~Divorce~

[Gearhead]

~Divorce~

***Warning****- a man's point of view, one who was dumped at that... so take it all with a grain of salt
I find it very unfortunate that families are sacraficed at the expense of one persons pursuit of happiness, when issues could be talked about and worked through but I digress.

Got divorced recently after 13 years of marriage, 17 years together, a 12 year old, a ten year old, both of our college degrees. She was the one whom wanted out, after a couple of affairs she was clearly looking for greener grass, even though I was prepared to do any and everything to save the marriage.

1) I would not have gone on the drunken rampage I did to "celebrate". This did me alot of financial damage and almost cost me my custody. Anyone on this forum is best to steer clear of AL during any such life changing event... not just during but in the time after. I was focused and sober up until the deal was sealed then I basically fell apart.

2) we are fairly amicable EXCEPT discussions on money. we both agree on parenting and doing whatever is best for the kids for the most part. I dont agree that "she is a better parent" as she recently told a judge when she attempted to reshuffle custody (ok I am starting to rant/vent). I find my ex doing alot of things out of spite (example, changing agreed upon vacation dates last minute for no real reason, see 4b below)

3) wayyy better off.. I think alimony sucks, but on the flip side of that she probably spent more at Nordstroms every month when we were together.. and alimony has an end date
Why the hell would I want to spend my life with someone who is still looking for Mr. Right? I see that now even though I did not when it was happening.

4)a) advice... avoid lawyers if at all possible and if financial discussions can be reasonable between parties... they will only burn up both of your money
b)if you have children SPELL OUT all details of visitation and custody, or it will be a nuisance for as long as the kids are under 18
c)if you have real estate be REALISTIC on what it's worth. its value is not sentimental; we are in the middle of the friggen great depression, this is one of the biggest arguements we had on the financial side of the deal. If that value happens to be negative be prepared to offset the debt with something else you are entitled to half of.

[hiddengoal]

~Divorce~

Gearhead;819481 wrote: *I find it very unfortunate that families are sacraficed at the expense of one persons pursuit of happiness, when issues could be talked about and worked through but I digress.

This is SO interesting - it does seem that many families have to go through turmoil that might be unnecessary, but I'm not so sure. Is it just a different sort of turmoil and one that is at least not just an 'elephant in the room'?

If one person in the group, or relationship, is truly unhappy, how can the whole thing even work? I think sometimes we find it easy to trivialize a 'pursuit of happiness' as a selfish adventure. I don't know about that, either. If the pursuit is actually successful, then I would imagine 'all' would be the better for it. Families still stay in touch, even after divorce.

The 'uneasiness' comes when one has to venture out on hope alone. The hope of happiness, the hope of understanding, and the hope of a type of reunion after the break because when there are children, there are 'families' forever. They still have weddings, funerals, graduations, and events to work through whether they live all in the same house or not.

I don't know if I am idealistic, or realistic, but the fact remains that these people (familiy) will not just stop relating after a divorce, so why not seek happiness and assume it will impact the whole group in a positive way?

Just asking,

Hiddengoal

[ChickenNumber3]

~Divorce~

Hmmm?
Makes you think alot!

Does one put the self first, or give up the self for the greater good?

Does giving up of the self, mean that the greater good actually benefits, or does it actually die with the one who leaves and recognises the 'ill-health' of the relationship?

Is the 'self' actually just a figment of our imagination,and therefore we are too 'self-absorbed' to see the big picture,which in the end is nothing other than the 'feeling' of little arms wrapped around your neck, telling you how much you mean to their world; or a quick press of the fingers,meaning' I know you...I know you are there....enough said."

Is the vase, filled with new flowers,actually that much better/greener/fresher,than the one you tended previously? Or will it too suffer from the need of fresh water and loving tendering,because it is no longer fresh and new?

I am wondering all of this?
??

[Gearhead]

~Divorce~

If the grass is greener on the other side/ other vase/ whatever, stop pissing on your lawn?? :-)

[heliotrope]

~Divorce~

Chicken’s post, while well-intentioned, is a bit inactionable. Trying to figure out whether you’re being selfish or should take a bullet for the squad is an impossible judgment, particularly when you’re trying to make the decision for yourself (at least when there are no extreme circumstances).

And, yes, will tomorrow’s roses be any better, in the long run, than the ones that are wilted? Before my divorce I used to think “Well, hell…might as well just stick with it…if I change lanes now, I’ll be trading one set of problems for those of another. They might be different, but they’ll be just as bad.” I couldn’t have been more wrong. (Not to mention that divorce isn’t about finding someone new—but the issue is worth considering.)

I finally realized the extent of my own dissatisfaction when, one night, I was sitting on the couch watching a movie with my ex. This was no romantic/chickflick/tearjerker movie – it was fairly horrific: drugs, degradation, death. At one point, the young doomed couple are sitting on a rock in the evening at the beach somewhere on long island (as I recall). It’s just the two of them. They’re both a bit strung out and really don’t have much hope, but they were content and safe just to sit there in the ocean with each other. They were serene and...unified, without touching, without exchanging a word. (They weren’t talking, but they weren’t _not_ talking – which I’m sure a lot of folks will understand.)

As I watched the scene I thought to myself, “My god, I can think of no greater hell than to be sitting on that rock with my wife. Just the two of us, far away from any distractions. Nothing to do. Nothing to say. No idea how to amuse the other. No undercurrent of affection, acceptance, and allowance…just a lot of resentment, boredom, anxiety, and the defeating knowledge that she has no idea who I am – and I didn’t want her to know."

That’s no way to live.

[ChickenNumber3]

~Divorce~

Point taken Gearhead!
yours too heliotrope

[heliotrope]

~Divorce~

Point taken? Gearhead wasn't making a point, not after your first post. He was making a rather crude and pointless joke which, taken at face value, defeated everything he had to say in his own original post. "Don't piss on your own lawn"? Shall we extrapolate? GH was implying that if life doesn't seem to be going your way in comparison to your neighbor -- if someone else seems to have it better -- then it's your own damn fault for degrading your own circumstances. Compare that to his earlier post where he said exactly the opposite.

So, no, there's no "point" to be taken from GH's response to chicken's post. It was a witless "look at me" utterance, and it was an insult to the folks who actually are trying to take this seriously.

[greeneyes]

~Divorce~

heliotrope, you remind me of a former member who had several aliases.

[Cinders]

~Divorce~

Yes, Greenie, my friend,

Heliotrope reminds me of some people in my past:

Pedantic comes to mind.

pe?dan?tic
?adjective
1.ostentatious in one's learning.
2.overly concerned with minute details or formalisms, esp. in teaching.

Instead of living, they are looking at minutiae of other's lives. I understand today they are afraid of looking at their own lives.

These people are in my past for a reason. They are not worth the skin they were born in.

Cindi

[heliotrope]

~Divorce~

cinders --

Why are you popping into this thread to examine the minutiae of my life? This is a thread about divorce, I contributed a story that I thought might be calibrative, then commented that I thought a previous post was digressive and unhelpful. All you've done is come in here, call me names and tell me that I'm not worth the skin that I was born in. You really mean that? You think I shouldn't have been born? That's mighty damn harsh. ...and what's that got to do with divorce?

If you'd like to contribute something helpful to the topic at hand -- and that includes disagreeing with something others have said _on the topic_ -- then do so. Otherwise, kindly keep your small mind shut and your fingers off the keyboard.

[mama bear]

~Divorce~

Uggghhh...
here we go again

[TsHope]

~Divorce~

Hi, I have been in and out of here for about 9 months now. Sober now totally for 3 months( 3 minor slips in the 9 months)I attend another site as well as this one and started there so it is kinda my home away from home. I love this one as well just don't have allot of time.
I am considering a divorce. I have not been happy for about 12years of this 18 year nightmare. My OH and I use to drink to hide from each other and he is very hard to get to know without alcohol. I am not drinking but he is. Everyday every night and the only time he don't is when he is working, I think? I have been very lonely in this time. The whole marriage really. I truly loved him when we married and I had 2 boys under 8 and he had one. We raised them all and they flew the nest about 6 years ago. Mine are married and I have 3 grandchildren. Under the age of 3! His son is a loner and does well as such.
My OH works allot and when he is not he is at sports or off on a trip with his brother. I am alone all the time and when he is here now it is like an intruder in the house to me. We do not talk. We sleep separately and have virtually nothing in common anymore. I care about him but am not in love anymore. It died from malnutrition along time ago. I am a coward or I would just leave. I have tried counseling and talking to him and just about everything I can think of to fix or save this marriage. I am at the end of my rope. I am depressed and take meds since last Tuesday for it as I gave in and decided to stop suffering and join the club.
I know it is over and we are just going through the motions. He pats me and a kiss in the morning and so on but there is nothing there. We have not had sex since last November and before that is was a year! Just nothing. Like the post of sitting on the rock it is horrifying.
So why do I not leave? I am fifty and scared to death to go out alone into this world. I am terrified of starting over, loosing my home I love and having to go it all by myself. I have gotten no encouragement to stop drinking or to become the person I need to be from my OH. I did it alone. He makes fun of me not drinking like somehow he is different as he guzzles down a 12pk of beer a night and more on weekends. Stumbles with a hangover to his car everyday to go to his job that he gets paid well to do but hates. I worked and he told me to quite and take care of these 9 and a half acers of land we have and our home. I did as he said we paid more in taxes because I was working. It put us in a different bracket so I stayed home, watched my grandkids and took care of our home and gardens,pool,pond and everything else here. Built patio's,walk ways and tried to make it beautiful so we could enjoy it together. He just don't really care about all that. He cares about the garage and drinking. That is all. I am a maid, gardener and basically feel like his child not his wife. He treats me like a child and does not have respect for me. I did that to myself because I did not respect myself but I do now. I have changed and grown and am still changing and growing. I am playing tug of war with myself and fighting myself all the time on what I need to do or should do or what is right for me to do? I feel lost and frightened from it all and wish I could just make it right but it won't be right. I am just not in love anymore with him. I told him that and he just ignores me. Like I do not exist or I am not valid at all? I know no one can tell me what I need or what to do I just needed to get this out where I can look at it and then maybe I will figure it out? Just feel so lost and afraid. I am not wanting a drink, I do not even have a urge to and that is surprising to me? I just want to be happy, not anxious and scared all the time. I have made allot of bad choices and I am getting a bit old to keep making bad choices. This will affect the rest of my life and is a huge decision. I am terrified! I loved reading the posts here and thank you all for sharing what you are going through in this awful time. It is as you all said in different ways a time of self discovery and rebirth as well as change so I am trying to see it that way.

Thanks again,
T

[Gearhead]

~Divorce~

Was not meant to be a "crude" or "witless" utterance. Simply an observation.. If you do not agree then cool, you have no business bashing me in and insulting me in a public forum; I have made no such attack upon you.

[hiddengoal]

~Divorce~

'Walkaway Wives'

Hey everyone -

I really appreciate ALL the thoughts, shared experiences, and comments on the topic. Everyone has a different take, but its helpful to hear all the angles from others - truly.

There are so many stages, it seems, and so many related topics. Here are a few:

Stages - Considering, Planning, Filing, Afterward
Topics - Kids, Self, Homes & Finances, how to continue....

The "rock story" resonated with me, TsHope, and others - its about the considering stage - do you ever know what's the right thing to do?

Gearhead, I appreciated your male perspective, knowing its your experience and while it can't represent all, it points us closer to the male side of it - the husbands. Thanks for your thoughts.

TsHope, I ran upon an article I think you will be interested in, as well as, others. It describes a phenomena called "The Walkaway Wife Syndrome" - who knew? Anyway, here's the link:
The Walkaway Wife Syndrome — DivorceNet

Hidden

[DeeBee]

~Divorce~

The walkaway wife syndrome -- who knew??!!

Hidden, I have come across two interesting books at the libuary which I am finding helpful -- both relating to boundaries in marriage. Shout if you want the names and I'll post them in the reading section for you:-)