?

Hi Mona Cat,

Great question...I converted to Judiasm 24 years ago. I am the typical waspy looking shiksa (?). English, Irish, German, Scotish. I married a nice jewish boy and have lived happily ever after. For the most part. Anyway, on my mom's side there is alcoholism. My grandfather and now my mom. I have been involved in the jewish community and have many close friends who are jews. Your post got me thinking. I cannot think of one of our jewish friends or family members who seem to drink excessively. That is strange. My husband's brother died of a drug overdose many years ago. I do know of several jews who struggled with drug addiction. Perhaps the alcohol abuse is much less seen, maybe more of the illegal drug use. I don't have any real perspective on the 1% data. I believe it though. My hubby can take it or leave it. Truly. One beer and he's fine. We went to Israel earlier this year with a large group, 20 plus people. I must say the only one concerned about having wine with dinner was ME! I made sure to have wine at dinner and didn't feel very much like sharing the bottle either. We ate as a group and I would order a bottle, and would get irratated when my husband would offer a glass to someone, or if one of our friends helped themselves. That was crazy. I was embarrassed to have to order another bottle, because I did not get my fill. Doing much better now. I could share a bottle now, since I am no longer drinking the whole bottle by myself! Yipee!

Peace,

Deanie

[MKR]

Any Jewish drinkers out there?

Ok, Deanie, this does get away from the drinking aspect for the moment. . . just after we were married, we went to New York for a week. Cleaning up in my in laws kitchen, special silverware for specific dishes etc. I was trying to make sure I put everything away just right when my new bother in law came in and said, "Oh NO!" I said, "Oh NO what?" He said, "You are using the kosher sponge!" (He had me going for a moment as none of my Jewish friends had ever mentioned the sacred kosher sponge.) My husband just laughed and hugged his "shiksa!"

Still Giggling , Mary

[deanie]

Any Jewish drinkers out there?

Hi Mary,

That is a cute story. Oy Vey! I can relate.

Peace,

Deanie

[MKR]

Any Jewish drinkers out there?

Deanie, very funny. I am still not sure what Oy Vey means!

Mary