Am I wrong in finding this article pretentious??

[not tonight]

This article was in today's ES Magazine. Love to hear thoughts on it, maybe I am too judgemental.

The wrath of grapes - the new alcoholism | Life & Style

[Topsy-Turvy-Tracy]

Am I wrong in finding this article pretentious??

The title is very pretentious, somewhat nonsensical, and shame on her for making a mockery of an astonishingly beautiful novel. There's my pretention on a plate for you.

But I don't know that I would say the article was pretentious. Everybody has limited experience in life, and this was an auto-bio. I think she makes some good points. I didn't find it terribly helpful though given her "recovery plan" (if you can even call it that) is scattered hither and yon. The author, who never did drink much by my standards, seems to be trying to convince herself that's it's working for her, which doesn't make me very confident in her words. Also, she said that, as a writer, "I can't write if I have two sips of alcohol," which makes me think that her skills as a writer are probably limited anyway, given that some of the finest authors in history were drunks or addicts.

[rubywillow]

Am I wrong in finding this article pretentious??

I found it an exercise in denial, and rationalization. Taking on other methods that DO work is WAY over her pay-grade. While we all have our right to our opinion, posting something like this in a major forum is a dangerous thing to do, since many people take anything they read in print as gospel, and vindication.

[not tonight]

Am I wrong in finding this article pretentious??

That's how I felt. The article starts off describing why her family history makes her more susceptible to alcoholism, her own drinking habit, (very similar to my own), which has become excessive and dangerous (to the point that one of her friends escorts her to an AA meeting) then she gets a total of 4 days al free and that's proof enough that she has control over her drinking (via a trip to Lilly allen's hypnotist and a sachet of ph Miracle Green in her handbag). This article is a good example of how a little knowledge can be dangerous.

[neart]

Am I wrong in finding this article pretentious??

I'm with you on this one, Not Tonight - denial is all I heard in that article!

"90 per cent of us drink and only a very small proportion of those wind up paralytic, wife-beating sad drunkards whose only option is hos-pital, then rehab, then Alcoholics Anonymous, which until now was the only recovery model".

By that definition, most people WITH an alcohol problem would according to her, not have a problem - as if you have to beat someone up in order to be alcoholic. As ruby said, it's a dangerous article, and one I would have loved to have read about a year or two ago when I was pickling myself and trying to convince myself that there was nothing wrong with my behaviour.

4 AF nights does not a moderate drinker make!!

[Topsy-Turvy-Tracy]

Am I wrong in finding this article pretentious??

You know, pretension comes in many forms.

I understood the author's words about not being able to relate with the "gutter drunk" scenario that is a big part of AA, certainly a huge part of their book.

I also think that Roberta probably met the same accusations that are being displayed on this thread (that she was dangerous, that she was in denial, etc.) when she published "My Way Out."

I think that the more information the better. I'm not a big fan of limiting people's access to information out of a fear that they are incapable of finding the truth for themselves.

Not sure where the resentment towards this author is coming from, and maybe that would be good fodder for some introspection. In the meantime, maybe it would be good to take it down a notch, unless there really are some experts on this thread who have absolute statistical proof of things that "DO work" over things that do not.

[rubywillow]

Am I wrong in finding this article pretentious??

Top, these are just personal observations. After a LONG history of drinking, and almost as long seaching answers, I've seen many forms of dealing with the problem. As I said, we all have opinions. Some are based on a lot, too much, experience. And if it's disuading anyone from addressing their own situation, it IS dangerous. We are all different, in every category. Hope this is not too resentful, because it's not meant in that vein. Just an observation.

[Topsy-Turvy-Tracy]

Am I wrong in finding this article pretentious??

Ruby, I didn't think you did anything wrong by saying what you knew from your own experience. The author did the same thing. That's all any of us can do I guess, which was kind of my point. I didn't think your response to me was resentful at all!

Love your name, BTW. It brings up visions of both ruby slippers and "Dark Willow." Interesting and powerful combo there.

[rubywillow]

Am I wrong in finding this article pretentious??

All is well, Top. No worries.

[sapphire1]

Am I wrong in finding this article pretentious??

neart;971564 wrote: I'm with you on this one, Not Tonight - denial is all I heard in that article!

"90 per cent of us drink and only a very small proportion of those wind up paralytic, wife-beating sad drunkards whose only option is hos-pital, then rehab, then Alcoholics Anonymous, which until now was the only recovery model".

By that definition, most people WITH an alcohol problem would according to her, not have a problem - as if you have to beat someone up in order to be alcoholic. As ruby said, it's a dangerous article, and one I would have loved to have read about a year or two ago when I was pickling myself and trying to convince myself that there was nothing wrong with my behaviour.

4 AF nights does not a moderate drinker make!!

I agree with you Neart, I would have loved to have read this article some time back when I was a 'Gutter Drunk' because I was looking for any sort of validation that I could become a respectable drinker and not have to take the reality of total abstinance. The reality is that the incidence of binge, heavy drinking is rapidly rising especially with our teenagers. I have four sons and I see a very fast generational shift in the last ten years from occasional social drinking, to drinking massive amounts of alcohol very quickly. The idea that drinking two glasses of wine daily as being much healthier than not drinking at all, has been perpetuated by makers of the stuff and in fact has no scientific foundation at all...it is the ingredients in the grape that has the health benefit, not the alcohol content, so therefore it is much wiser to drink unfermented grape juice. If it was as simple as a trip to the local hypnotherapist (btw I have been having regular hypnotherapy as part of my recovery, for years) and a sachet of green stuff, then I am sure that none of us would have any problems at all.

[Doggygirl]

Am I wrong in finding this article pretentious??

I've come to believe that recovery can be just as progressive as the downhill slide of alcholism is. Her article has the tone of something I could have written (and probably did, here) early in my recovery. Her details are different, but I thought I had all the answers from day 31 or so to day 60AF. Then relapse, and the REAL journey began. I don't know it all today and probably never will. I hope her solution works for her as I hope everyone's does. Odds are there will be more learning ahead for all of us.

DG

[sapphire1]

Am I wrong in finding this article pretentious??

sapphire1;971618 wrote: I agree with you Neart, I would have loved to have read this article some time back when I was a 'Gutter Drunk' because I was looking for any sort of validation that I could become a respectable drinker and not have to take the reality of total abstinance. The reality is that the incidence of binge, heavy drinking is rapidly rising especially with our teenagers. I have four sons and I see a very fast generational shift in the last ten years from occasional social drinking, to drinking massive amounts of alcohol very quickly. The idea that drinking two glasses of wine daily as being much healthier than not drinking at all, has been perpetuated by makers of the stuff and in fact has no scientific foundation at all...it is the ingredients in the grape that has the health benefit, not the alcohol content, so therefore it is much wiser to drink unfermented grape juice. If it was as simple as a trip to the local hypnotherapist (btw I have been having regular hypnotherapy as part of my recovery, for years) and a sachet of green stuff, then I am sure that none of us would have any problems at all.

BTW, I have registered a comment to that paper about the article...I will open up a great big can of worms: here goes: PRETENTIOUS RUBBISH

[rubywillow]

Am I wrong in finding this article pretentious??

We must all find our way, but one thing we heavy drinkers DON'T need is another excuse. An opinion, of course, but we all know we look for the easy way out. Modding works for some. To me that means an occasional drink on a special occasion, a couple of times a year.
Years ago, I heard or read something I find to be a truth: 'if we think we have a problem, we probably do'. So we need to address the problem.

[Topsy-Turvy-Tracy]

Am I wrong in finding this article pretentious??

Doggygirl;971621 wrote: I've come to believe that recovery can be just as progressive as the downhill slide of alcholism is. Her article has the tone of something I could have written (and probably did, here) early in my recovery. Her details are different, but I thought I had all the answers from day 31 or so to day 60AF. Then relapse, and the REAL journey began. I don't know it all today and probably never will. I hope her solution works for her as I hope everyone's does. Odds are there will be more learning ahead for all of us.
DG

That sounds right to me. To call an account of someone's experience "wrong" or "dangerous" or "rubbish" seems to me to be . . . well, pretentious, and not accurately the reflecting the reality that none of us has "the sole solution," and that we all are learning as we go. I've been at this for quite a long time, more than two decades trying to quit. I've met many people who said they had "THE SOLUTION" (in AA, of course), but I've never met a single person who could claim a 100% cure rate for whatever method they espoused. It's kind of silly, I think.

[neart]

Am I wrong in finding this article pretentious??

My problem with the article wasn't that she was trying a different approach to AA. I just felt from reading it that she seemed to consider that you're only an alcoholic if you are in the gutter/a wife beater.

And I think it's good for all of us to try and find different ways to deal with an AL problem, so I have nothing against her going for hypnotherapy and taking supplements to help her. Sure I take L glut and Rhodiola and am reading whatever I can. My issue is that she seems to be claiming in the article that 4 days means it works. I've been AF 81 days, and I don't think that qualifies me to go write in a newspaper that because I haven't had a drink in 81 days, that I don't have an AL problem.

She says:
"But the fact that I haven't had a night off drinking (with the exception of a couple of week-long spas) in ten years, and that if I drink more than a thimbleful of red wine I get bad-tempered, tired, bloated, dizzy and argumentative, added up to something bordering on a real problem".

I remember a psychiatrist saying to me one time that alcoholism doesn't necessarily mean drinking a bottle of vodka a day. Alcoholism is when alcohol is causing problems in your life.

ps Sapphire - I presume you are Saffy!