Progress Report (and Hello) from A Work In Progress

[beatle]

Progress Report (and Hello) from A Work In Progress

WIP, I'm not sure we really disagree. I agree with just about everything you wrote (except the part about self-medicating, but I'm not going to get into that now). I think we just come from different standpoints and different experiences.

I have indeed done many of the things you specify, and with a good deal of positive results (meaning my alcohol consumption has decreased considerably).

I agree that the changes we make in our thinking, in our lifestyle, and in our environment, plus a true commitment to getting completely sober, play important roles .

I guess I was just provoked by the strong emphasis you put on willpower, although it is, of course, an element in the process. I feel your approach puts too much guilt and burden on the person (alcoholic person, I mean), who is so very burdened already. Those who are striving, like myself, and really doing whatever they can to fight this horrible disease... well, they don't need to be told they should exert more willpower.

As for medications, I have not had any success with them for alcohol problems, and I am generally skeptical regarding medications of any sort. I do have high hopes for Baclofen, however, as a medication that will give alcoholics a fighting chance. As always, we all have to do our own "inner work", but to be relieved of the "outer work" might make that easier.

I stand by my last two sentences:

Willpower is a good thing. But it may not be enough.

There is hope for everyone who wants to become well, and willpower is not necessarily the only answer.
_

[me1455]

Progress Report (and Hello) from A Work In Progress

hey beatle and work in progress, I agree with both of you but I have to say i agree with what beatle is saying to. and i dont think "slip ups" should be looked at as you say. no one in the world is perfect. so if us alcoholics slip up, it shouildnt be looked at as a bad thing. we should just attempt to pick ourselves up again. however im very glad you are sober and happy. obviousally intelligent. it takes an intelligent person to be able to look at the drinking and realize its all fake as far as making us feel happy and better.

[Cinders]

Progress Report (and Hello) from A Work In Progress

WIP,

It is great to see you!! And even better to hear you sounding so well.

I do hope you can drop in from time to time.

You have been missed.

Love,
Cindi

[A Work in Progress]

Progress Report (and Hello) from A Work In Progress

Hey, Dexterhead... yes, it's definitely both "miserable" and "complicated." A very complex problem, I think everyone agrees about that. So, a multi-faceted approach is needed, including a lot of work inside our own minds. I know you work hard at this and I wish you well.

Louise, good to hear from you! Yes, it has been quite a year. I'd be pleased if the next year is just a little bit easier... we'll see! I hope you're doing well.

Beatle, you have always been a remarkably kind, generous, and helpful person here on MWO. I hope you know I am totally sincere in hoping that you are finding an approach that will bring you peace and that will win you a separation from all the pain that alcohol brings with it. I certainly don't want to argue with you. I understand what you mean about an emphasis on "will-power" being at least potentially, and sometimes actually, used either by alcoholics or their families, doctors, etc., as a stick to beat them with. Which is a damned shame. But that does not change the fact that, when all is said and done, we human beings ultimately have control over our thoughts, actions, and reactions. It takes work to gain that control, but at least as a potential, it is there. It isn't just like throwing a light-switch (not like the old Nancy Reagan "just say no" approach), it doesn't happen just by hoping that it will happen, but if we do not insist on gaining the strength to control our own lives, our own behavior, our own environments... then we are lacking in maturity, and will not have the kinds of lives we otherwise could have. Some of us start pretty late along this road (I did), but nevertheless it is a road that can be trod. Slowly at first, and then with more speed and strength, and eventually it gets easier.

[A Work in Progress]

Progress Report (and Hello) from A Work In Progress

Hey Cindi! Love to you, too. I've missed you and lots of others here, as well....

me1455... nice to meet you.

[CS04]

Progress Report (and Hello) from A Work In Progress

I have not read thru the whole thread, but welcome back, WIP.

[The New Me]

Progress Report (and Hello) from A Work In Progress

Hello,

Not that I have any right to get in between two veterans, being a novice at MWO and sobriety. You are both extremely insightful and intelligent people. After reading both of your posts I have an intuition that I want to share - for whatever it is worth.

I believe what WIP is talking about is the will power to learn about yourself, clean and pure - prior to drinking, chemical dependency, free of the medicating - and have a will power to honor that person, who does not need this sort of influence in his/her life. Learning about this person and defending this chosen life style, indeed takes will power and commitment.
Beatle is talking about the ability to create the space to do this learning, which cannot be done in drunker stupor. The space is created in a sober mind, even if the sobriety lasts for only few days.
So, you are both talking about the same thing, except WIP created the space by total abstinence and Beatle is doing it in intervals. You are both heading in the same direction - WIP took the highway and Beatle is taking detours.
Does this make any sense to anybody?

[beatle]

Progress Report (and Hello) from A Work In Progress

A Work in Progress;663728 wrote:
Beatle, you have always been a remarkably kind, generous, and helpful person here on MWO. I hope you know I am totally sincere in hoping that you are finding an approach that will bring you peace and that will win you a separation from all the pain that alcohol brings with it. I certainly don't want to argue with you. I understand what you mean about an emphasis on "will-power" being at least potentially, and sometimes actually, used either by alcoholics or their families, doctors, etc., as a stick to beat them with. Which is a damned shame. But that does not change the fact that, when all is said and done, we human beings ultimately have control over our thoughts, actions, and reactions. It takes work to gain that control, but at least as a potential, it is there. It isn't just like throwing a light-switch (not like the old Nancy Reagan "just say no" approach), it doesn't happen just by hoping that it will happen, but if we do not insist on gaining the strength to control our own lives, our own behavior, our own environments... then we are lacking in maturity, and will not have the kinds of lives we otherwise could have. Some of us start pretty late along this road (I did), but nevertheless it is a road that can be trod. Slowly at first, and then with more speed and strength, and eventually it gets easier.

Well, see here is where we really don't see eye to eye.

"...we human beings ultimately have control over our thoughts, actions, and reactions."

I could not disagree with this statement more. We obviously do not have control over our thoughts, although we might try to. Please let me know if there is a way to control your thoughts. That would be a breakthrough in some science or the other.

I do agree that we have (or can have) control over our actions-- as in physical actions. But do we have control of our reactions? Seriously, who has control of their reactions (which are nothing but emotions)? If you mean reactions in terms of physical actions in response to an outside stimulus, yes, we should have control over that-- but that falls under the category of "actions".

"Lacking in maturity"... please explain this. I think that the majority of alcoholics trying to regain a life of freedom from alcohol have plenty of maturity... far more than the fortunate non-alcoholics, who don't have to struggle every day of their life with this.

[boozehag]

Progress Report (and Hello) from A Work In Progress

The way I see it is there is the logical part of our brain and the emotional part. The logical part knows we should not drink and in my case did not even want to drink due to the inevitable horrible consequences but it still happened and over a long period of time I failed to have any control over it despite desperately wanting to. The fact that the logical part of the brain and the emotional part want different things creates the constant battle we all experience - logic telling us that drink is bad for us and will hurt us but emotional brain just says I don’t care I want instant gratification now and lots of it. If we give in to emotional brain and give it alcohol the logical brain is shut off temporarily – until tomorrow that is when logical brain comes back and gives us hell about our failure to do what we claimed we wanted. Until our brain is retrained so that what we want emotionally is the same or close to what our logical brain wants we will have a constant battle on our hands and will power alone is not enough or at best is temporary. Like training for anything actually retraining our brain is hard but with the right plan and the right tools it can be done and once you get there the calmness and peace of mind you get when emotionally you don’t want to drink and logically you don’t want to drink gives total peace of mind – despite any other shit you might be experiencing in your life.
RJ must have realized that willpower or logic alone would not help her and that is presumably why she developed the MWO program for herself and then made it available to the rest of us. Her plan for sucess did not involve will power or support alone it involved many tools such as medication, supplements, exercise, hypnos and no doubt a desire to succeed.
Nice to see you again WIP as although we may not all agree discussion on these issues is good for everyone.
M

[TimeToLoveMyLiver]

Progress Report (and Hello) from A Work In Progress

Hi Beatle.

I think what WIP means about controlling thoughts is this.

I have the ability to entertain a negative thought that enters my head or I can instantly change it for a more productive one the moment I become aware of it. The more this is practiced the easier it becomes. My head used to be full of nothing but negative thoughts and negative self chatter. Once I started using this technique my life has improved immeasurably.

Stay strong.

Brett.

[peacenik]

Progress Report (and Hello) from A Work In Progress

hey ya wip!
i haven't logged in here for quite some time and lo and behold the first time i do, there you are again!
great to know you are well...

me, not so much, but will always keep on trying.

peace!

[Sunbeam]

Progress Report (and Hello) from A Work In Progress

WIP,
It is great to hear that you continue to do well. I will always appreciate all I learned from you. Your presence is greatly missed by many of us.

The conversation about controlling our thoughts is interesting. I had that conversation with a yoga instructor last summer. I find thoughts sometimes intrusive, I want to say, "Shut up already!". She felt that meditation was a form of dealing with these thoughts. Strategies like putting the thought "I want a drink" in a mental balloon, then watch it drift up up and away. Perhaps this is different from willpower. I still need to use tools like this to control my eating now more than drinking, so thanks to both of you for my inspiration of the day.

[Evie.Lou]

Progress Report (and Hello) from A Work In Progress

The New Me;663753 wrote: Hello,

Not that I have any right to get in between two veterans, being a novice at MWO and sobriety. You are both extremely insightful and intelligent people. After reading both of your posts I have an intuition that I want to share - for whatever it is worth.

I believe what WIP is talking about is the will power to learn about yourself, clean and pure - prior to drinking, chemical dependency, free of the medicating - and have a will power to honor that person, who does not need this sort of influence in his/her life. Learning about this person and defending this chosen life style, indeed takes will power and commitment.
Beatle is talking about the ability to create the space to do this learning, which cannot be done in drunker stupor. The space is created in a sober mind, even if the sobriety lasts for only few days.
So, you are both talking about the same thing, except WIP created the space by total abstinence and Beatle is doing it in intervals. You are both heading in the same direction - WIP took the highway and Beatle is taking detours.
Does this make any sense to anybody?

New Me, That was VERY WELL SAID !!!
Here we have two MWO veterans that have alot MORE in common, then in discord !!!
I care for and respect you both sooo much !!!
Why not just agree to disagree and go your own PATHS ???
Make sense to me !!!

[Pamina]

Progress Report (and Hello) from A Work In Progress

Hi WIP,

It's LOVELY to *see* you!! I was hoping you'd drop in for your anni next week, you've been missed!

I'm glad to hear you're doing well AL-wise and plugging along with the FL project.

I'm happily abstinent and chipping away at improved emotional regulation. I was just thinking of you, in fact, as I'm in the process of researching yoga/meditation venues in London. There's so many strands it does my head in.

I hope you'll pass by from time to time.

[rubywillow]

Progress Report (and Hello) from A Work In Progress

Hey WIP. You've been on my mind lately, but I've been so ever-loving busy no time to keep up even the e-mail contacts! Lovely to see you here, and read you words, always so well-thought and well-written.
Rubes