What the HELL is happening here ???

[janka]

What the HELL is happening here ???

Pro is right tho, something has changed. Not a close-knit community as it was. Some frivolous stuff going on. I thought this place was a blessing and still do. Something is amiss

[K9Lover]

What the HELL is happening here ???

I used to post a lot, but in the last couple of weeks or so I kind of tapered off. I couldn't quite put my finger on why. I still do appreciate this place overall though.

[Doggygirl]

What the HELL is happening here ???

K9, for whatever it's worth....

As a very intense, very serious, tough lovin' AFer, I find that on occassion I need to take a little break. There are times when I mainly just post in a couple of my "mainstay" threads. I recharge my battery during these times. I think it's pretty normal to give energetically to the cause of helping other alcoholics, then need to recharge sometimes. For me, that doesn't say or mean anything negative about the forum or the people posting in it. I think it's just the nature of the beast we are fighting - it's a battle requiring a lot of emotional energy.

Mean time, congrats on your terrific progress!

My 2 cents anyway..

DG

[Pink Angel]

What the HELL is happening here ???

We all have a hard path to walk,
we all have scars and wounds,
we all have sensitive hearts,
we all feel one anothers pain
we all want credit where its due
we all want encouragment
we all want to SUCCEED
we all WANT TO BE LOVED AND NOT JUDGED.
Places like this are a god send and are a sanctuary where we can go warts and all and talk with out judgement or animosity.
Its somewhere some of us call home and have family
So why dont we look after it and all who enter it?
Drinking or not, we can all belong here and we can all help each other.
Even when i have failed to help myself and have gained strength and wisdom from helping others.
Pro from the bottom of my heart, thankyou for your post.
God bless everyone here,
Pink Angel

[ThisWayOut]

What the HELL is happening here ???

Love to you Pink!

[ladyjan]

What the HELL is happening here ???

stirly-girly;917332 wrote: Bob, no one should be scared to post anything here. This is an open forum and everyone has the right to state their opinion about something, share an experience or ask for, or offer advice. In the majority of cases, people are not judged nor are they criticized for what they post. With the odd exception of members upset by another's action. And the right to be angry and say so is a right as well. I have said before and will say it again, in an open forum with people from all walks of life and beliefs, I personally don't think it is reasonable for us to expect unconditional support for our actions all the time. If, at some point, we mess up badly, then I think the right thing is for other members to remind us of the consequences our actions could have had. Call it whatever you want - tough love if you will. Sometimes we need a boot in the rear rather than a pat on the head. And I think most members recognize that fact and are okay with it.
And if someone is having a tough time, as you said, everyone here knows that there are people on this forum constantly, day or night who are willing to step up and help if needed in whatever way we can. There have been times when members have been in chat for hours talking to a person who is feeling suicidal, or posting messages trying to find out if anyone has information on a member who has posted the possibility of suicide. Time and time again, people have come here having a difficult day and members have been here posting, again for hours, helping that person get through a difficult time. There have been members that have come here and posted while drinking and have said nasty, insulting things. But they have been welcomed back the next day with no judgment given. It's all part of the whole picture, part of the continuing struggles.
We are all in this together and at times, there will be conflict. It's like a family with a lot of kids, not everyone gets along with everyone all the time. There will be squabbles and spats. They will blow over and the family will all sit down for a peaceful evening together. We have to not pay attention to things that won't help us in our journey and focus on the things that will, the positive parts, and hold on tight to those.
Some of us are AF, some of us are moderating, some are still struggling to find their own personal motivation to kick the AL beast. And those who are moderating should definitely not be made to feel like a failure, neither should those who are still struggling. Failure is when you give up. That you keep on trying is the important part.

Very well said Stirly.

KateH1;917481 wrote: For those that are discussing the mission statement or the reason for the creation of this message board, I ask. How many have actually read the book My Way Out? I did read this book and it has had a profound affect on my life and my sobriety. This book was published in 2005, it was written By Roberta Jewel with co-author Dr. Linda Garcia. The book is the story of RJ's way of becoming a "moderate drinker" with the use of Topamax, hynosis, supplements and exercise. RJ also makes it very clear what "Moderate Drinking" is by "her definition".....no where does she claim that "moderate drinking" is whatever the drinker "chooses moderation to be". No where in the book does the author claim that ALL People can "Learn" to drink moderately. In fact, many of us that came here with the dream of moderating found that we were not able to moderate....period. I was one of those people. Never the less, the information contained in the book has lead me to "My Way Out". I think if we are to discuss the purpose of My Way Out, then lets truly discuss The Book.

As for "Judgement", I also do not see alot of judgment here. But I do see people trying hard to help people see their situation more clearly through sharing experiences. Yes, some take offence. This is what alcoholics do.....they seek excuses and blaiming others and circumstances to justify drinking. Those still "in their disease", often do not want to hear the truth or see things in another way. Going along with this thinking, to some, may seem "kind", but in fact it is not. These conversations FEED the Disease of alcoholism.

I love Ruby's saying "none of us got here for singing too loudly in the choir". No one is claiming to not have had serious problems in the past due to alcohol. In fact, that is the very reason we are here. AA has a step that says, " The first step is to take personal responsibility for ourselves"....this is not easy. I fought taking this step for years, and when I finally did, it was very painful and difficult, but it truly was the First Step to finding my way out.

As for those here that will fight for "their right" to come her and post and chat while drinking. That this helps them to perhaps drink less and find companionship. I ask, why do these few have the right to their "bar talk" when others here are fighting for their lives and their sobriety? There are many social websites where they can go if they want "Drinking Chat". On the other hand, some of us, perhaps all of us have on occasion, particulary early on, posted and/or chatted while drinking or even drunk......most of the time, this is not a routine. We all accept these lapses and move on.

I feel very sad that MWO has become a place where so little valuable information on recovery is shared. Most long termers have left. I rarely post any more. I will not join in on the poor you....yes your wife is a ------- or your husband is a jerk BS! How does that help anyone? Who truly knows this other person or the truth of the situation enough to "Judge"?

We have a choice, do we want to live as we always have? Or do we want to change? Do we want others to enable us and help to keep us stuck? Or do we truly want to listen to some of the tough choices and face ourselves and find Our Way Out? That Choice is up to each one of us. But, it is not OK to continually attack those that are very serious about beating this horrible addiction.

Kate *Never the less, the information contained in the book has lead me to "My Way Out". I think if we are to discuss the purpose of My Way Out, then lets truly discuss The Book.*

Using your very correct words KateH1..I don't think too many have read it, and should actually read it before citing unwritten passages of the book at others..
It is a very well written book which all would do good by reading once seriously jumping into this forum, that way we all have the same basic level of information to proceed jointly.
I do not say it should be mandatory, before anybody reproaches me for that comment, it is just an opinion of mine..and I imagine quite a few others...

[mario]

What the HELL is happening here ???

QUOTE=mario;557390]:new: helo this my first post,found site by accident,going for abstinence, i am 43 days sober and need lots of help and support,thanks:thanks:
That was my first post here and that why i still come here, I personally have never read the mwo book,as when i came here first reading any books was not on my agenda,also i am/was not very academic in my education,I have got tons of support and help from many a person here and i like to give some of it back,Some people say this community is changing,all things change,But i don't think it has got any worse since i first joined and it still helps lots & lots of people, Its nice for people to have different points of view & opinions that only has to be healthy.

[spuddleduck]

What the HELL is happening here ???

Pro is right tho, something has changed. Not a close-knit community as it was. Some frivolous stuff going on. I thought this place was a blessing and still do. Something is amiss

i may be mis reading this post, but just my thoughts. i personally do find this a close knit community. ive met a couple of people in person which has been great. when i first came here i couldnt understand some of the frivolity, i was feeling desperate and couldnt understand why people were laughing and joking.... i wanted advice. i looked out the threads which were more appropriate to want i wanted. 6 months down the line my thinking has changed somewhat. i enjoy the banter going on on some of the threads and am currently hosting tigger and loving it. ( i just didnt get that at first) i still know that when i need it i can come here and get some serious talk and advice. thats why i love it. its here for what i need at any time.

[hippie37]

What the HELL is happening here ???

Life is fluid and full of changes why should that be any different on a forum. If people can't learn to handle periods of drama and 'chaos' on a forum how can they be expected to then handle it in the real world. Or maybe this is the real world to some people.

Many Blessings
Phil

[techie]

What the HELL is happening here ???

I suggest to you that this is indeed the real world. We are not role playing here. While respect and understanding should be tenets that underpin this community, conflict will arise. We need to remember that we have a choice to be members here. If sadly, this is not what you expected, you should look for other options. There are many. I chose MWO as an alternative to a traditional 12 step program. My choice was to protect my aynonymity. I'm happy here and getting much out of the program.

In my opinion it appears that the discourse in chat sometimes gets misconstrued vis-a-vie forums. To me many (not all) of the controversial posts are generated by traditional chatters. I find that interesting. This in turn generates misunderstanding of context, and frustration as other try and interpret meaning and provide valuable input?

I view bits no less real than atoms. This program is what we make it. Again, this is a choice we all make coming here and working on our issues. While we need to focus on ourselves first and foremost, the collective WE is a powerful too. Remember we have a choice!

[nancy]

What the HELL is happening here ???

what's happening here

Hello all

I check in here now and then, used to be here regularly. I found it interesting that the same old debate is raging. What's happening here lately, people are being judgmental? Boy have I seen this exact same debate so many times.

To what the others wrote, I would just add things that I wrote in the past. My Way Out was for moderation but there is a key component to the plan that people don't adhere to: medication. I don't doubt that even a heavy alcoholic has a possibility with topirimate, naltrexone or baclofen to drink. But the side effects for some of these drugs have been an obstacle and some of the effects seem pretty bad, especially with Topamax. I think that the fact that this board went AF and became an uncomfortable place for those of us who want to moderate is related to the medication issue and the fact that one size does not fit all. The plan in the book does not seem to have worked. Yet Roberta made an enormous contribution to the public by starting this site and being so forward thinking as to realize the value of medication. Topamax is probably not the right one but she was working with what she had at the time.

I think moderation is possible for some problem drinkers but there is a huge spectrum of people in between and one site is not likely to meet the needs of everyone. I know AA likes to view it as this big mass of sameness but I don't think anything could be further from the truth. Every medical problem has degrees of illness and different treatments.

Personally, I am in the non-judgement camp. Everyone knows it's in the nature of the problem to fail over and over again. There's a lot of shame in that. I personally believe AA is a program much better suited to men who actually may have a problem with lack of humility. What about people with damaged self-esteem? Are they to consider their defects over and over again and sustain the blows of so called "tough love."

I think some people respond to tough love and for others it's going to be damaging. so if you really want to help the broad group of people coming here, you have to be open.

Love can be healing or love can be enabling, and there is no way to know how posts affect people. I really can understand judgment and tough love when it comes to a spouse, someone who directly affects your life. To pass judgement on a stranger in a chat room or someone who is struggling outside that immediate circle that directly affects you seems really unwise to me.

I also feel that it's not that wise to spend too much time here. One of the reasons women struggle with alcohol is low self-esteem/depression, and this site is sometimes very depressing. It reinforces the cause of the problem in some ways.

[ThisWayOut]

What the HELL is happening here ???

Wow, Nancy - that was one of the most intelligent, objective and insightful posts about this particular subject.