Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Why Do You Drink?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #31
    Why Do You Drink?

    Trying to be high and mighty at this juncture...would be a little soon to point out to people why they had "their reasons/excuses".


    For the record my intention was not to give offence. Merely to raise a few questions that might lead to some useful discussion. I am not feeling anything like high and mighty ? but I would be lying to you and myself if I said I didn?t feel absolutely wonderful about my progress. Why shouldn?t I celebrate success? Why should I shrink to fit in with anyone else?s ideas about my three month abstinence and what it should mean to me? I think it?s marvellous. I?ve done darned well so far and I look forward to further progress. You?ll be telling me next that over-confidence is a sign of imminent relapse? Ha! Right!

    If I didn?t make myself clear enough last time I?ll try to do better this time.
    The reason I said that the word ?why? tends to throw people back defensively on their heels is that it doesn?t tend to produce options or solutions. It tends to produce justifications is all. To use a very simple analogy-if you ask a child ?why? he hit his sister he might say ??Because she stole my pencil?. Now if you were to ask him ?what? he was trying to achieve by his behaviour ?he might say ?I was trying to get my pencil back? And you?d then be in a position to have a dialogue with him about better ways to get his pencil back without resorting to violence.
    The point I was trying to make is that you tend to get better solutions when you ask more open questions.

    I don?t think it does any harm to ask ourselves what our drinking has been trying to achieve for us. And to keep on asking. Sometimes it is possible to get that the positive intention of the habit without engaging in the habit itself.

    Whilst I try to respect other people?s beliefs it?s good to remember that we don?t all share the same beliefs about the nature of change. It seems to me that beliefs have us. I?m not interested in whether alcoholism as a disease actually exists. It?s an endless black hole. Some are convinced it is and so can back that up with satisfactory evidence ?others don?t and can back that up with satisfactory evidence. But if it is, all I can say is- it?s an odd kind of disease that arrests itself when you stop aggravating it. Whether it?s a disease or not is not even the point ? it?s what believing that it?s a disease does to people because whatever you believe becomes your reality. If you choose to believe that you?re a lost cause, one drink away from the slippery slope, a victim of a genetically determined disease with no cure, you really have to ask yourself what there is to look forward to? If you are going to look at your alcohol problem with that mind set, you?re going to have a hard job believing that there could ever be another, infinitely more resourceful way to look at it or that there could be any joy or ease attached to becoming sober and continuing to live a sober life.
    If you choose to see your problem as a dependency to a drug that can be broken as long as you stay away from it. Well that?s a whole different story, and it seems to me a much more resourceful way to live. Only my beliefs. Please don?t flame me. I am entitled to have beliefs that get good results for me.

    Oh and you don?t need to remind me about the genetics thing. Sadly my brother died of alcohol abuse a couple of years ago and my sister is a heavy drinker in denial. I assume I share the genes but I don?t pay much attention to that. You see, I have a wildly different world view to both my late brother and my sister. I don?t believe it?s what happens to you that counts ? only how you deal with it.
    Have a great day y?all. Thanks for sharing. And I hope we can continue to talk openly and respectfully about our differing views without engaging in further mind reading.
    :thanks:
    Keep on keeping on

    Comment


      #32
      Why Do You Drink?

      Good morning all,

      I agree with most of what you said, Suni. I do fail to see the differences between two of beliefs you mentioned, however. You state you do not care about alcoholism being a disease or not. And you do not see having a disease where you are one drink away from a slippery slope as a situation you would embrace as it would leave one "with nothing to look forward to".

      But you state" that if one admits that he has a dependency and all will be fine as long as he stays away from it" , that is a different story. And one you would embrace. To me they are almost exactly the same instead of being two separate animals.

      Oh, and I still believe Phil is off base as well. We can read what someone writes and if we agree with their positions, it does not make them true. It only means that we personally agree. And it does not make them applicable to all even if true. So please do not apply an authors' OPINION to folks on this forum. Thanks.

      My two cents. But the discussion is great! And if I can be debated into a position of my being off base, I will proudly say congratulations and apologize.

      Com
      Com1

      Comment


        #33
        Why Do You Drink?

        Interesting discussion--I appreciate the different perspectives. Makes me think of my favorite quote:
        "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently." Friedrich Nietszche

        It feels like the quicksand we get ourselves into is when we feel judged by others beliefs. That is a sore spot for many. Though there is great benefit in my mind in the different responses--as they are passionate and open veins of thought for me that hadn't been explored before.

        Suni, I am sorry for the loss of your brother. And it must be difficult and maddening to see your sister spiraling downward, esp after losing your brother to alc. Warm thoughts to you.

        Looking forward to more discussions on this topic--it's a great one!
        Openheart
        "Tell me, what do you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" Mary Oliver

        Comment


          #34
          Why Do You Drink?

          Hi Com,
          Never apologise for putting your 3 cents worth in. I'm no expert. Just ain interested party.

          But you state" that if one admits that he has a dependency and all will be fine as long as he stays away from it" , that is a different story. And one you would embrace. To me they are almost exactly the same instead of being two separate animals.
          I don?t believe they are Com. There?s a world of difference between believing that you have a dependency and believing you have a disease. I believe that alcoholism is the name we give to the state we find ourselves in after we?ve used for so long that we?ve developed a dependency (meaning that we can?t discontinue use without withdrawals) and dependency is a symptom not a disease- a crutch to get through the day. it's merely a behaviour that I've learned and that I can unlearn. If I decide that I have a dependency I can completely break free of it by deciding to stay away from it for evermore and never questioning that decision. I am free to return to alcohol any time I like. It?s just that I?ve learned my lesson and I know what will happen when I do and you know what they say ? elegance is refusal! It?s like ditching the boyfriend that was no good for you. Ta Ta Old Bean and good riddance. I don?t want you in my life any more. You were no good for me. (note the past tense)

          If I decide that it?s a disease it continues to haunt me in the present. I?m giving it a power it doesn?t deserve-waiting for the moment when it will catch me out. I?m not living fully but living in fear of my genetic heritage proving my inherent weakness, or waiting for the day when my will power will let me down. Alcoholism is forever! I mean 12 step programmes actually build ?relapse? into their philosophy as part of the ?disease? model of recovery. Actually I think that?s outrageous because it can give people permission to relapse, actually believing that they?re on the road to recovery. Sobriety is part of recovery, not relapse! The relapse rates may be compelling, but just because some programmes have high rates of failure doesn?t mean that relapse has to be the norm. It might just mean that the programmes suck. I believe if you don?t give people a chance to raise their awareness and really examine the underlying causes of their dependency relapse will continue to be inevitable for most.
          Just my 2 cents worth :thanks:
          Keep on keeping on

          Comment


            #35
            Why Do You Drink?

            How about this, Suni. I see them as the same because: Whatever view we choose to have of why we drink/drank, it comes down to the same thing. One drink is one too many.

            I understand where you are coming from but I am looking not at the reason but at the reality. The two have the same reality of one is too many. I believe that alcoholism is partly a result of heredity. You do not. I don't care what does or does not cause it, the cure is the same. DO NOT DRINK! I don't see how my beliefs give any more or less of a crutch for me than your belief that it is a dependency gives you more or less of a crutch.

            I see it all as simply what we believe and I don't see how one belief or another will in any way have a bearing on whether one stops or not.

            No apologies, just opines.

            com1
            Com1

            Comment


              #36
              Why Do You Drink?

              the cure is the same. DO NOT DRINK!
              Of course that's right. The only thing that ultimately matters is that you don't put the glass to your lips.

              I see it all as simply what we believe and I don't see how one belief or another will in any way have a bearing on whether one stops or not.
              Not so sure about that Com. It may not have a bearing or whether one stops or not but I think it might have a bearing on how one comes to terms with being stopped.

              That's all from me from now. Time to cook a duck
              Keep on keeping on

              Comment


                #37
                Why Do You Drink?

                Suni;788428 wrote: There?s a world of difference between believing that you have a dependency and believing you have a disease.
                I agree with this. It's an attitude of mind. A disease is something that is done "to" you, which you feel you have very little control over, if any. A dependency on a drug is something we have done to ourselves, and therefore have total control over.
                sigpic
                AF since December 22nd 2008
                Real change is difficult, and slow, and messy - Oliver Burkeman

                Comment


                  #38
                  Why Do You Drink?

                  Tomatoes, Tomawtoes....I suppose we should all just agree that we may just diagree!

                  But the end result is still the same...SOBRIETY! On that, I believe we can all agree?

                  R2C
                  Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall. --Confucius
                  :h

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Why Do You Drink?

                    Amen.
                    Com1

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Why Do You Drink?

                      I know why I started drinking but what I dont know is why the hell I kept drinking. I started to numb the pain of losing someone I loved, but I kept drinking to the point of near distruction. Why I did that...I have no clue, but I sure as hell am glad I am not doing that any longer.
                      Forever loved, forever missed Papa Bear

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Why Do You Drink?

                        Suni

                        I apologize and I knew as I hit reply...it would be taken wrong. What I meant was.....I have been to the 3 month mark before....and really wondered why people stayed in the slavery of AL. I too would ask people questions....and so wanted to share my new found freedom and realization.

                        When one is ready...the teacher will arise and hopefully you reached a few people here.

                        I am starting to go back to AA...and very much agree with what you say about the disease concept. But, it was a Grey's episode that made me realize the "disease" theory...its not so much physical...but the mental. Its what we tell ourselves...which I think was your point.

                        Thanks for a great discussion!

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Why Do You Drink?

                          Yoga...no one is right or wrong here. Fact is IF I knew WHY I dont think I would have let it happen...I hate to think I CHOSE to be this way. I think I can change, but not without being aware. I dont know of any programme that is full proof. For me...it has taken several programmes, a good support group, my family, friends that care....I have a lot to thank for helping me. I dont consider myself CURED, but I aint drunk today!
                          Forever loved, forever missed Papa Bear

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Why Do You Drink?

                            Hi all,
                            Yep, of course no-one is right or wrong and hopefully no-one is taking any offence!
                            I've participated in many a debate on website forums and learned a lot too by really trying to get to grips with the way people perceive things. Yoga heart, my new found freedom is not really new found! and little to do with me being AF for 3 months! I have been working with people to make changes for a very long time and I understand that the way we perceive out problems is all! It's not the problem that's the problem. It's the way you look at the problem!
                            Anyway. I'm all for open and honest discussion. I try to keep my ego out of my arguments as much as I can. I try only to respond to the words I see, without attaching any emotion to them-so I won't be 'taking' any offence at anything anyone says. I enjoy debating and I really hope we can keep this thread going as long as its natural life lasts.
                            X Suni
                            Keep on keeping on

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Why Do You Drink?

                              I think a big part of the challenge in trying to answer the "why" type questions is that when it comes to ___________________ (alcoholism, alcohol dependency, problem drinking, whatever term you like) LOGIC doesn't always apply, no matter how hard we try to approach this problem in a logical way.

                              When I consider the many negative consequences I suffered because of my drinking over the years, it is completely baffling that I continued to drink. It was just as nutty as if I repeatedly put my bare hand on a hot stove.

                              When I consider the thousands upon thousands of times I said "I won't drink today..." or "I'll just have one..." when it NEVER came to pass that way for me....NEVER, yet I continued to believe that "having just one" was somehow possible.

                              I believe stuff like that ,which defies logic, is part of the reason that discussions like this can become challenging. There IS no logical reason I can think of, other than the fact that I'm addicted to alcohol, that I did any of the illogical and stupid stuff that I did.

                              DG
                              Sobriety Date = 5/22/08
                              Nicotine Free Date = 2/27/07


                              One day at a time.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Why Do You Drink?

                                When I consider the many negative consequences I suffered because of my drinking over the years, it is completely baffling that I continued to drink. It was just as nutty as if I repeatedly put my bare hand on a hot stove.

                                When I consider the thousands upon thousands of times I said "I won't drink today..." or "I'll just have one..." when it NEVER came to pass that way for me....NEVER, yet I continued to believe that "having just one" was somehow possible.
                                Hi Doggygirl,

                                It's true, logic doesn't seem to apply to addictions. I was once addicted to a guy (thought we were in love but I was in addiciton-he was who knows where) Looking back I cannot believe how deluded I was. Like it just could not have been me. I did things that make me cringe now but I did them all willingly and believing everything was meant to be!
                                Ha!! So I can identify with the stove very well.
                                And yet it was a logical decision that made me stop drinking-though I was addicted.
                                My logic was "I am not going down this road that leads to destruction" and I walked through the threshold of the door vowing never to return.
                                Keep on keeping on

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X