The ? About Psychedelics

[TracyA]

When I first came here, someone asked a question about using psychedelics in a program of recovery. Maybe someone else posted it at the time, but I just found this place and thought it might be of interest to whoever asked that question:

Eleusis - Alternative Alcoholism & Drug Addiction Treatment Center

Looks interesting - definitely not 12-step stuff.

I'm going to finish this semester but if I'm not doing a WHOLE lot better by January, I'm going to enter some inpatient program somewhere.

[gateway]

The ? About Psychedelics

wow this looks very interesting. thanks tracy A

[C]

The ? About Psychedelics

Dear Tracy,
If I were considering an inpatient program I would definitely go after this one. Looks ground breaking, fascinating, apropos for the intelligent. Actutally woulld lov e to go there. I hope you can get in. I doubt that it can hurt, only enlighten. Let us know if you do it & how it went.
Peace to you

[TracyA]

The ? About Psychedelics

gateway wrote: wow this looks very interesting. thanks tracy A

Yes, it's also caput. I guess the Doc from Russia who ran that treatment center had a limited time to use a drug not FDA approved for what he was using for - I'm guessing. He also had a bad car wreck and is disabled.

I've been reading up on this all day - short-term use of an hallucinogen in addiction recovery - and it's really fascinating. A person could write a novel about the (political) wars waged over it.

Anyway, here's an update: That type of therapy doesn't exist in the US proper and Ibogaine (in plant form has been used for thousands of years in African spiritual quests) seems to have pulled ahead as the therapy of choice among those in the treatment industry who are bucking the system. It is not a pleasant drug, and even the most sparkling accounts I have read describes fearfulness, etc. It's not a "pink elephant" kind of cloud, but it is an hallucinogen. It sounds like the patient (with no prompting from a therapist - the drug does it itself) revisits his/her entire life.

It's like the filter between the concious and the sub-concious is dissovled for a short time (a few hours to a day), but the entire process is much longer. It is exhausting by all accounts, and you go 24 - 48+ hours without sleep due to the drug. There is no euphoria involved, vomiting is not uncommon, and most people are NOT in a hurry to do it again. The kicker - the amazing part - is the after effects. It is said to bring people back to a pre-addictive state. A common analogy is that Ibogaine does for the mind of an addict/alcoholic what rebooting does for a computer.

There is substantial grass-roots movement from addicts in the street helping each other get it, but it is a DANGEROUS, potent drug, and people have died while taking it. All competent advice steers people away from "underground" treatment providers and towards those that are medically competent. There are a few in Mexico and some in Europe. I found one treatment center in Canada but there is no medical supervision there.

Anyway, it has my interest.

I'm glad you found it interesting too.

Tracy

[TracyA]

The ? About Psychedelics

TracyA wrote: Yes, it's also caput.

Correction: Eleusis (which does not use Ibogaine but something else) is not caput. It's relocated but still has FDA approval and is operating out of Clearwater, FL. The medical director emailed me back. The bad news is that they have no openings until:


August 2007!

I'll bet you dollar to donuts that no other treatment facility in the world is booked that far in advance.

Anyway, they also offer the treatment on an outpatient basis in New Port Richie, FL. He tells me he has two openings left in January. I'm thinking that if I ever want to try it, I'd better nab one of them. Still trying to decide.

[Lizzie Mouse]

The ? About Psychedelics

Wow - Ketamine as a therapy....

Ketamine is a horse tranq, although also used for psychadelic effects... I 'have known' people who have had Ketamine on a number of occasions ( many many moons ago ) and although the effects were not as severe as Acid ... the results, were still disturbing. A mild dream-world like state and lots of giggling and no real handle on what was going on. But that was the point - an escape from reality - just to ' get off your head' ...
Also sold masquerading as ecstasy - usually bought from fraudsters in clubs - who knock K out for 20p per tablet and sell for 5-10 quid in clubs ( when you are desperate for that rush ). First off - seems like a good 'E' i.e nausea when coming up - then after 20 mins - nothing- except paranoia and the loss of the grip on reality. - so I was told.

So this guy needs a good slap - promoting this kind of B****cks as a therapy - why not take Chrysalis' theory and put it to use, as in the taking of coke, meth and smack ... then we all will not be drinkers ( as states in this guys results ) No - we will all be smack-eds... Now there's a thought... Jeeze !

What has happened to good old will power and supps and the support of this website.

So steer away from the K-hole - you just might fall in.

Here endeth the lesson. !!!

[Lizzie Mouse]

The ? About Psychedelics

Hi guys
Take a look at the thread on Holistic Healing - Brain waves by Xtexan... just an alternative to ketamine ( more drugs in your body ) therapy.
I've bought one - and it is a really enjoyable tool - without the toxicity.... and in your own home.

[TracyA]

The ? About Psychedelics

Lizzie your response was really quite rude, but more than that it showed staggering ignorance.

Before you slur the man, maybe you ought to at least attempt to read up on him and his treatment.

At any rate, I would appreciate it if you would refrain from offering me any advice on any topic.

:thanks:

Tracy

[C]

The ? About Psychedelics

Tracy,
Very interesting information. Please continue to share your findings.
Chrys

[Mackeral]

The ? About Psychedelics

Hiya Tracy, i dont think Liz was being rude...She sounded like she was trying to help from my point of view...
This is not an attack at you either Tracy...We have spoke in chat and i thought you were polite and funny...(A nice person)
So please dont take this the wrong way, i think there has just been a misunderstanding

[TracyA]

The ? About Psychedelics

Well, Mack, that kind of help is exactly the kind of *help* I would find if I brought up the topic of MWO up at an AA meeting: A knee-jerk, ignorant response coupled with righteous indigation and grave warning of calamities to come, all packaged with complete disregard for my intelligence. I would find it rude and know better than to discuss MWO in AA. This generally is - and needs to be - a safer place than that, IMO. Open-mindedness goes a long way in any program.

You a sweet-spirited man and I appreciate your concern. No worries though - I love peacemakers, don't hold grudges and I don't like to squabble anyway.

Tracy

[Lizzie Mouse]

The ? About Psychedelics

I do apologise Tracy.
By no means was I offering any advice, I was merely commenting on the KNOWN personal KNOWLEDGE of this drug.
I have read the website of this chap, yet it seems to be thouroughly based upon an hallucinagenic drug, that has not been measured, nor the psychotic after effects that may ensue.

Maybe I am being too concerned about the people who subscribe here, but - to illustarte my point... if a bloke opened a 'recovery resort' and stated that you will recieve 1 tablet of MDMA per day ... would you be happy to attend?
No because you would probably wanr more, once the ' come up' woz commin down.
Same with LSD. speed. ecstasy. any other 'feel good' drug. Woah - stay AWAY.

So back to square one...you will have switched from one drug to another....
As I said I am not offering advice. Just a word of caution. I know one guy who hallucinated his way ALL the way to good ole ' mental hospiital' - it was my brother in law's best friend, and they had to go for walks - way away from trees or buildings because 'THEY' would hear. He ended up being released but after unscrewing all of his dad's house' electrical light switches to check for bugs that were listening to him, he was taken back in again... this was over 10 years ago.

So.
You do what youlike - I am just sharing my experiences with mind altering drugs. * no malice - just good intent .

[TracyA]

The ? About Psychedelics

I apologize too, Liz.

Believe it or not, the use of psychedelics in addiction has nothing to do with copping a buzz. There's a plethora of material out there on how and possibly why it seems to work. It's also not a new thing at all - it's an ancient practice.

None of the treatments I've read up on offer a pill a day. It's usually one dose for an entire treatment period - sometimes two for an inpatient stay that lasts three weeks or more. Not partier material at all.

BTW, MDMA has shown promising results in the treatment of PTSD - again using it as a one time shot. I don't think I'd care to attend any treatment that was not medically sound and outcome based. You know, topa is a mind altering drug too.

No malice here either, and I appreciate your good intentions.

Tracy

[TracyA]

The ? About Psychedelics

I know this must seem controversial to some folks. I wanted to clarify this since some people expressed concern in private message. I am not talking about a therapuetic "rave" here or that sort of thing. I've never even used a hallucinogen.

I was writing about alternative treatments that included using a psychedelic as an adjunct of psychotherapy. The Ketamine in Dr. Kolp's work creates, basically, a temporary dissolution of the ego. The dissociative action creates what is known as ?emergence phenomena,? a type of transpersonal experience - sort of a psychological death and rebirth - and I can see the potential value in that.

The two doctors that have been using KEP (Ketamine-Enhanced Psychotherapy) in separate practices and separate tests are Krupitsky and Kolp. With alcoholics, they are reporting sustained sobriety rates 60%+ after one treatment regimen. One outpatient regimen includes a minimum of 10 psychotherapy sessions, with Ketamine involved during only one of those sessions.

After some sad whining on my part about not being able to get into his inpatient program, Dr. Kolp has offered to work with me personally and design an outpatient regimen that can be completed in one week, maybe a little more. I have decided to give it a go and will be traveling to his office in Florida in January. I have to get a physical and various tests (EEG, liver screen, etc.) run before he'll give my application the go ahead.

I'll let ya'll know how it goes. There is no one in Florida that I know, and I suspect I'll be very lonely, so I'll have to make sure to get a room with an internet connection.

I need to ask him if I'm okay on the topa or if I should go off it for the treatment in January.

Wish me luck.

Tracy

[Crossing Over]

The ? About Psychedelics

HMMM, I think I would be a little leery of some of these drugs. A little old fashioned Xanax works for anxiety and you can get rid of the bottle of pills in 3 to 5 days. Be careful of valium, it's just booze in pill form.

Lots of water, exercise, doing something different and not stressful when drinking time arrives, eating early, reading a good book, getting up early and going for a walk. Drop the caffinated coffee and go to decaf for awhile so you don't wind up too far. Eat right, keep the fats low, veggies high and take vitamins and supplements. Kind of old fashioned but it has worked fro me

Bob