thoughts about the Rational Recovery approach

[Jane Thompson]

Dear All, I'm a newbie this year and have been finding much solace and support on the newbies nest forum. I just posted the following there, but thought I'd share my thoughts wider as I'd be interested in hearing about people's experiences with RR:

"Hi everyone ? 11days AF so far and am feeling good, but a bit strange. I haven?t posted for a while, but I?ve been reading your posts ? seems a bit like eavesdropping, but I haven?t really had anything to add. However, I have been thinking and reading lots ? the posts on this website (?my story? and the tool box are amazing) and have started reading Rational Recovery, so I thought I?d share with you where I?m at. 11 days AF is not new to me ? I?ve gone AF for 2-3 months in the past, and several months at a time when pregnant, but I?ve always gone back to drinking ? never moderately and with each drinking episode I?ve seemed to become more ?abnormal? ? secretly buying and drinking, justifying over-indulgence etc. So, although I?m happy to be AF now, there is a doubt in the back of mind that it really is ?forever? ? what makes this time different? Is it just a matter of time before I decide (as in the past) ?If I can quit for this long, I can?t have a problem, so just have one to be sociable/reward yourself/cheer up...? Giving up ODAT seems to be the way most people approach it, but from here it makes the rest of my life seem interminable!! (Like the joke about not smoking ? you don?t actually live longer if you don?t smoke, it just seems like it!!!) So I bought Rational Recovery, and am halfway through reading it. If you haven?t, it?s definitely worth a look ? it?s very confronting, and doesn?t allow us any excuses ? genetics, stress, life issues, abuse etc. are all irrelevant ? basically we all love the pleasure of getting smashed and our mid-brain (our ?beast brain?) is addicted to that feeling and will do anything to get us to keep repeating that experience. The way out is to accept that there are 2 competing ?I?s? ? the real I, the intelligent, smart forebrain, and the primitive mid-brain. We need to change our thinking from ?I want/need/deserve a drink? to ?It wants/needs a drink? then we can see its addictive voice for what it is. The author is clearly against most ?conventional? forms of addiction treatment, and maintains that the idea of ODAT sets us up for failure ? our beast makes us feel uncomfortable when we think about a life without alcohol, but once we see the beast for what it is, we realise we have the power not to drink. As I said, it is confronting, but in many ways makes a lot of sense ? I?ve never liked the idea of AA in terms of being made to feel that I have a disease (I don?t believe I do), or that it?s important to spend lots of time with other problem drinkers ? surely its better to spend time with people who don?t have a drink problem ? make new friends who don?t have the same baggage as you? It does seem as though AA in the US is a powerful political organisation, and maybe the RR programme is responding to this ? AA doesn?t have the same profile in the UK or Australia as far as I can see. Is anyone else familiar with RR ? I?d love to find out what anyone else makes of it. Nice to be back posting, look forward to your thoughts? JT"

[Sky]

thoughts about the Rational Recovery approach

Good to see you post this here JT. I'm definately going to read the book.

[JimBeam911]

thoughts about the Rational Recovery approach

I think the RR approach can be very helpful to those turned off by AA, especially for those drinkers who do not view their addiction as a 'disease'. RR describes a simplified, albeit useful structural model of addiction that can aid a drinker into becoming more aware of the self-delusion that results in excessive alcohol consumption DESPITE a concurrent strong resolve to quit drinking for good. It is not for the faint of heart, as external circumstances (including misfortunes of the highest magnitude) are excluded from the class of legitimate explanations as to why we drink. In fact, this class includes merely a single member; we drink because we love how it feels. Or 'DEEP PLEASURE', as the author puts it.

[Guitarista]

thoughts about the Rational Recovery approach

Hi Jane.
What you say above is true, in my experience. For me, i needed to be ruthless in my approach. I read, listened to lot's of approaches, and used whatever made sense to me. AA is not the best way for me, at present, which doesn't mean it isn't excellent for other folk, as it is. I've gone about stopping drinking quietly in my own little way, after much trial and error. (And RR makes a lot of sense to me, as do some aspects of AA) Our personal, most effective way out, becomes irrefutably crystal clear eventually, whether that be RR,AA, MWO, Meditation, Rehab, a combination of these and more, or whatever, after we've trialled and errored a few approaches. We've just got make sure we pull up before we kill ourselves, or do serious damage, to us, and/or those around us.

Best wishes on your journey Jane. Sounds like you are on the right track.

[Marshy]

thoughts about the Rational Recovery approach

Hi Jane,

Anything that helps with the mental battle is a good thing in my eyes. After the very early problem of overcoming physical dependence (which only lasts for a week or two) it's our mindset that's crucial for the long-term fight.

I'm not an apologist for AA but I do go to meetings. I do think it's a very different organisation here in Britain from in the States (based on what I read here), and it's probably different again in Australia - after all we have very different cultures.

Here, it's much less rigid than it seems in the States. I'm not told I have a disease, I'm not told I have to believe in anything I don't believe in, I'm not told to do anything at all in fact. It's more like group therapy - with pizza afterwards :H As for hanging out with problem drinkers, I like the fact that alcohol isn't even a consideration when we go out. No anxiety about "what do I say if someone offers me a drink?" or being tempted because all the people you're with are drinking. It's very relaxing!

Ah, I've just googled Rational Recovery and see it's billed as the "arch-enemy of AA". :H Oh well, whatever works for you!

[Hippy Chick]

thoughts about the Rational Recovery approach

I feel as long as it works for the individual then go for it. To each his own...I cant wait to get the book as it sounds so much like what I do believe. Thanks for bring it to my attention.

"After the very early problem of overcoming physical dependence (which only lasts for a week or two) it's our mindset that's crucial for the long-term fight. '"
Marshy I loved what you said as I have often wondered if there is two different types of craving - physical and mental. Surely a mental craving is a habit and habits can be broken??

As long as we all have the same long term goal I think we are on the right track.

HC

[dancelot]

thoughts about the Rational Recovery approach

Marshy;802993 wrote: Here, it's much less rigid than it seems in the States. I'm not told I have a disease, I'm not told I have to believe in anything I don't believe in, I'm not told to do anything at all in fact. It's more like group therapy - with pizza afterwards :H As for hanging out with problem drinkers, I like the fact that alcohol isn't even a consideration when we go out. No anxiety about "what do I say if someone offers me a drink?" or being tempted because all the people you're with are drinking. It's very relaxing!

Sounds exactly like my AA group - and I am in the US. I've never been told what to believe, and find it useful group therapy that isn't costing me $200 per hour. Last I heard the only requirement is a desire to stop drinking.

Also keep in mind, the literature was written in the 1930s, and the terminology is sometimes archaic. Kind of like the the difference between the King James bible and the New International Version bible. The first one is impossible to make sense of (no wonder I avoided religion) because of the language. The NIV at least gives me a clue.

Terms such as "character defects" are usually a source of amusement -I look at the meaning behind it. There are words people from my parents and grandparents generation that are not acceptable to use anymore. If I am talking to an elderly person, I'm not going to assume there is necessarily a derogatory meaning - sometimes it really was just how people talked. Interestingly, I laugh longer and harder at AA meetings than anywhere else."Disease" is the same thing. Whether I call it addiction, disease, disorder, brain chemistry, whatever, the important thing is, just deal with it.

Thanks JT for the information. Any and all is always appreciated, whether it's meds, AA, or whatever. I for one am serious about staying sober, and always keep an open mind to anything - if one's not working, I'll try another, or add to what I do currently, and never stop learning. Most important is just do something - and be 100% committed.

I like the idea of no excuses, etc. And I truly loved getting drunk - I did drink more when severely stressed out, but unlike many people, I never felt guilt about it, or so never felt the for need excuses. There's a guy at AA I call my twin brother - he's exactly like me in this respect. I guess at least we're honest!

Take care and best wishes for your sobriety.

[Meech]

thoughts about the Rational Recovery approach

Great information everyone!

The more resources and sharing from everyone helps with the learning and hopefully succeeding in this fight for AF.

I totally agree about the no excuses (although certain situations in life prop up and certainly make me want to drink or binge drink). Today I have a choice, we always have a choice no matter what life throws at us. And right now the choice is AF.

I find sharing my struggles and hearing the struggles of other people with this addiction a BIG part of my recovery. In the past I had no one to share my problems, cravings, accomplishments and now on MWO, I can and let me tell you it has kept me from going in the dreaded garage where the beer is!

Keep all the good information coming. here's to a great AF week.

I'm AF8 now. Yesterday I just felt exhausted from fighting the "Mid-Brain Beast". I just wanted to throw my hands up and say "Okay tonight you win, I'm sick of fighting you".
But somehow I blocked it out, stayed busy, ate etc.... my routine. And I am ready for AF9!

I may look for the book to read! :thanks:

[Guitarista]

thoughts about the Rational Recovery approach

Hippy chick,
Rest assured, mental habit's can be broken, and we can throw out old routines. With time, and a change in our thinking, and just not drinking, will eventually become the bigger habit. The brain will slowly re-wire itself to a new routine, but if we feed it with al every now and then, the habit won't be broken, although some may be able to cut right back, which is not an option for many of us. There is literature on brain/al chemistry around that's very interesting reading. 'Bossman' has thankfully taken the time to source and post a bit of this stuff.

Best wishes all, af life just get's better and better each day. Ahhh.....Freedom!