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[InnerStrength]

A MUST READ

Amazing

Wow I thought this story was amazing and so thought provoking. To be honest, I too have been thinking about this issue a lot (whether moderation is really realistic for me). I am wondering if the topa is "allowing" me or giving me an excuse to drink more often (because I drink slower...dont get out of control, so I am not afraid to drink more often during the week....) I have some concerns that perhaps I am sliding down a slippery slope....especially because I am DEFINITELY one of those people who craves/desires that "buzz"...
Who knows, I may be moving over to the abs board soon because I think it might be best for me (at least a period of abs)
Why is it so scary??:egad:

[peaches]

A MUST READ

Mike,
Have you showed this program to your Mother? I'm 61 & I love it. I use to drink a bottle of wine a night. Now, maybe it's one or two glasses.
Pea

[Bambino]

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Jenneh

I know what you you mean - it IS really scary... When i was driving back from the shops before, i was thinking, it's a bit like when your dad teaches you how to ride a bike... when you think he's holding the back of the bike - you're full of confidence, but what you didn't realise was, that he had actually let go and you had pedalled off still full of confidence that he had hold of you - so you were safe... but as soon as you turn around and see him yards behind, and realise you'd done it on your own - your confidence disappears, and BANG you fall off. - Although - you HAD ridden those yards on your own.

That drink is like your dad holding your bike

You can do it on your own - it isn't easy, and maybe we all still do fall off that bike occasionally, ( and don't I KNOW IT !!! ) but little by little I reckon your confidence in yourself builds and builds.

I was also thinking about 'normal ' people' who can go to the pub for a couple, then leave, go home and carry on with their lives. And I SO envy that. I used to be that person - but not anymore.

I also envy people on here that can moderate... I can't do that either.
I read a post by I think a new member the other day who just wanted to moderate - which is fine , if you can do it, but they said I don't want to be a sad abstainer... That made me upset, because I am so much happier being abstinent than a slave and a zombie and ANGRY. And I don't want to be classed as 'SAD' thank you very much.
I am happy now - I just pray that now I can turn around and look back at my dad yards away and carry on pedalling - on my own...

Good luck Jenn
You know whatever you decide, and whatever pitfalls lie ahead, everyone here is rooting for you sweetheart xxx :l

[mikeupnorth]

A MUST READ

Well said, Bambi -- I love the image of riding the bike and slowly gaining confidence --

I agree that abstaining does not equal sad or boring. If you think about your life before you added alcohol to it (whatever age that was, 18, 14, 21?) was your life sad and boring before that? Human beings were not engineered to NEED alcohol.... we were engineered to need oxygen, food, water, sex.... and that's about it. It's only our society and a certan amount of brainwashing that we've undergone that has convinced us that we need alcohol in order to be happy or have fun -- and I'm in the process of REVERSE brainwashing myself right now. So for those who think they can drink normally, especially after having problems with alcohol, my hat's off to them. This boy has tried it and can't. And there's no shame in that. What's more, why should I want to? Alcohol has caused me so much misery -- why tempt fate? Especially when it's not something I NEED? (Sorry for ranting, it's just where I'm at right now!)

and Peaches: I haven't mentioned this program to my Mom yet. In fact I haven't even talked to her about my quitting drinking. I live 5,000 miles from her and we talk on the phone weekly, and I will see her at Christmas. God willing, as long as things are still going well for me then, I will tell her all about it. As far as I know she doesn't think she has a drinking problem, but who knows? Maybe seeing the change in me will turn on a light bulb for her.... there is nothing I'd love more than to see her turn her life around, but she has to want it for herself, as we all know. Heck, if she were to try, I would even consider moving back there to give her support.

Mike

[southernbelle47]

A MUST READ

I too read the post that said abs was "sad"......I don't think they had any idea what they were talking about!
I've never been happier!

I can eat and sleep and I don't have to be ashamed of my actions and I don't have to hide anything from anybody!

Life is good!!

Come on over to Absville........The gate is open..anyone!

Nancy:l

[Allie]

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This is a very interesting thread, and I spent some time reading through it as well this morning and can identify with so much of the thought processes shared.

As most of you know, my Mom was diagnosed with cancer last week and we are awaiting the final diagnosis later this week as to the type, although they are pretty sure. What I havent mentioned is that my Dad is a terrible alcoholic, but did not become this way until his early fifties. I think there were some things that happened that triggered the onset of his drinking to numb pain, but nonetheless, it has gotten so awful. It really scares me, especially to see someone start drinking that late in life and it progress to this point. He just turned 65, as did my Mom. I can relate to the so sad feeling of having to watch a parent or loved one isolate themselves and choose to die alone. He has gotten so bad that he is falling down in the middle of the night almost every night and hitting his head on things. It is a miracle he hasnt killed himself by accident, or someone else. He constantly has bruises on himself, cuts on his head, etc. Last week he fell in the bathroom in the middle of the night and busted a pipe and water started shooting all into their apartment and flooded it as well as the people below them. All Dad did was crawl right back in bed and my poor Mom had to put her robe on at 3 a.m. and deal with it alone. And yes, this was two days before she was diagnosed with cancer. The next day she threw a royal fit and he shaped up for a few days. But now that he has learned of her diagnosis, he has buried himself in the bottle again. Mom said yesterday he started drinking at 9:30 a.m. on a brand new BIG jug of vodka. By 1:30 in the afternoon he was sitting on the sofa and could hardly hold his eyes open and had urinated all over himself. He was supposed to catch a plane this morning at six-thirty for a business trip, but instead woke up and could not remember what day it was. He walked out the door in a stupor with no suitcase, no extra clothes...only his laptop computer and of course he missed his plane. He probably caught another flight, but...... this is really a terrifying time for me to see both of my parents in totally opposite, but equally life-threatning situations. I am afraid neither one of them will be alive very soon.

Sorry for the rant... but all this to say that why would anyone choose to drink again and again to wake up and live a life like that? I love him dearly. My brother, who is a doctor in Atlanta is going to confront him this week. (Dad is in Atlanta on business). My brother and I, as well as my older sister are trying to figure out what to do. He does not want help. This is such a heavy burden. Sheez..... :upset:

Has anyone with alcoholic parents had any success with loving confrontations?

Allie

[Bambino]

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Mike, You are absolutely right... We are mammals, who exist to procreate, and to sustain this, we need oxygen and food,,, but what sets us apart is our social interaction.
Now speaking from my own experiences, in my 20's, interaction and social eventing without alcohol was FUN FUN FUN... but something happened along the way and I couldn't be that happy go lucky person any more... in retrospect - perhaps I just grew up... I don;t know.
Anyway I didn't want to let go of that person, so enlisted a partner in crime ( alcohol ) so that i wasn't perceived to be 'boring' and I still wanted to hear - ' Liz, you're mad as a box of frogs ' ( no offence Tawny !!! )
So alcohol took over my usual personality - just to make it... well the usual Liz... But in retrospect it was all a facade.
It was i sign that it WAS time to grow up - but I ignored it because I didn't want to grow up.
BUT little by little he became a con-artist... making me not just 'Liz' anymore, but - let's go right over the top and make a right show of yourself. And do you know, I can imagine 'him' standing in the corner,laughing at the damage he was doing and enjoying it.
It makes me feel better personifying it... it makes it easier to stand up to . Who can hold a grudge over an inanimate glass bottle - especially when you are the one who has picked if off the shelf.
Today has been a milestone for me 7 days - and I am properly serious this time, not like last time I was abs and i laughed and joked.
People's reactions to me after the 'you know what' has bored straight into my heart. I didn't take it as a joke before, but I didn't take it seriously enough.
Your stories, support and continued friendship through those those dark days have shown clearly how dear to my heart you all really are.

I still can't help with my facitious quips, but I guess you all know that by now !!!

Love to all of you here on the Abstrain !!!! - Love It !!!
xxxx

[Lucy Van Pelt]

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to a good friend from a good friend

Allie-

No I don't have a situation like yours...but....i wish you lived next door. I would love to be able to be your good friend and just let you have my ear...so..if you are so inclined, private message me with your home number and give me a call. I am really good at being a good listener and a good friend, and would love to do that for you.

I hope to hear from you soon

Beth

[mikeupnorth]

A MUST READ

Wow Allie,

Sounds like your Dad has really hit bottom fast -- and just when your Mom needs his support the most. At least she has you and your brother and others(?) that she can count on during this most difficult time. It's really a heartbreaking situation and my thoughts and prayers are with you.

As for "loving confrontations" or interventions, I've ben involved in one. It was with a friend of mine -- an ex, actually -- who had gotten hooked on crystal meth. Long story, and very ugly situation. The intervention itself was pretty uncomfortable for all involved. Tears were shed, promises were made (and later broken), hugs all around. I was hopeful, but found out soon afterward that he was still using. However it was not very long before he quit on his own, in his own way. So I think the intervention may have been a turning point, even though it didn't end up the way I had hoped (i.e. him going straight into a treatment center and doing traditional 12-step recovery). In retrospect that probably wouldn't have worked for him anyway. The point is, I think we planted a seed. If you and your brother can do that with your Dad, you've accomplished a lot. And it may in fact turn out even better -- he may wake up to reality and want to get better right away. At least you will have tried.

And Bambs -- I like your idea of personifying alcohol. It's much easier to fight a creature than a liquid, or some ambiguous mental obsession. It is like a monster that has warped and twisted us so much over the years that we hardly recognize ourselves any more. The wonderful thing is, though, that once we quit, it doesn't take that long to start seeing our true selves again. We really are remarkably resilient beings. The fact that we lived through all the years of abusing ourselves and we're still here is proof of that.

Wishing you all a good day, and I'm glad to be on this journey with you.

Mike

[Allie]

A MUST READ

Mike,
Thanks for sharing that story, as it is very encouraging. I have felt like it would certainly be a wake-up call, or eye opener for my Dad if his kids all sat him down and confronted the seriousness of it. However, I have had little hope that he would be able to regain control due to how much he drinks. But as you shared that story, I was reminded of a doctor actually that I used to work for that got hooked on pain killers. His practice grew so fast, his wife had three babies in about four years and he became overwhelmed and had easy access to them. No one knew until several years later, but his wife scheduled an intervention and his brother threatned to have his medical license revoked if he did not agree to rehab. He agreed, but it is 12 weeks for doctors vs. six weeks if you are not an MD. He was terrified his practice would go under during his absence. He relapsed within several weeks of completeling rehab, and told me that it was actually about five months later that he finally quit for good, but that is was a "place" that HE had to come to on his own, but that rehab had been a start.

So I will hold out hope that even if we dont see any noticeable changes right away, that it doesnt mean a seed wasnt planted. We havent done it yet, but are trying to figure the best way to go about it as we live in different states, etc.

Beth.... thank you so much. I am sending you a private EZ box. Hey! We are "almost" next door, right?? :l

Thanks,
Allie

[lushy]

A MUST READ

Allie, your story just breaks my heart. I pray and pray that your Dad will pull it together for your Mom (and you). He will so regret being like this when he was needed so much. I hope you have an open enough relationship with him that you can tell him that. Please keep us posted!!!!

[Roberta Jewell]

A MUST READ

Audrey

I know Audrey Kishline's very sad story well. In fact, in one of my first radio interviews a host made his feelings about me--and MWO--very apparent when he compared me to her. He warned in a hostile follow up email that I would probably end up the same way and that it was horribly irresponsible to promote such a program--despite the fact it was working brilliantly for me and many others. The only way to gain complete sobriety, he said, was to embrace the tenants of AA and begin attending meetings.

Like others, he didn't realize that's exactly what Kishline had been doing after abandoning moderation but before shattering the lives of innocent people.

Some things have changed since then. Advances in addiction research, for instance, and with it, the advent of powerful anti-craving medications. Approaching addiction with integrative therapies has also proven helpful to many drinkers.

But unfortunately, much remains the same. The MSNBC story is a painful reminder that we not delude ourselves about whether or not moderation is working for us. The consequences can be incomprehensibly tragic, as they were in Kishline's case. Her story continues to motivate me to share this message. It also reminds me that "harm reduction" is now a valid approach.

Stanton Peele, an addiction specialist and proponent of harm reduction in treating alcoholics says "Replacing zero-tolerance policy, it recognizes the certainty that some people will continue to use drugs and therefore that drug use will remain a fact of life in our society. With this in mind, it seeks to protect drug users ? and non-drug users exposed to drug users ? from the worst consequences of such use." Peele also cites research in which "failure" and "success" of study subjects is discussed. More here.

Moderation management didn't work for the woman who developed it, but neither did AA. I have always wondered how things would have turned out had MWO been available to her. Maybe, like many here, she would have started with a goal of moderation and changed it once she realized it wasn't for her.

I guess we'll never know, nor will the mother who lost her precious child. I've thought about them a lot over the years--and questioned whether or not there was any grain of truth in what that early interviewer said to me.

I hope not, and I don't think so. But certainly it reminds us of how hard we must work some days, making best use of the tools and support now available in finding the most appropriate solution to our drinking.

RJ

[southernbelle47]

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Back to the top for newbies!

[spacie]

A MUST READ

Hi,

I read Audrey Kishline's book, Moderate Drinking years ago, and while it did nothing to moderate my drinking the thought was appealing. About one year after reading the book I read the article about her horrific accident and was sickened and sad for her and the family involved. It also made me fearful that this could be me one day.

I have read various books over the years another one Seven Weeks to Sobriety the vitamin regimine detailed in the book was overwhelming; this book did nothing for me.

I thank the heavens for finding RJ and MYO along with you all!! I have hope and understand that my problem isn't in my head and everyone feels as I do/did which is helpless. Since reading the book and hanging out reading the boards my selfesteem has been renewed along with faith in myself.

Regarding moderation if we listen carefully to our hearts/minds the truth is there and it's up to each one of us to recognize if we can ever drink moderately. In the meantime we have many tools at our fingertips here with MYO and can take giant steps or babysteps that can lead us in our chosen directions.

Today is seven days abs, I went 72 days between Apr/Jun fell down but backup again and am feeling stronger this time around. Still haven't tried the Topa.

Bless you all!!

Spacie

[southernbelle47]

A MUST READ

Still think this one should be read.
Nancy:l