Barking Up The Wrong Tree?

[Guest]

I've been here almost two months now and in that time I have read many posts. Some are heart-wrenching.

What has become clear to me is that alcohol is not always the cause of personal disaster. Although it is demonised and blamed often.
Many people here have been, and are, suffering from clinical depression. Sometimes it has been treated and sometimes not.

'If the bridge is shaking it may not be the load (alcohol) but the weak foundations.'

I note that there are members who have taken advantage of psychiatric services and have had therapy to help with their problems.
That is very wise. What does bother me is that there are too many who haven't used these available facilities.
I see it in the 'relapsers,' they give up the alcohol for a time, then backslide and blame it on the demon or their weakness.

I would like to see an 'addicts protocol'...the first step being a thorough psychiatric evaluation.
It is unfortunate that by the time an individual presents for treatment the most noticeable symptom is their drinking.
The label 'alcoholic' is too simple, and too easy a diagnosis. In many cases it is an automatic response from the treating physician. Problem solved! (Not.)

Dudes (and Dudettes...sometimes I can't tell) these are my musings for a slow Sunday morning. But it is important. It is a massive problem for many of us.
And it deserves both barrels. Stop Drinking and see the shrink!

[KateH1]

Barking Up The Wrong Tree?

I do agree that many alcoholics also suffer from some sort of untreated mental or emotional illness, be that depression, PTSD, bipolar and others. I also agree that alcohol used for self medicating does not help, in fact it makes these illnesses worse. But, I also know that alcoholism is in itself a devistating disease. Many times, alcoholism cannot be "cured" by simply seeking psychiatric help or medications. I think it is important to bring this up because some here might be lead to believe that they can safely drink once they have begun therapy or psychiatric treatment and this could be quite dangerous for them.

Yes, everyone is welcome to their own point of view. But a point of view is just that and certainly not a diagnosis, nor a fact.

[Guest]

Barking Up The Wrong Tree?

I would like to make it very clear that I am not advocating the use of alcohol as as a treatment for depression. I am merely observing that it has been used for that purpose, and it is frequently treated separately and solely without attention to any other underlying problems.
As I said "Stop Drinking and see the shrink." Can you say it plainer than that?

[johnnyh]

Barking Up The Wrong Tree?

Good point Blue Heeler,

I agree to your observation that there are a lot of ppl with untreated depression and whether that has resulted out of their alcoholism or was the trigger to their alcoholism, if untreated can easily be the downfall.

In my case, my drinking was very problematic before the depression ever started. I gotten into drinking at very young (teen) age, and it was more rebellion, wrong crowds, 'having fun', etc. that eventually got out of hand. I think the depression with me only came once the realisation, even though probably still very subconscious, that problems were getting out of control.

Now, whether the chicken or the egg came first, really isn't quite relevant and very different probably for different people. I mean some of us have been alcoholics for decades, right?! But I agree with you, in order to make sobriety a success and more importantly even life, living a happy fulfilled life, surely depends on the succesfull treatment of these underlying conditions.

Alcohol will make depression worse, that's for sure. Alcohol will also render most anti depressants useless, Alcohol will prevent you from dealing with your issues and keep on running away.

Both need to be treated, and it's probably wise to do this hand in hand.

You seek treatment for depression, don't quit drinking, you will a) not be succesfull in treating the depression, and b) certainly not quit drinking as a result of the treatment.

you quit drinking but don't seek treatment for your depression, you will a) not be sucesfull in treating the depression, and b) maybe manage to get some AF time under belt, but be at a much higher risk, of relapse, plus even so not quite have the quality of life you should have?!

Then again there might be a lot of people who are Alchoholics and don't suffer from depression or whose depressions are mild enough and a direct result from their drinking and those will likely go away when the drinking stops.

But over years of Alcohol abuse, seeking some form of treatment for once mental health is probably not a bad idea.

My 2 cents

[hippie37]

Barking Up The Wrong Tree?

Morning Blue (well it is here in the UK!)

I've always advocated that alcohol and substance misuse are merely symptoms of the underlying 'traumas' we have suffered. What constitutes 'trauma' to one person can be very different to that of another. It could be as simple as feelings of abandonment from an absent father. This may not necessarily mean that he is not there physically, but emotionally for some. Others may not be effected by this at all but have undergone some kind of abuse, be that sexual, violent or both. There are those that believe that we are actually traumatised from own birth. That's a whole other debate though!! It could be as simple as not feeling loved, feeling ashamed, sexuality. All these things could constitute trauma in an individual and many more like it.

So for me personally, I feel I need to address my trauma and the behaviours surrounding that that lead me into using substances in the first place. I'm not ashamed to say that my own trauma was through inappropriate sexual behaviour within my family. It caused me an horrendous amount of shame, guilt, anger, confusion and everything else to boot!!! I've beaten myself up for years over it. I was just an innocent child though.

So I agree with you wholeheartedly and the point I think you're trying to make is that alcohol is the tip of the iceberg. Underneath that is a mountain of ice to chip away at. How people choose to go about that is their own personal journey. Some feel that do not need to re-visit this stuff to stay sober. I feel my past is my greatest asset to my future happiness. That's just my opinion though and it most definitely works for me.

Many Blessings
Phil

[Guest]

Barking Up The Wrong Tree?

You have it Phil. The tip of the iceberg is a great metaphor.
I knew a girl when I was very young. She was a tall and beautiful Irish Catholic. She was abused at home and later became a Nun. What a waste, I thought. She was lovliness itself. I used dub her to school on my bike. As close as we ever got, I'm sorry to say.
But from that day to this I burn about her treatment by people she should have been able to trust.
If you can't trust your family you are in very dire straits. Luckily it was not so for me, and also luckily I had a mentor in my youth who helped me understand the world. He was an old Jewish doctor (MD from Vienna & Edinburgh - he was no fool.) He pointed out to me very early that a man cannot swallow the world. He also told me to drop my burdens and move on with life. We don't last forever and a wise man is conscious of his mortality.
All of that is not to say we don't remember...we just don't care as much anymore.
Do the old memories last? Of course they do, but we can re-write the script and make a better story. Luckily I am not blighted by my past. I am by Mary's though and if I could take blood for it, I would.

[Johnny]

Barking Up The Wrong Tree?

Interesting point of view Blue and generally I agree with you. I have been in therapy for three years and my Alcoholism is one of many symptoms of an bad mix of nature/nurture and other extraneous variables. Fixes of any kind help us to avoid the reality that is our 'real' trauma how ever there are many who suffer great psychological difficulties and never act out or use alcohol for comfort. I think that those of us who do, have a genetic predisposition towards the physical chemical addiction to Alcohol.

I think it is a very relevant metaphor that you used about the individuals 'weak foundations' being the problem as opposed to the load (Alcohol) itself. If I may be so bold as to extend that metaphor I would say that in many cases, nature has not provided enough solid ground for the foundations of the bridges of which you speak to carry such a load. Therefore we should be aware of the potential not just of the foundations, but the rock upon which they stand.

I may well fully address most of my issues through further therapy, but booze has caused some damage that only through abstention can now hope to fully repair the 'structural cracks.'.

[Guest]

Barking Up The Wrong Tree?

I agree that alcohol is merely a symptom however it does have to be removed before the underlying causes can be tackled. I also believe that not everyone turns into an addict(AL or otherwise) as a result of traumas and the addiction itself then causes further issues.

I'm only just dealing with life now after using AL for 18 years even though I wasn't a daily drinker.