Easy Way/Kicking the Drink... not getting it

[looking for peace]

Ok, I wanted to start a new thread on the Jason Vale book because I am really having issues and the other thread has gone in many different directions and I didn't want this to get lost. I thank you all in advance for bearing with me on this. I would really appreciate any input from people who have NOT gotten the message and any input from people who have gotten the message and how maybe you can help us out. I am pretty desperate for ideas.

I am in the process of re reading this for the third time, and I think I finally narrowed down the points that are not clicking with me.

1. I completely understand that alcohol is the cause of the uneasy feelings and the deprivation we feel in between drinks. Just because I completely understand that alcohol causes the anxiety, nervousness, boredom, etc, does not mean I don't want to use it to at least momentarily get rid of the feelings.

Using Allen Carr's analogy of continuing to use an ointment that causes a rash to momenterily relieve the itch...... He states that as soon as you KNOW that the ointment you've been using all this time was what caused your rash, you will automatically want to stop using in and in a couple of days the rash will be gone. Well, not me, I am an instant gratification person and I will want to continue to use the ointment. I know I am anxious because of alcohol, but also the knowledge that there is an instant fix out there (alcohol) all that knowledge goes out the window and I still want to use it, even though I know it just relieves me for a moment. Like scratching an itch. If you scratch a rash that itches, you know it will get worse, but knowing that doesn't make you stop from scratching if it's bad enough. How can I get past this?

2. I completely understand that alcohol is poison and the same as any other drug addiction. I am sure that most heroin addicts believe that heroin is poison and is a drug addiction, that information alone does not stop them from using. It seems to me that the message in these books is that as soon as you believe it's poison and not the glamorous drink we are brainwashed to believe, you will not want to pour it down your throat. I still want to at times, even though I know it's poison and does "nothing" for me, except for reason stated in #1

3. In these books, it is stated that as soon as you are absolutely certain you will never have another drink again, you will "get it". Have all of you that have quit using this method come to the realization 100%? Because I still can't rap my brain around it.

[lolab]

Easy Way/Kicking the Drink... not getting it

Hi LFP. I understand exactly what you're saying. And I think it's pretty obvious that lots of other people - even those who say they "got it" may not have had a "switch" turn completely off for them.

I have read both books and I believe that they have wonderful information in them. If you have never thought about alcohol in the way that they mention, these books can be truly mind changing. For those of us who - it appears - have been able to stop drinking with the help of either book - in my opinion, we may have happened to be at a point where we were totally 100% ready to hear the message. I quit drinkin earlier in the year for over 30 days - and I think I was really committed to it...probably 99%. It wasn't enough. I had to have that other 1%. Now I do, and there is no way that I see myself trying to have a drink in the future and no way I want to. No way am I struggling with how to present it to other people anymore, no way I am thinking I'll be let down to be cooking a holiday meal without the help of alcohol, and no way I am feeling that I'll be left out at holiday get togethers without having alcohol. These feelings aren't a direct result from reading these books. They are a huge combination of trying and failing and learning - reading the books, yes - exploring my feelings on this site and learning from other people here - lots of self reflection an staying sober long enough to look within to figure out how I do or don't want to live my life.

So, I guess what I"m saying is that I don't think anyone should expect these books to be "the answer" - like a "switch" that turns off your desire for alcohol...there's so much at play here and for most of us we've been using alcohol for many reasons for many years....but they are a very useful tool to add to your arsenal in an attempt to be alcohol free...

I don't think anyone should be beating themselves up because thy don't "get it" after reading....I think it shows that you are being honest with yourself, you're exploring your own feelings deeply and you're on the right path. If you weren't serious, there's no way you'd be giving it this much thought...

[she]

Easy Way/Kicking the Drink... not getting it

Looking for peace, I can totally relate to what you said. I'm about 100 pages into the Jason Vale book and understand every word he writes. Unfortunately, understanding doesn't equate to following. I read the Alan Carr book years ago and one thing he did say that stuck with me was that when he'd given up smoking for some time he wouldn't dream of reaching for a cigarette when faced with a trigger point (I think it was a fire in the house or something) I got that but also as a dedicated smoker it didn't work for me because getting to that point takes lots of time. Like you, it's all about instant gratification for me. I did give up smoking 20+ years ago but am still addicted to nicotine! Now I wouldn't reach for a cigarette as I surveyed my burnt out house but I would grab a nicotine tablet/gum/spray. That's being an addict and unfortunately, with alcohol there isn't an acceptable alternative to give that instant relaxation. I understand from the book that relaxation isn't the right word but!!

I'm just hanging on to the fact that he says not to give up drinking till you've finished the book so I'm reading very slowly!!

[looking for peace]

Easy Way/Kicking the Drink... not getting it

Lolab, Great points. Thanks for posting. I agree with everything you said. I think you have to be pretty much already fed up and have decided not to drink and these books just make excellent points to support the decision. They make you feel really good and confident in the decision not to drink. I think I was once again, looking for the instant gratification,(magic bullet) with these books... something to take the responsibility off of me. I wanted to be one of those people that have written the reviews here and on Amazon that says.... "I didn't even want to stop drinking, but I just started reading and after just 30 pages in, I haven't had a drink in 5 months. I don't know why it works, it just works" Well, I'm not one of those people.

I didn't want to seem negative in my initial post. I still think these books are a must read and I will continue to try to get that paradigm shift that these books require for me to be genuinely happy about never drinking again.

She, I think we need to keep at it.... whatever it takes to change our mindsets completely. I know it can happen!

[pingu1997]

Easy Way/Kicking the Drink... not getting it

hi, if it helps I drank because I was anxious (amongst other things) and ofc the drink made the anxiety and self esteem even worse..... I was too blind to see it until I was told to "cut down" by my doctor, so I came home to prove to old cow I could, and nearly 8 months later I haven't picked up a drink

I did it for the first months based on determination, lots of shouting, distraction and a blind desire to prove I could achieve something

After that period I started to question "what now" and I decided to go for counselling to get to the bottom of some of the issues that caused me to drink in the first place. It was bloody hard at first and I hated it. I also went to AA (big mistake) and bought a book but I never opened it

Recently I am discovering new ways of controlling anger and anxiety, but that's an ongoing process. I have no desire to drink right now, and I have got to the point where I would feel I had let myself down

I am happier and calmer and much more confident now I don't drink. And I can't believe I am saying this because a few months ago I could never imagine it.

Hope you find some answers somewhere?
Much love
Corinnex

[K9Lover]

Easy Way/Kicking the Drink... not getting it

Hi Looking,
I?m one of the ones that ?got it? after reading the Vale book?but I agree with Lolab, I was already at the point where I was just DONE with drinking?the book just reinforced what I already knew. I?m not giving TOO much credit to the book, yes it?s a useful tool, but I was going to get to this point with or without it. There were MANY excellent points that stood out and have really helped me, but my mind was 100% ready to accept it. 23 days ago I drove drunk, sent drunken texts, made drunken phone calls and made a general ass of myself. It was the last time, and I knew it the next day. The book merely reinforced what I was already feeling. You will get there at your own pace, so please don?t be discouraged that you haven?t had the light bulb moment. Each of us is different, and there are many ways to get there. Just keep trying!
K9

[timpin]

Easy Way/Kicking the Drink... not getting it

Hi K9

I would also re-inforce this point about being ready to give up. Question was how was i going to do it ? I had tried every method possible, to the stage where my doctor has promised me Campral to help with the cravings. Now don't get me wrong, I am only on day 3 but having read Jasons book carefully, I have no cravings, nor no desire to drink ! I read Allen Carrs book and found it to be very good, however Kick the Drink..easily puts things in a different perspective. It also gives you one chance to do it. He says that if you read the book again after taking a drink then it will not have the same effect. I intend not to put myself in that position if i can help it. I have put my 100% belief in the book and I am going to stick to it. When I see my doctor next week, I also intend to tell him that i do not require the Campral as I don't want to get onto another drug ! Hope I'm right about this.

[available]

Easy Way/Kicking the Drink... not getting it

timpin it is up to what u want and need, no one else. i have not taken a thing and i find that amazing after the AL i have put in my body. i dont even think i have had major cravings which is a bit scary as listening to some people the cravings are terrible. i get an urge/need to drink but that is it. scares me as i think will i get these urges soon, later........ i dont know just going with the flow for now

[mightymite]

Easy Way/Kicking the Drink... not getting it

lfp, excellent thread. 15 days ago I decided to quit after a night of heavy drinking. I found this site and ordered the book. I finished the book and swore I would never drink again. Not because of the book, but I was just tired of drinking and the book helped cement that. NOW, I am in a funk and am almost wishing I had not said I would never drink again. I was so positive and now I just don't know. I believe in what he says but it's all about putting that information to use. I am struggling in how to do that. I agree with what you say and it's just a matter of finding the key to make it work in your life.

she, your last sentence made me laugh. Thanks, I needed a laugh.

[timpin]

Easy Way/Kicking the Drink... not getting it

Mightymite

Keep your strength. I think it may be a good idea to read the last few pages again and do a check on the reasons for not taking that drink. I have made a promise to myself and that is that if I do get into that position of temptation, then I will ask myself why it is that I need to take that drink before I actually do so. I hope I don't get into that position because I don't want to get into a position where I have to got through all of this again. Good luck my friend. Remember the bit about Mandela leaving prison. Why would he ever want to go back there ?

[mightymite]

Easy Way/Kicking the Drink... not getting it

Thanks timpin. I know, I have to remember to go back and look at those pages. He summed it up so nicely in the end. I think I just have to work a little harder at this and remember to look at my list of tools. I remember someone on this site had said that it took years to get to the place we are now and it will take time to undo what we have done and we have to be patient. Maybe it was Mr. G. He's so wise. I have been reading your posts on other threads and you are doing so well. Good luck to you and stay strong as well.

[Struggles 106]

Easy Way/Kicking the Drink... not getting it

Kick the Drink etc

Hey All
I can tell you what I got from this book , and like
a lot of you I have always read everything I could
get my hands on about alcohol addiction.
One was the approach that doesn't include AA.
I always felt bad/ guilty about not giving AA much
of a chance. After all our culture reveres AA as
the recognized answer-even the court system requiring
people to go. I've never been a joiner, and the concept
of 90 meetings in 90 days?! No way! Too much
fun stuff to be doing.
Another thing that resonated for me was getting
away from the notion that not drinking is a deprivation.
I could always imagine party-type scenarios
where I would be off to the side sober, bored, and boring.
But no-drunkenness is stupid and boring and not
drinking is freedom.
It seems to me that maybe every individual has to
Reach their own breaking point. Addiction is a very
complex subject but personally I just couldn't do it
anymore. I was worn down by my own behavior.
Not only did I send that there were people who
were weary of my shenanigans; I was tired of
all of it too.
All is not rosy here; I've not picked up my guitar
since I've been sober. This is temporary. I'm used to
playing music drunk and stoned. I'm sure my music
like everything else will improve.
Good luck to all

[nancy]

Easy Way/Kicking the Drink... not getting it

understandable

I think it's understandable that you are not getting it. I think it could be for several reasons. First let me say that I was really impressed with the Alan Carr book on a first reading and this book is just like it. They are right on about why we should not feel deprived and about societal pressure.

I think though that in their efforts to get you not to drink they have to write some things that may not ring true. Like they don't acknowledge the benefits of drinking. They say it tastes horrible. Wine tastes very good once you acquire a taste for it. It's true that it can cause anxiety but it can also relieve it. And the societal pressure to drink is very strong. It's everywhere.

It's doing something for you and that's why you don't want to give it up. Like Ken Anderson said in his book How to Change Your Drinking, when people realized Reefer Madness wasn't real, it was no deterrent. So you realize hey it does taste good and I do like it as long as it is kept in check, and suddenly the book loses it's power. Any program in my view should acknowledge what you get out of it. Also, he doesn't address biological and psychological drivers. Basically the book is way too simplistic.

I am a believer in harm reduction. Behavior change might come slowly. Make positive changes every day. Set realistic goals you can achieve. See a therapist. Consider hypnotherapy. Actually I am really starting to believe that people can be helped to cut down dramatically through specific behavior therapy, I don't know if that's true for hard core drinkers though.

[Supercrew]

Easy Way/Kicking the Drink... not getting it

It wasn't true for me Nancy. I tried for well over 10 years to do "harm reduction" and to slow down, but in the end I always ended up worse off than where I started. It was progressive and although there were times I did control my drinking somewhat...drinking only a 12 pack instead of a case of beer, or only have 4 stiff Vodka drinks 1/3 of the bottle, instead of finishing it off, I could never consistently control it.

It is real easy to say alcohol is poison, but most people know they won't die if they have a little, and they probably won't die the next time they drink, so it isn't a successful method for someone who wants instant gratification and who know odds are they aren't going to die with a couple shots of poison.

Now I was told that being that my detoxes have gotten progressively worse and I could die if I have to detox again. That was enough of a reason for me to get and remain sober. I look at alcohol as poison where even a little drink could lead me to where I might detox and die. My life is more important than the lies like alcohol tastes good to an acquired taste and the other BS benefits of drinking and all the "societal pressures". They are all just excuses that might seem real to you, but it is just because you still believe you need alcohol in your life. I drank for 27 years, and I still hang out with drinkers, and I love life more now than I ever did drinking. There are no benefits to drinking. My wife who I have been with with over 20 years has never drank, and guess what she is healthy, beautiful, and she enjoys life...and feels no pressure to drink. It is all about your perception.

The real reason why people don't get it or why it doesn't ring true is because you don't have a big enough reason to really want to quit, and it seems impossible to lead a happy fulfilled life without alcohol. They have been programmed that alcohol = happiness and success and relaxation and a mature and refined palate. Well guess what, if alcohol causes you problems in life and you have actively looked for help, and you are still drinking it's because you are addicted and alcohol is more important to you than the problems it causes you. I apologize if I offended anyone, but it is what it is when it comes alcohol and addiction.

There are no reasons to drink, only excuses.

[Struggles 106]

Easy Way/Kicking the Drink... not getting it

I agree Supercrew

Harm reduction? Reduction to what? An acceptable level? Of harm?
I've been throught his conversation many times; how about harm ELIMINATION?
And yes-our culture romanticizes drinking, lots of $$$$$ to be made. I also believe that
the notion that alcohol = happiness, hipness, coolness, and all that crap is just that-crap.
ANother factor not mentioned here is that behavior-when not drinking- is profoundly affected by the alcohol that is ingested even from time to time. Brain changes with drinking are a known fact; behavior is affected by drinking at any level.
So the idea of behavioral therapy SHOULD include the desire and effort to change behavior,
as well as stop the input of substances that affect it.
I will never be an advocate of moderation. I cannot do it, and I know many many people who continue with this delusion. Either drink it or don't. As far as I can tell it's a very straightforward decision.
I agree that the book is simplistic, as addiction is a very complicated physiological conundrum. But to me one indisputable fact is that alcohol serves no useful purpose for people who are addicted to it. Or probably for anyone else for that matter.