new job, taken away. devastated.

[ATLThrash]

new job, taken away. devastated.

What state is this in? You may be able to get your application but in 20 years of practice I have never heard of an employer having to provide notes unless they are subpoened during a court process. My husband who is also an employemtn lawyer and partner with one of the 10 biggest firms in the country has never heard if ti either. No employer has a duty to tell anyone why they did not hire them (in the absence of a proceeding by a human rights or EEOC commission investigation). So the short answer is legally you are not entitled to know anything about why they did not hire you. They could choose to tell you but probably won't-- if employers had to provide the things you listed-- no employer would ever hire anyone for fear of getting sued.

I know you want answers but they aren't compelled to give them. Speculation may drive you nuts too! As for the person from your current company calling up at their own initiation, that would stink if they did that but as long as they presented their assessment as their opinion the elements of slander can't be proved (this is a whole lot of legal stuff-- people think anytime someone says bad stuff about them it is slander but proving slander is a whole different matter). Is it possible that the current employer felt you were disloyal by seeking the new job at a competitor and said that? I would not think that would lead to rescinding-- the manager should see that type of stuff as sour grapes. In reality there is likely a great possibility that the manager just had another applicant come in after the offer, wanted to hire them and made up a reason to do so (bad reference) because they did not want to be seen as so arbitrary. This is absolutely terrible HR and management practice but it happens a whole lot. Unless they decided that they did not want to hire you because you are a woman, black (don't know if you are-- I am just putting the discriminatory reasons in there) etc and wanted to go with another person because of that-- the flip flop is not actionable. I know this feels so bad to you. You are still a good person with the same skills that you had before this process. If it is that they just wanted to go with someone else and then told you it was references, the silver lining is that nothing was bad about you.

If you want to know the truth you can go to your local EEOC or human rights commission (again do not know where you are) and file a charge saying that the failure to hire was based on some discriminatory reason. Then the employer would have to respond. I DO NOT recommend this at all because based on what you said it does not look like they did not hire you because of discrimination-- they just decided not to hire you-- however ridiculous and arbitrary that might be. Employers are allowed to be ridiculous if they want (they might not be in business long but there is no law against being a fool)There can be serious penalties for alleging that the employer was discriminatory in the absence of evidence and you can be sanctioned. These processes are in fact often used for a fishing expedition to find out why someone did not get hired--but it would be unethical (as well as illegal-- perjurious) to allege that this was a reason simply in a search for the truth. If I were you, I would call the HR person you dealt with and ask for feedback. This person is not directly responsible for the decision and so may provide info (probabaly not but maybe)-- if you play up the offer being rescinded (which happens more often than you think but is still not the usual course of business) the HR person may give you some feedback. But remember that the HR function is there to support the managers so they may say nothing. However if you ask-- you could take satisfaction in the fact that HR may chew the manager out for this. Small satisfaction I know but you seem to feel so bad maybe it would help. Speculating is going to drive you crazy Abi-- try to find out what you can and then move on. You are still a good worker and a good person. Your job does not define you. Good luck!

[Abielle]

new job, taken away. devastated.

I don't really know what the hardest part of all of this is. It's all been so difficult.
But, at this point, I feel like a job is all I have. I have few friends here in this town, my partner seems to be slowly pulling away from me, and I live miles from any family. My job is my source of income, yes. But at this point is my only real source of confidence, accomplishment, hope for the future, place to make human connections, etc. It is my whole world.
And, like my manager said, it isn't like there is any other place in town (in this industry) I can work now, and he sure can't see me working in another industry. So, I'm stuck where I am now. Prob going to be punished with less hours and less (if any) of a raise as well. Nice little added slap in the face.

I am so done with all of this. Done done done. It hurts so bad.

[ATLThrash]

new job, taken away. devastated.

Abi--Don't let yourself be defined solely by your job if you can. Things look bleak now but at least you have your old job and if you continue to work hard-- this will be forgotten by them and eventually it will not sting so much! Is it a large place you live? Your skill set may translate to other jobs but that may not be apparent now. If you want to PM me with any of this it is fine. Good luck!

[nancy]

new job, taken away. devastated.

the way it works

Did you explain to your manager before or after that you wanted a raise?
Lot's of people seek other jobs for that reason, even if the job you have is good.
I wouldn't feel badly about that if I were you. It does seem that the way some companies operate is that they don't give raises unless they have to, because their employee gets another offer. I wonder if you can smooth things over with your manager, maybe say you are willing to take on more responsibility and would like a pay increase.

Something else might come up, even if opportunities are limited in your industry.

I am glad you have someone on this website (Althrash) to offer so much advice.

[ATLThrash]

new job, taken away. devastated.

I agree with Nancy's approach--you can always say that it was a money issue primarily and that you are willing to re-dedicate yourself to being the great valuable employee you know you are!

[rubywillow]

new job, taken away. devastated.

ATL, it's great that you give your wonderful expertise to this. Some may not understand how valuable that is. Abi, you're lucky to have such great advise from all.

[ATLThrash]

new job, taken away. devastated.

Thanks Ruby. This is one area I feel 100% confident about--but I feel so bad for Abi and others that do not understand why they were not hired or were fired etc. There are a great many misconceptions about what an employer has to do in a hiring and firing process. Folks find it hard to believe that an employer in many states can just walk in one day, decide they don't like you or your hair or whatever and get rid of you. The right to do it is of course separate from whether or not it is a good idea. Those in California sometimes have a bit more process built in but in the US unless you have a signed employemt contract this is usually the way it is.

[Abielle]

new job, taken away. devastated.

Thank you, all of you for your suggestions. I just found out why they took the offer back. Essentially they decided to hire someone else.
Who wasn't even part of the original applicant pool.
Who applied after the deadline.
Who isn't very qualified.
But, will work for less, and is currently employed by this company.
The manager was pretty much just trying to cover her ass, and hide her sloppiness when it comes to hiring. My DUI had NOTHING to do with it. My references had NOTHING to do with it. I was way overqualified, hell I had done THAT job, for THAT company specifically, for 6 years in a different region of the country.
I am working really hard right now, to forgive her. My heart is less heavy knowing the truth. But it will really take me some time to forgive her for putting me through it. I won't be supporting that company with my hard earned money, that is for sure.
Tomorrow I have to talk to my store manager, and basically try to repair "the damage I have caused to our relationship for betraying him," as the other managers in the store have told me. That it will take time, and I will have to "win him back into my good graces."
For crying out loud. I'm an adult. I'm really over all of it already. Let's just do our jobs?!?
Sigh.
Moving forward.

[RingingCedars]

new job, taken away. devastated.

That's great Abi. The unknown seems to be worse than the known, so glad you got some answers. And you are facing it all as a sober adult! Go you! Better days ahead for you. xo

[nancy]

new job, taken away. devastated.

other managers

That's great that you know it was nothing personal about you.
I don't know why the other managers are putting you on a guilt trip. This isn't something you did against your manager. That's a very emotional way for them to look at it. You are looking out for yourself and that's what we all have to do in the working world. And it looks like this is one of the few other places you could look for a job, that there are limited opportunities where you are. Every person has the right to go out and seek other opportunities, for advancement or for better pay. Don't let them put you on a guilt trip.

[ATLThrash]

new job, taken away. devastated.

Abi--remember though that just as much as you were identifying yourself and self worth through your work-- your current manager may be doing the exact same-- and cannot separate someone wanting to go seek more money or advancement from someone personally rejecting him as a manager or the company as an employer. There are people like that, many people. When you speak to him and assure him that your decision to seek other options was nothing personal to him or the company (it was more of a matter of exploration and curiosity) and you just keep working hard-- everything will work out. Tell him that the process has opened your eyes about the things your current company does right and you plan on using that as motivation, etc. Believe me I think I have heard every conceivable smooth it over line in the world working with huge employers. And I had a feeling it was just someone else after the fact and for no reason. Sadly- to those of us who are paid to clean up the personnel and legal messes of large companies at times-- this type of stuff is all too familiar. But it was not you! And all you can do is control you and how you react. I know it was a big roller coaster ride--but you still do have a job and thoguh you might not want to work at the non-hiring company, that option is not foreclosed to you in the future (in a few months the hiring manager may be gone and this employee probably will be too if they are not qualified). Though this has put a bad taste in your mouth-- this was one manager at one place not the entire company. I am sure the company as a whole would not approve of his practices (but so long as they are not illegal as a manager he can do them-- until he screws up so much that they are tired of it)-- and that there are good managers in this company.

[Nichau]

new job, taken away. devastated.

Keep fighting the good fight, Abi! We're here for you!