Harper`s Article

[hillsidetime]

The January Harper`s magazine has a very interesting article about AA and some other interesting ideas and concepts. It is certainly worth a read. I would like to discuss some of the concepts that were brought up in the article with some of you who have read it, or who have knowledge in these ideas.

- one interesting concept was discussion about alcoholism being a disease vs having a genetic component
- another was, does the label of alcoholism help or hurt someone
- yet another was the view by some that alcoholics have a chemical brain imbalance (be it disease or allergy)
- another was that some of us have been self medicating for anxiety or depression or other mental issues with alcohol
- the pink cloud concept was introduced
- the maxim, everything you put ahead of your sobriety you are going to lose was introduced
- relapse as part of recovery, mantra, was discussed
- the alcoholic being unable to stop drinking on the basis of self-knowledge, was a point introduced, that I would really like to explore

Hill

[Doggygirl]

Harper`s Article

Sounds like an interesting article. Do you know if it is available on-line? If so, would love a link! Mean time, I will offer up my personal experience on the topics you list:

hillsidetime;1028389 wrote: - one interesting concept was discussion about alcoholism being a disease vs having a genetic component
Some of the more sensible history I've heard about the "disease" model really has to do with treatment and how it is paid for. By categorizing alcoholism as a disease, insurance comes into play. To the degree that is true (I'm going on hearsay) and has made treatment more accessible to people struggling with alcohol addiction, then YEAH!!! Beyond that, I don't spend time worrying or debating the question. It really doesn't matter to my recovery whether it's a disease or not. It was (and could again be) a life threatening problem by whatever name we give it.

- another was, does the label of alcoholism help or hurt someone
I like the AA approach to this "label" which is that I am the one who decides if I'm an alcoholic or not, and whether I call myself that or not. If someone prefers to call their problem something else, fine by me. The only harm comes when there is denial, as I know all to well from floating down that river for many years. (there is a common misperception that a person is required to identify as an alcoholic in AA meetings. That is not true. The only requirement for membership in AA is a desire to stop drinking)

- yet another was the view by some that alcoholics have a chemical brain imbalance (be it disease or allergy)
Two books I have read recently which I think lend credence to the idea of brain chemistry problems are The Diet Cure by Julia Ross and Potatoes Not Prozak by Kathleen Des Maisons. I could really identify with descriptions of low seratonin also with description of beta endorphin problems. This is also consistent with the My Way Out approach with amino acids being a part of the treatment process. (for anyone who hasn't read the My Way Out book, I highly recommend doing that.)

- another was that some of us have been self medicating for anxiety or depression or other mental issues with alcohol
To me, there is no doubt about it.


- the pink cloud concept was introduced

I experienced this. There was a certain euphoria in early sobriety just being sober. It was a truly amazing thing just going day to day and not drinking. A miracle. It is still a miracle, but real life has set in. I have found new satisfaction in sobriety by seeking personal and spiritual growth. Emotional maturity that I was not capable of when drinking on a daily basis.


- the maxim, everything you put ahead of your sobriety you are going to lose was introduced

I don't know for sure what I will lose (sober or not). I do know this - if I don't keep my sobriety #1, I put everything else in my life (including my life) at risk.


- relapse as part of recovery, mantra, was discussed

Not sure what the context was for this. Unfortunately, it seems that a high percentage of us go through relapse somewhere on the path to recovery. I don't recommend a choise to drink (relapse) for this reason though!


- the alcoholic being unable to stop drinking on the basis of self-knowledge, was a point introduced, that I would really like to explore

I am assuming this comes from the quote in the Big Book of AA, so I will refer to "self knowledge" as it has been explained to me in AA.

Just knowing that drinking was a problem (self knowledge), and that I should stop all together or stop at two drinks was not enough for me to stop drinking. And I can "know" all day long that more than 2 drinks is not good for me - but NOTHING can make me stop at 2 drinks. Certainly not self knowledge. I wanted to stop (or cut down) on drinking before I found My Way Out and that knowledge / desire alone was not enough.

With the My Way Out program, I used the nutritional supplements, the hypnosis CD's, and diet and exercise recommendations, and the fellowship of this forum to help me stop. I have since added the fellowship of AA to the mix.

At the very least, I benefit from being in the company of others who are in the same boat. Fellowship with other alcoholics goes beyond "self knowledge."

I look forward to comments from others, and hope to see the actual article on-line or in print! Thanks for sharing this.

DG

[janka]

Harper`s Article

Self-knowledge alone typically is not enough to quell the desire to drink and the excess it usually entails for me. Self-knowledge is, however, I think necessary, even critical, to stay on a sober path. To acknowledge, to fully admit, that one drink almost inevitably leads to another, yet another for me (all I need to do is look at the probability given my track record) is ESSENTIAL to my sobriety and sense of well-being. I know, whole-heartedly, that I must steer clear of that first drink. That is my simple plan that is fortified by the selfless, knowledgeable support of others like those here. Peace, j

[hillsidetime]

Harper`s Article

Hi Doggygirl and Janka, thanks for your feedback. Now I have a better understanding of the use of the term self-knowledge in the case of a problem drinker. I agree with you Janka that in and of itself, self-knowledge was not enough to help me to finally stop drinking. I have been offered many drinks over the Holidays, even by my mother in law who knows I am sober, and I know that I don't want one, I want 17 drinks. For me, my self-knowledge is that I can't moderate.

Doggygirl, I agree with you in your statement about fellowship with other alcoholics. I don't think I would have been able to get where I am at now, almost 11 months sober, without this site and the wonderful people here. This concept is one that I am very interested in. It seems somehow that writing, and reading, whether it is about yourself or others, is helpful for yourself. The daily, or most days, dropping into myo, and reading and writing, and being honest about your alcoholism, is important and crucial somehow.

Can you help me understand the concept of "putting as much of the past in the past" - this was touched on in the article. I realize that we have to come to peace with the people we have wronged, and the stupid things we have done. I am not there yet. However, is it not helpful, to remember and be humbled by the bad decisions we made while drunk?

One concept that was not explored was that of an addictive personality. Does anyone have any thoughts on this concept? The article is not yet available on line, I will keep looking,
Thanks,
Hill

[medic]

Harper`s Article

I think the label of alcoholism hurts more than helps. It's one thing to recognise a condition which is destroying our lives. It's another thing to acknowledge and disclose such an idea. Our western society likes to believe it acts fairly on the pretext of non-judgemental acknowledgment when it completely does the opposite: it stigmatises and alienates anybody who does decide to reveal such a sensitive piece of information.

I cannot believe the bullshit adverts I see on television which try to say it's a good thing to come out of the closet and ask for help. In the short term it may be vital to somebody's survival but look at what happens afterwards. Look at your application forms for jobs nowadays and you may know what I'm talking about. As soon as you come clean it's a case of, "lets get this person on a database and make sure we have no liability!

Our "democratic" system is flawed. Our journalistic institutions are corrupt. Our politicians are not interested in anybody but themselves. It's no wonder so many people self medicate and reveal nothing. It's no wonder depression and suicide rates are up. If it wasn't for sites like these I wonder what the world would really be like.

I think I deviated a little from the points raised by this article. I think what I'm raising here is vital though. There's too much good intention out there and not enough real care.

[janka]

Harper`s Article

Medic, you are, in my opinion, right on target about many things. I also think that calling myself an "alcoholic" is far from helpful in any way. I am a loving mother, a human being, sometimes a perfectionist, a spiritualist, a humanitarian, a giver, a person who has abused alcohol enough to feel its awful effects, not a "diseased" (useful for insurance purposes though) personality, fulfilling a self-fulfilling prophecy, destined to doom and gloom unless I a fearful much of the time. I hate any universal labels ... they make no sense and serve no useful purpose for me except to make me feel badly. In feeling badly, guilty and remorseful, is my tendency then to again self-medicate more to ease the bad feelings??? Or to stop? Hmph.

Hill, face it ... There is nothing we can do, in any way, about or to change the past. The best we can do is learn from the past if we can genuinely be open to learning and doing things differently as baby steps to build a better today and future. Rehashing, reliving and ruminating about the past is many times, I think, ill-conceived and self-destructive even. Forge ahead with today, do something new/good for yourself today, do something good for someone else today ... it feels good in a constructive, wholesome, life-giving way. This kind of active behaving works. j

[mama bear]

Harper`s Article

this is a great thread...Thanks!!

[janka]

Harper`s Article

Yes Medic, our democratic system is flawed and corrupt, so is the "News" on TV. Just an FYI, I worked as a "Project Director" for a "public policy" research firm -- i.e., we conducted surveys for candidates for public office, and in the end, basically helped them write speeches that would appeal to the majority (masses), which basically regurgitated words and phrases collected in our surveys and focus groups. This is "research" for some things. Even medical "research" is not pure and prone to "cooking" statistics for fear that government grant funding may be jeopardized (I worked in a premier, scientific research environment). Remember when everyone flocked to margarine because research findings, scientific ones, said butter was bad for you?? Well, now we are told to avoid margarine.
What's the point??? In general, common sense, good old-fashioned self-discipline, and simple recipes for living well seem to have longer lived staying power and meaningfulness. Oh well, j

[allswell]

Harper`s Article

Hi All,

I am only speaking for myself and my own place in this small world.

I don't have a disease because I did all of this to myself. I am responsible for everything I do whether it be past, present, or future.
I am not going to blame family members, failed marriages, or past events for where I am today since I am the only one to blame for where I am.
I will work hard for positive change.
I will be the best I can be.

Not meant to sound uppity or anything like that, I am only describing my take on my situation and the only person to blame for it is myself.

[hillsidetime]

Harper`s Article

Hi Medic, I think there is a lot of truth in what you say. The label of alcoholic can be used against a person for sure. This is a sad situation.

Medic and Janka, the term functioning alcoholic is one that is used often in articles or in mwo, but that is more of a private descriptor used by people to describe their behaviour. What are your thoughts on that as a personal lable used by people as a way to get a grasp on their situation.

Janka I agree with you about the self fulfilling prophecy, aspect, of the term alcoholism and what that entails. Is there an aspect to an addictive personality though? Do you think that the term alcohol addict is appropriate?

Janka, ruminating, is a great word to describe some of the demons that pop up from the alcohol related past. They used to come fierce and intense, they may have decreased a few percent in intensity. I am moving on, and becoming the person I want to be, a person that I am proud of. I can't chop the past off, like cutting the end of a tail off though.

Hey allswell, your post is honest, and I really connect with what you have said. Part of why I cannot let go of the past stems from your exact point - it is my fault I did those stupid things. I knew that I was drinking too much, and risking too much, and running the fine line, but I thought I could defeat the system. I thought I could burn the candle at both ends. No dice.

Hill

[brightlite]

Harper`s Article

Great Post!

I'm an alcohol addict. I am one of the 1 in 10 people that has a chemical imbalance prone to (alcohol) addiction. What happened to my turn off switch? Did it break? Did I ever have one? I cannot process alcohol normally, therefore I cannot drink. Those are my thoughts.

It's easy for people that are not addicted to alcohol or any substance to say..."oh that person is an alcoholic" with the only reasoning behind that statement is that the alcoholic individual is a "weak" individual. I don't like societies stereotype of an "alcoholic".

Yes, once labeled it goes in the database! Big Brother knows! Yikes! There goes your life, your hard work. It is messed up. That's why so many of us fly under the radar!

[Sunnyvalenting]

Harper`s Article

Great thread,
I, too, prefer the term alcohol dependence or alcohol/substance abuse as they more clearly define the problem. The term alcoholic is hard to define.
Self knowledge and understanding of the disease are not the solution but cannot hurt unless they divert energy away from the real problem. The reasons WHY we drank initially, tho possibly interesting, are not helpful for solving the problem. What we must do is rewire our brains to alternatives to abusive or dependent drinking. This can be very difficult. This is done in a variety of ways but there are some things we know for sure.
Family support is very helpful (even better than AA as it turns out) but many people have lost this support for a variety of reasons and do benefit from that type of social support. It need not be an either/or issue.
Medication to reduce the cravings or the reinforcing nature of the substance have been shown to be much more effective than behavioral intention alone. IMO the 2 approaches together seem more useful but this has not been borne out by studies. In fact the naltrexone studies showed no enhancement of effect with ongoing counselling.
the most common reasons for relapse in alcohol dependent rats who have recovered are:

[Sunnyvalenting]

Harper`s Article

Continued:
1Exposure to the substance
2exposure to the site of past use
3Stress.

these causes are relevant to my own recovery in that I have made a decision for complete and permanent abstinence, I avoid situations where I might have earlier drank(this is very hard as I was a home alone type of drinker) and I am learning to cope with stress differently. But most importantly to me I took baclofen which gave me an extended relief of cravings while I executed my plans.
I have been AF for almost 1 year now and will be signing off of MWO on Jan 13th which will be my 1 year goal.
Wishing all of you the best success.
Sunny

[mylife]

Harper`s Article

Hi Guys, great thread.

I have been exploring a lot of these concepts in the past year or so on my own as I struggle with this disease. There is my first slip -- to me it is a disease!

When I first heard the concept that I had a chemical imbalance, I rejected it. However, the more I thought about it and traced it back the more convinced I have become that at least for me, there is definitely a chemical imbalance that flipped a switch in my brain at some point. Another interesting thing I noticed is that I will actually sneeze and become congested when drinking after not having had AL for some time.

I also hate the term ALCOHOLIC for all it's negative connotations. Alcohol and my chemistry don't mix well, so I stay away from it. That's the way I look at it. Some people do fine with it, and I just don't. The term Alcoholic to me depicts so many negative images, that I'd rather not be associated with that word.

I don't really know about the addictive personality concept. I think that really, this goes back to some of us having a particular brain chemistry that becomes altered with certain substances, while others may not be so sensitive to them.

I'd love to see that article and this is a really interesting thread! Thanks Hill.

[janka]

Harper`s Article

Hi Hill and everyone -- I think the idea of disease is constructive for a lot of people, so that is very, very good, useful and works. But I do think choice/free will have a serious impact on our sobriety, actions and well-being. It is I who choose to take a drink which in likelihood leads to many more. I do/have become "diseased" (sick) and "chemically imbalanced" (also sick) as a result of my abuses. These illnesses, to me, can be corrected, perhaps even cured (blasphemy!). To me, it really doesn't matter, add any weight or help in solving my problem, if I call myself an "addictive personality." Okay, maybe I am ... so what? "Rewiring our brains to alternatives to abusive and dependent drinking," as Sunny said above, is for me the Number One, very difficult stepping stone in building and fortifying my sobriety. Just some thoughts, peace, j