NY Times Article on AA

[Gaia]

Sharing this article:

Op-Ed Columnist - Bill Wilson’s Gospel - NYTimes.com

Wondering about reactions?

[Johnny]

NY Times Article on AA

We truly stand upon the shoulders of giants.

A good friend recently told me that in order to conquer this disease we must be able to surrender to a higher power. I've got my first AA meeting this week so this article was very interesting to me, thank you for sharing it Gaia.

I think that many people could consider themselves fortunate that Bill Wilson was a brave visionary.

[Gaia]

NY Times Article on AA

Actually, this article from Wired:

Secret of AA: After 75 Years, We Don’t Know How It Works | Magazine

has much more detail, but I have to laugh at this quote:

"Any small reminder of their former life—the scent of stale beer, the clink of toasting glasses—is enough to knock them off the wagon."

Really? The scent of stale beer? A whiff of a chocolate cordial? Balsamic vinegar? Oh just seeing the words on the page turns me into a frothing maniac.

I wish the article had looked at other programs instead of reading as a commercial for AA. Not knocking AA - I think many of the ideas are extremely helpful but it is misleading to ignore other approaches which are also generating hope and concrete results for alcoholics and their families.

My thoughts,
T.

[mario]

NY Times Article on AA

Interesting, When i went to AA i found it very helpful and used it with other tools that i found, I still get a lot of positives from my AA Books and would recommend for everybody to give it a go at a least a few times.

[Johnny]

NY Times Article on AA

I think that a large portion of society tend to be weary of things that they cannot explain. I think the tone of the guy who wrote the second article is moderately dismissive but reluctantly accepting. Like I said I think it's important to be able to surrender in order to move forward. I studied Psychology at Uni and being a scientific degree it placed no emphasis on spirituality. I wonder if this is a mistake, is it not accurate to assert that true knowledge comes from the acceptance of that which we do not know or understand (I'm sure I'm paraphrasing someone who put that much more succinctly).

As for cues to use Alchohol, they are sewn into the fabric of our culture. I am constantly bombarded with reminders that I have made a choice to not use AL. It's going to take a lot of life management to win this fight, for me acceptance is the key.

Thanks for the posts, very interesting

[lucky 2.0]

NY Times Article on AA

Gaia,

Love your avatar!

Here is a mountain of additional read on AA:

Orange Papers

[Marshy]

NY Times Article on AA

Gaia,

I think the original Wired article is much better. The NY Times piece is a weak rehash. Nice work if you can get it.

Lucky, you're a hoot! Any mention of AA and you wheel out the Orange Papers.

But the Orange Papers don't really bear much analysis.

For example: A.A. repeats the same lies over and over, using the same propaganda technique as Adolf Hitler with his Big Lie about the evil nature of the Jews.

Come on! Anyone who needs to randomly bring Hitler into an argument about something that has absolutely nothing to do with that is so obviously grasping at straws it's painful to see. It's schoolboy debating tactics.

And the section on homophobia? Some guy who wasn't even involved in setting up AA but knew the people who did was a raving homophobe. And?

I'm sure AA was a product of its times when it was set up 75 years ago. But times, and attitudes, change.

I go to gay/lesbian AA meetings that straight people also go to, I go to non-gay meetings that gay people also go to. I would say it's all one big happy family but I might be accused of being brainwashed. :H :H

I'm not saying AA shouldn't be criticised. But it's 2010. The Orange Papers need to bring their criticisms up to date.

[Doggygirl]

NY Times Article on AA

Glad to see the Wired article made it to the net. I was interested to see if it would be posted when I read the printed article a week or so ago. (I mentioned it on was of the regular threads I post to.) I didn't read the NYT version.

I found the article interesting mainly because I am active in AA, and sometimes I don't get how it works either. I'm just happy it does! We all have to find our own way, but AA is what has helped me achieve contented sobriety. I also found parts of the article interesting that talked about some physical healing in the brain that seems to be connected to the type of "talking" that goes on in AA meetings and that is part of the Steps (Step 5 specifically). Maybe as more is understood about our brains, more of "why it works" will make sense.

I follow the program because it is working for me. Orange Papers or other opinions don't really matter. I am "for" ANY program that works for even a few people, much less millions of people. The "right" way to stay sober is the way that works for you.

My hope here at MWO as always is that ALL sobriety programs and methods will be respected by all, whether they worked for a given individual or not. I have struggled mightily to find a solution that works for me. Far be it from me to say what does / doesn't should / shouldn't work for others.

And this is life and death. Thank God for AA, MWO, Rational Recovery, SMART Recovery Women for Sobriety, Alan Carr's Easy Way to Stop Drinking, Baclofen, Naltrexone, Antabuse, Cold Turkey, Voodoo, and whatever else might work for even one person.

DG

DG

[lucky 2.0]

NY Times Article on AA

For the record, I do agree with Doggy. I just like to stir the pot when it comes to AA!

And as my dad always said, "That is why they make chocolate and vanilla."

Peace

[Guitarista]

NY Times Article on AA

Doggygirl;898276 wrote: Glad to see the Wired article made it to the net. I was interested to see if it would be posted when I read the printed article a week or so ago. (I mentioned it on was of the regular threads I post to.) I didn't read the NYT version.

I found the article interesting mainly because I am active in AA, and sometimes I don't get how it works either. I'm just happy it does! We all have to find our own way, but AA is what has helped me achieve contented sobriety. I also found parts of the article interesting that talked about some physical healing in the brain that seems to be connected to the type of "talking" that goes on in AA meetings and that is part of the Steps (Step 5 specifically). Maybe as more is understood about our brains, more of "why it works" will make sense.

I follow the program because it is working for me. Orange Papers or other opinions don't really matter. I am "for" ANY program that works for even a few people, much less millions of people. The "right" way to stay sober is the way that works for you.

My hope here at MWO as always is that ALL sobriety programs and methods will be respected by all, whether they worked for a given individual or not. I have struggled mightily to find a solution that works for me. Far be it from me to say what does / doesn't should / shouldn't work for others.

And this is life and death. Thank God for AA, MWO, Rational Recovery, SMART Recovery Women for Sobriety, Alan Carr's Easy Way to Stop Drinking, Baclofen, Naltrexone, Antabuse, Cold Turkey, Voodoo, and whatever else might work for even one person.

DG

DG

:h

[hippie37]

NY Times Article on AA

I'll just cite tradition 11 here. Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio and films.

In other words, I couldn't give a shit what's written in the papers. It works for me. End of!!

Many Blessings
Phil

[Milokirk]

NY Times Article on AA

Orange Papers

Regarding Orange Papers, I would like to point out that Agent Orange is very comfortable distorting facts and figures. He ignores research he doesn't like. He'll read a whole book and quote only the one sentence that supports his views. He invented the AA 5% success rate, by misrepresenting the research of George Vaillant and distorting the figures from an internal AA member survey.

Though millions of people have attended AA, Agent Orange will not admit that AA has helped a single one of them. By his obsessive anti-AA stance, Orange may be turning away desperate people whom AA might be able to help.

[Milokirk]

NY Times Article on AA

You can read an interesting critic of some of Agent Orange's claims at Green Papers

[Milokirk]

NY Times Article on AA

Oh, the URL for Green Papers is: Green Papers

[techie]

NY Times Article on AA

Milokirk;908097 wrote: Regarding Orange Papers, I would like to point out that Agent Orange is very comfortable distorting facts and figures. He ignores research he doesn't like. He'll read a whole book and quote only the one sentence that supports his views. He invented the AA 5% success rate, by misrepresenting the research of George Vaillant and distorting the figures from an internal AA member survey.

Though millions of people have attended AA, Agent Orange will not admit that AA has helped a single one of them. By his obsessive anti-AA stance, Orange may be turning away desperate people whom AA might be able to help.

Hi Milokirk I don't get too excited about this kind of thing. The green/orange papers are nothing but one voice biased weblogs. You can agree with their position or not. If you feel orange is turning away folks by his position that is sad. However, I do not feel too many folks are reading either of their blogs.