Who`s to blame?

[BUNNY]

Who`s to blame?

I apologize if I offended anyone. If my message came off as ``hard-edged`` or ``incompassionnate`` that was not at all what I intended. Yes, Funny girl, I did mislabel my thread, but I actually did not mind the way it was evolving, it is quite interesting actually. And no I obviously do not have all the answers, if I did, I certainly wouldn`t find myself in this position would I ? Again, if i insulted anyone here, I am truly sorry, that was not my intent.

[Shikakai]

Who`s to blame?

Honestly, Mario, if you had known the dangers of alcohol opposed to the alleged "pleasure" it brings, would you have ever started?

[Shikakai]

Who`s to blame?

BUNNY;817939 wrote: I apologize if I offended anyone. If my message came off as ``hard-edged`` or ``incompassionnate`` that was not at all what I intended. Yes, Funny girl, I did mislabel my thread, but I actually did not mind the way it was evolving, it is quite interesting actually. And no I obviously do not have all the answers, if I did, I certainly wouldn`t find myself in this position would I ? Again, if i insulted anyone here, I am truly sorry, that was not my intent.

No one is offended. Just a discussion, Bun :l

[BUNNY]

Who`s to blame?

Thank you Shikakai

[rubywillow]

Who`s to blame?

Bunny, I didn't see any insults in there, just a heartfelt post. That's why we're all here. It's been hard too for me to get over self-blame, but even more the regrets for the time I've sentenced myself to hell. One thing I've learned is to love myself, now, today, and work on tomorrow with the life I CHOOSE to live, and the people I love, who love me whether they understand me or not. There are problems going on now in my extended family that I have chosen NOT to take personally, not to allow space in my mind. If you've done the best you could, why worry about something? If you have not, and you choose not to, why worry about it? Worry, blame, guilt, don't change anything. Action does. I wish every person, every day, in every job or decision they make, would accept accountability for their PERSONAL actions. Can you imagine the changes in the world if this happened?? A politician, accountable?? With that their only 'bottom line'? And if every thing we did, every day, we held our OWN accountability sacrosant? There would be peace, a flood of compassion for our fellow man, and those who that compassion touched would hold themselves accountable to make the most of that compassion. I try not to judge, it's not my place, and I've been accused of being too giving. But, IMHO, too many have become too reliant on ANYONE but themselves. Watch the TV shows where people are 'given' great new lives, homes, etc. I'd love to see the same progams go back in one year, and do an honest evaluation of what this has actually done to change the recipient(s). I still teach my family the old ways of living simple, self-sufficient lives. Two things I believe, and apply to myself, are: 'Give a man a fish and he will feed his family for one day; Teach a man to fish and he will feed his family for a lifetime'; and 'Use it up, wear it out. Make it do, or do without'. We are a nation, and world, of self-entitled people, who prefer NOT to accept accountability for our behaviors. Why else would there be so many disenfranchised children out there, without the stability of two adults who made the decision to be together and create them, then give them the life they need. We have babies who are accidents, status symbols, cries for love, every selfish reason. And THESE are the children who will populate the world, run the world, maybe be in charge of taking care of us when we now longer can. I'm sorry to digress, but the concept of accountability has long been the banner I wave. People are SO self-involved, they can't SEE this is all their own making. I choose love, and warmth, and genuine caring, and being accountable for ME every day I have. It's wonderful to have these discussions - it shows we care and are thinking about where we are going from here, my friends.

[mario]

Who`s to blame?

Honestly, Mario, if you had known the dangers of alcohol opposed to the alleged "pleasure" it brings, would you have ever started? ,shikakai



Of course not shikakai,but then again there are lots of things i have done by myself in my own life which i would not even try or do again.But I have to accept personal responsibility if i do the opposite like blame others for my problems, life situation, hardships, character flaws, and just about everything and anything else. Rather than accepting the "blame" or responsibility for how my life is/was, i would be making excuses. Everything and anybody is to blame -- except myself.

[Sheepish]

Who`s to blame?

Personal responsibility is highly under-rated.
Wonderful post Ruby. (and you too Mario)
-Sheep

Edit to add: wonderful post to Kate below....!

[KateH1]

Who`s to blame?

No Worries at all Bunny, this is a great topic, and hopefully one that provokes "Thinking".

Here! Here! Ruby, I completely agree with every word you have written! Self entitlements and personal responsibility is a Huge Issue. Unfortunately for many, this cycle begins early in life and continues throughout their lives. It is always their parents, the system , the schools, the media and on, and on that have failed them. I am always curious what these complainers do in the realm of volunteering, and donating to help othere???

Shikakai, I will answer the question that you have asked twice here now. "Had we known the perils of alcohol, would we still have taken that first drink?" I have to answer yes to that question. My mother was an alcoholic, I grew up with it. In college I saw friends drinking to excess, the danger of alcohol was and still is everywhere. Did I plan on becoming addicted, NO, did I plan on it stealing years of my life NO. But, still, I take personal responsibility for my allowing myself to go as far as I did, before stopping the madness!

Shikakai, when you were here before, this was you constant mantra. The government is failing you by not giving you health insurance, a home, a check and food. You recieved a lot of good feedback then, but I see, nearly two years later, you are still looking to be justified here.

In order to recieve Social Security, you have to meet base requirements and you have had to work to pay into your own fund. Checks are based on ones lifetime income. Medicare and food stamps are given to some of the elderly......why not? Many of them contributed in many positive ways. Many, elderly are no longer of an age, where they are employable. I have no issue with this at all. I also have no issue with lending a helping hand to "LEGAL Immagrants", many of our forefathers, were also immagrants. Like Ruby said, this is giving someone a "Fishing Pole". I do take issue with the multitudes that take advantage of the welfare system......that is another story!

Yes, it would be a good thing if Rehab were covered by insurance. But, rehab is not a CURE...it is a helping hand. But, we still have to do the work!

So, I do not blame anyone or anything for my falling into addiction. I do however take responsibility for my recovery. After all, for how long, and for how far back, can we continue to Blame others for our own shortfalls and.....at the end of the day, what does this accomplish????

[Funny Girl]

Who`s to blame?

The health insurance issue here in the states becomes a big one though. If you have a serious condition in the US and you don't have insurance provided through an employer (i.e., if you lose your job & your benefits & have to buy insurance) you cannot GET health insurance - so, if you have diabetes, cancer, or a history of alcoholism - you cannot take care of getting treated. So, even if you TAKE RESPOSIBILITY and are willing to accept that everything is yours to fix - if you need any sort of medical assistance or in-house re-hab for example - unless you have the money out of pocket to pay for it, you won't be able to get that help. For those of you in other countries where care is available that is a big issue. I just don't want that to be overlooked here as an 'excuse'. If some sound frustrated, that may be why . . . .they've encountered our wonderful system.

[KateH1]

Who`s to blame?

You will get no argument from me on the issue of Health Insurance in the US, FB! It truly sucks. After surving cancer in 2000, and even with very good health insurance, I owed over $200K for medical bills and living expenses! Then, my insurance canceled me, and offered me a high risk rider and I bill of over $900.00 per month! I had no choice, but to close my business and go back to the corporate world!

But, I still think that to blame the system for preventing us from overcoming addiction, or for not paying our way through life, is another issue. Besides AA, many communities have rehab programs that or free or have a sliding scale. It may not be exactly what we want....but it can be done!

[Funny Girl]

Who`s to blame?

No, Kate, I certainly don't entirely blame the system for people not trying at all. But I do think it makes it incredibly hard for people in crisis to take the first step. Everyone isn't as strong as some are and require that things be a bit easier or they just can't even begin - but, maybe I'm more of a sap since I sell insurance & see so much on a daily basis of people just beaten down by the constant fight.

And I'm not just talking addiction. But I tend to group addiction with other forms of illness like cancer, diabetes & the like. We just don't punish people with physical diseases for being weak for not being able to get treatment the way we do addicts. There's a double standard. It's also harder for someone with an addiction to get a corporate job if they have to do it to get health insurance for that reason - they would have to still hide that aspect of their being when getting the job or risk not being hired at all. Although there's still that risk with cancer, it's less acceptable to discriminate based on that than it is based on addiction. I personally would never see a doctor for anything related to alcohol or mental health due to the fact that as a self employed person, I could kiss my ability to get individual insurance goodbye at my age, or have my rates driven so high I would no longer be able to afford it at all. So, here I am in the underground. If I need medication - I go online - period. That way it's not in a medical record or in a pharmacy anywhere in the domestic US.

[Funny Girl]

Who`s to blame?

Oh, and congrats on being a survivor! I forgot the most important part!

[BUNNY]

Who`s to blame?

I can understand your frustration about the health care sytem in the states, but i`m sorry to tell you that it isn`t a bed of roses here either. If I look at the statistics (in my province anyway) most people do not have a family doctor, oh sure, you can get one if you`re willing to pay, a lot GPs are now going for private practices. Ka ching!! God forbid you should be diagnosed with a cancer, the waiting lists for treatment are terrifying, some people even choose to go to the states and pay for treatment privately. My own doctor (which i pay for) referred me for a colonoscopy, but to be eligible for this test I must first see a specialist who in turn will refer me for the procedure. I faxed in my referral over a year ago and still do not have appointment, and when I do, it might take another year or so once i`m actually on the waiting list. So my option if I don`t want to wait that long? go privately and pay, Ka ching again... I`d have time to be dead by then.....

[Tulipe]

Who`s to blame?

Hi Funny Girl,
I was just posting about this in the meds section. Here is my take.
One. society feels scared by an addiction because, unlike cancer, it endangers other people. Drunk drivers kills people. Drunk parents endanger children, or at very least hamper their development and sense of well-being. If you are by yourself and house drunk, you are not feeding your mind and body, thus not contributing to your personal devleopment and to society, although you are not a danger to others.
But the 'danger to others' aspect makes the normal person wary of the addict or abuser. This is why people quitting smoking get lots of support, while people quitting drinking get none.
On seeing a doctor - no in the US one would never do this unless totally at the bottom or so rich it didn't matter. That means the majority of people with addictions are on a path of destruction, for themselves and the family, which hurts society. This is because they have no where to turn for help.

This kind of labeling is dangerous and unfair. BUT society thinks otherwise. Just look at how sex offenders repeat and repeat, sometimes at tragic ends.
I believe that people can overcome addiction, but that the battle is continuous.

[Tulipe]

Who`s to blame?

Bunny, I thought Canada had the best system in the world? What happened?