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    #16
    ROCK BOTTOM

    GingerDust;1277749 wrote: For your analogy to work, alcohol would have to equate to freedom when in reality is a nightmare.

    What the antabuse does for me is buy time between the hot button moment when I impulsively want a drink and the moment when I can safely have a drink. It's not a couple days to think about it. It is at least a week. The other great benefit is that since I canNOT drink no matter what (for at least for a week), the thought of drinking quickly subsides and other thoughts and ways of thinking are allowed to flourish.

    It's great that writing out the pros and cons worked for you but, frankly, if it was that simple, alcoholism would not exist.
    I apologize if you don't agree with my assessment of antabuse. As far as my analogy if you really believe drinking is a nightmare why would you "impulsively want a drink"? As far as your contention that if it were that simple alcoholism would not exist. I really think we make the solution much harder than it really is......I know, I almost drank myself to death until I found my solution. I was physically addicted as well as mentally obsessed with drinking for 27 years.

    I contemplated each program, and researched antabuse and the drugs that others use to try to beat it. Although I don't subscribe to AA, there were a couple main points that I learned that helped me. First I had to accept the fact that once I started drinking I had no power to consistantly control it, second I had to get over the notion that I would ever be able to moderately drink again. Most people who quit for good come to grips with those 2 ideas. Antabuse in my opinion only lengthens that process. If you were allergic to lobster would you need to take a drug that would make you even sicker if you ate it...or would you find ways to mentally come to grips with the fact that lobster makes you sick and depressed and do stupid stuff, (even if it was your favorite food) and take lobster off of your menu?

    Now I know most peoples lives are not build around eating lobster, like mine was built around drinking, but when I looked at my pro and con list they went something like this.

    Pros of drinking: I've always done it. Makes me more socialable.
    Cons of drinking: sickness, depression, DUI, failing health, embarass my family, embarass myself, divorce, waste of money, ruin plans with my family, early death, put my family in financial peril, jail, bad example for my children, wife and kids will eventually hate me, i don't like myself when I'm drunk, etc etc.

    I know it seems simple, but if you can truly look at the pros and cons everyday, the daily decision to stay sober made sense, and I quit drinking one day at a time. If I felt like drinking I would basically make myself physically ill and read over my list. Once I got though day one, I did the same thing for day 2 and so on. If you really want to quit drinking it is very simple.....not easy mind you but very simple, quit putting the bottle to your lips and learn to love the results of sobriety. Anyone who tells you any different is lying to you.

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      #17
      ROCK BOTTOM

      I agree with Supercrew but hey, whatever works for you. We all have the same goal in mind...

      Tips,
      Your frustration about swearing off AL in the morning only to drink again that night reminded me of my last days before rehab.

      Last summer, 2 weeks before I was about to move back to the UK from Canada. I emailed my parents one drunken night in utter desperation saying I was thinking about meds or rehab because my drinking was so out of control.

      Almost immediately regretted it because I managed to not drink 'as much' in the two weeks that followed. Told myself the drinking stopped on my last night in Canada. Woke up on my final morning and finished the half glass of wine that was still there. Told myself I wouldn't drink on the plane. Got drunk on the plane. Told myself I wouldn't drink in England. Bought 2L duty free vodka.

      I then spent the next 3 days sleeping all day and drinking all night. I was having withdrawals and having to drink (the first one would make me puke) just to feel 'normal'. In the middle of each night that week I would start shaking and crying uncontrollably. Just desperate for this hell to stop.

      One of those mornings my mum found me passed out in the living room. I had no recollection of going in there. I told her I needed to go to hospital, that I knew I was really sick, I need help to physically stop drinking and cried some more.

      We went to visit a rehab centre that day and not even 6 hours later, I was telling my parents that I wasn't going to rehab, I was going to quit on my own and that the allergy/illness model was a load of crap. I was just going to stop and not spend all that money and time because I didn't really "need' to.

      If I can say that when I was in THAT state, I'm not surprised you can't stay away from the half a bottle of wine a night that doesn't really mess with your physical health. This is how powerful addiction is.

      It sucks but that's what it can do to us. As Supercrew said, if you were allergic to an everyday food, you wouldn't keep on eating it and/or take another drug so you could NOT eat it. You would take it off the menu. And same as Supercrew, I now CHOOSE not to drink. I live on my own and in theory it would be really easy to drink but I know that it was destroying my life. I accept that I cannot moderate so it has to be total abstinence.

      The way I see it, it's not my fault I have this allergy (or whatever you want to call it) to AL but it is my responsibility to do something about it. So I am!

      Hope you had a good evening and were able to enjoy yourself despite this internal battle that is raging in you.
      Bean

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        #18
        ROCK BOTTOM

        Supercrew;1277865 wrote: I apologize if you don't agree with my assessment of antabuse.
        You are sharing your assessment, Supercrew. I am sharing my experience.

        First I had to accept the fact that once I started drinking I had no power to consistantly control it, second I had to get over the notion that I would ever be able to moderately drink again. Most people who quit for good come to grips with those 2 ideas. Antabuse in my opinion only lengthens that process.
        How, in your opinion (assessment?), does antabuse "lengthen" the process? That makes no sense.

        If you really want to quit drinking it is very simple.....not easy mind you but very simple, quit putting the bottle to your lips and learn to love the results of sobriety. Anyone who tells you any different is lying to you.
        Wow. You really are a "my way or the highway" kind of person. Antabuse guarantees the first part (not putting the bottle to your lips), which allows for the second part (learning to love the results of sobriety), so your objection to it still seems irrational to me. Actually, what seems even more irrational is that you are trying to dissuade Tip from trying it at all.

        I've got to say this, the condescension that drips from your posts is quite off-putting and not the sort of thing that I would expect to hear from someone who is enjoying recovery. Your dissing of Antabuse (which, going by your words, would certainly extend to all AL meds) on MWO (a med-based program) seems an unfortunate irony.

        Tip, you know I'm pulling for you! :l Ignore this guru and take the dang pills. :l:l
        Ginger



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          #19
          ROCK BOTTOM

          Im not sure why you feel the need to argue with the way I feel. I didn't "diss" antabuse, I think it lengthens the process because you eventually have to quit putting booze to your lips on your own. If the pros and cons of drinking won't make that happen, then antabuse will only keep you alcohol free until you go off of it, then you will drink again. You have to make the decision, a drug can't do it for you. (Now I have dissed antabuse). I dont understand the name calling either. If you don't like my posts or my advice dont read them.

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            #20
            ROCK BOTTOM

            Tippler

            I feel your pain. Not in a very good place right now, I hate myself for my weakness but am ever hopeful. Hugs and good luck xx
            Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it! ~ Goethe

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              #21
              ROCK BOTTOM

              Supercrew;1278017 wrote: Im not sure why you feel the need to argue with the way I feel.
              Am I arguing with way you feel
              , Supercrew?

              Feelings ? sensation

              Assessment ? valuation

              Are you saying now that your evaluation of antabuse is based on nothing more than your feelings?

              If you dislike being called a guru, please stop behaving like one and knock it off with your ?holier than thou? my-way-or-no-way approach to stopping drinking, especially on a thread where a friend of mine is struggling for sobriety.

              I didn't "diss" antabuse, I think it lengthens the process because you eventually have to quit putting booze to your lips on your own. If the pros and cons of drinking won't make that happen, then antabuse will only keep you alcohol free until you go off of it, then you will drink again.
              Bad news, Supercrew. Science disagrees with your feelings.

              Antabuse - Long-Term Antabuse Treatment Shows Big Results

              If you don't like my posts or my advice dont read them.
              I promise that I will keep responding to you in this manner as long as you continue posting as you have on this thread, especially where a friend of mine is struggling for sobriety. But feel free to ignore my posts if you don?t like them.
              Ginger



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                #22
                ROCK BOTTOM

                Oh gosh people, we all take different journeys to sobriety, it isn't a one size fits all, can we all just be friends
                "When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it"

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                  #23
                  ROCK BOTTOM

                  GingerDust;1278032 wrote: Am I arguing with way you feel, Supercrew?

                  Feelings ? sensation

                  Assessment ? valuation

                  Are you saying now that your evaluation of antabuse is based on nothing more than your feelings?

                  If you dislike being called a guru, please stop behaving like one and knock it off with your ?holier than thou? my-way-or-no-way approach to stopping drinking, especially on a thread where a friend of mine is struggling for sobriety.



                  Bad news, Supercrew. Science disagrees with your feelings.

                  Antabuse - Long-Term Antabuse Treatment Shows Big Results



                  I promise that I will keep responding to you in this manner as long as you continue posting as you have on this thread, especially where a friend of mine is struggling for sobriety. But feel free to ignore my posts if you don?t like them.

                  Please lets not this dissolve into something ugly, can't we all have different opinions without arguing? We're here to support each other not attack one another!

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                    #24
                    ROCK BOTTOM

                    drinkingal;1278036 wrote: We're here to support each other not attack one another!
                    Yes! Let's support the OP and her rational decision about how best to approach her way out, without criticizing it. I could not agree more.
                    Ginger



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                      #25
                      ROCK BOTTOM

                      Having read this discussion which took place while I was out for dinner last night I have to acknowledge that we are all very passionate people and I really appreciate the lengths you are all willing to go to help a fellow traveler in this A/F journey.

                      I plan on ordering the antabuse and here is why: I believe the habit of opening and drinking that wine on a nightly basis is purely a mental thing. I KNOW I can have fun without alcohol and have often done just that. If I can break the nightly habit by 'not being able to drink' because of the terrible results, then by the time a few months have gone by, I will have unlearned the habit of nightly drinking and will have worked on creating more healthy habits and activities to fill my evenings. Antabuse is a CRUTCH - I agree with that. I have a 'broken' habit pattern and I want to use the crutch to limp along until I get strong enough to hobble along on my own.

                      Superscrew you are strong and you managed to give up alcohol without that crutch which is available and has proven to have good results. We all envy people like you but some of us don't have your strength and determination. It's really not that simple for some of us or we wouldn't be here.

                      Ginger Dust I know you're just protecting my best interests and were afraid I would be convinced not to go the antabuse route. I may still be able to do it without antabuse but at this point, I doubt it. I have a weak willed side to me despite what anyone says. It's just one of my faults. I am still hoping my sister can order them in the u.s. and send them to me in Canada.

                      So, please, let's stop debating about the merits of antabuse as we all have the right to our own opinions and what works for some is absolute garbage to another.

                      I am calmer this morning even though I had two glasses of wine with dinner. In a perfect world I would enjoy my wine with a dinner in a nice restaurant. I doubt though that I can ever achieve the balance necessary for this to happen. The mornings that kill me are the ones during the week when I went to bed tipsy for no reason except that I couldn't help myself...

                      Everyone enjoy your Saturday.
                      Tipplerette

                      I do this for my children, my grandchildren, my health, my peace of mind, and mostly for the opportunity to learn to live with my true, unfiltered, clear-headed, vulnerable self.

                      "If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading."
                      ? Lao-Tzu

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                        #26
                        ROCK BOTTOM

                        Bean;1277910 wrote: I agree with Supercrew but hey, whatever works for you. We all have the same goal in mind...

                        If I can say that when I was in THAT state, I'm not surprised you can't stay away from the half a bottle of wine a night that doesn't really mess with your physical health. This is how powerful addiction is.

                        It sucks but that's what it can do to us. As Supercrew said, if you were allergic to an everyday food, you wouldn't keep on eating it and/or take another drug so you could NOT eat it. You would take it off the menu. And same as Supercrew, I now CHOOSE not to drink. I live on my own and in theory it would be really easy to drink but I know that it was destroying my life. I accept that I cannot moderate so it has to be total abstinence.

                        The way I see it, it's not my fault I have this allergy (or whatever you want to call it) to AL but it is my responsibility to do something about it. So I am!

                        Bean
                        Hi Bean, thanks for your insightful comments. Alcohol is NOT destroying my life in the typical way; that's the problem. This little brain of mine justifies the glass or two of wine nightly because I haven't had all the negative results you have suffered. You, like Supercrew, have my respect and admiration for being able to give it up without antabuse. Fantastic for you !! It's really NOT like lobster to me. I love cream with my coffee but I wanted to cut out some fat about 8 months ago and stopped putting cream in my coffee. I learned to enjoy my coffee without cream. Cream is not addictive. To me it's two completely different things.

                        I want to give up wine on a nightly basis because I fear I am letting life pass me by. Instead of sitting and drinking I could be outside kayaking, snowshoeing, gardening, playing the keyboard, reading (and remembering what I read), journalling, etc. I also listed other reasons earlier.

                        Alcohol is not like lobster. I am not strong like many here. I want to have a stash of antabuse to help me so I don't waste the rest of my life half-heartedly attempting to stop.

                        Stay strong,
                        Tipplerette

                        I do this for my children, my grandchildren, my health, my peace of mind, and mostly for the opportunity to learn to live with my true, unfiltered, clear-headed, vulnerable self.

                        "If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading."
                        ? Lao-Tzu

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                          #27
                          ROCK BOTTOM

                          broken halo;1278019 wrote: I feel your pain. Not in a very good place right now, I hate myself for my weakness but am ever hopeful. Hugs and good luck xx
                          Broken Halo, you are sweet for thinking of me despite your pain. Don't fall into the same trap I've just crawled out of: self-hatred. Read some of the encouraging comments I've received and apply them to you, my friend. Keep up the good fight using whatever tools you have available to you.

                          xoxo
                          Tipplerette

                          I do this for my children, my grandchildren, my health, my peace of mind, and mostly for the opportunity to learn to live with my true, unfiltered, clear-headed, vulnerable self.

                          "If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading."
                          ? Lao-Tzu

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                            #28
                            ROCK BOTTOM

                            I apologize if I offended anyone with this post or with any of my other "holier then thou" comments. I battled my alcohol problem for the better part of 27 years. I got to the point where I thought it was impossible for me to quit drinking. Drinking ruled my life and almost ruined it and almost killed me in the process.

                            Anything that I post is my personal experience, or my personal feelings regarding how I beat my problem successfully. I have almost 450 days of sobriety going, and I will never dink again. But I was not strong when I started, I had 10+ years of futility because I never decided that I was going to banish drinking from my life. Again I apologize if my posts offend anyone, but most of you are mistaken when you think that I have some sort of willpower that you don't posess, or that I am treating alcohol addiction as something that is easy to beat. It's not, but the softer I treated the problem myself the more my problem grew. For me there was no gray area. It was all or nothing, I couldn't have it both ways and survive. I chose life and I chose sobriety. It was the hardest decision I ever made, but it was also the most rewarding. I am alive and happy today because of that choice....so I apologize again for telling you how I did it and if you find it offensive, but it worked for me and many others like me.

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                              #29
                              ROCK BOTTOM

                              Thanks for holding out the olive branch Supercrew. We all want to discuss things and not dwell on our differences but find comfort in our similarities. We all have this fight in common and everyone's experience might not exactly resonate with everyone else's. This is to be expected.

                              At this point, I honestly don't know how you found the strength to do it but hey, I have only been trying to control it for 3 years and feeling desperate for a few months.

                              Tonight I am making a roast beef and all the fixings. This normally would be an excuse for a bottle of wine but tonight my wine glass is already full with pomegranate juice and soda. It's delicious and it looks lovely.

                              If it wasn't for the passion and real caring I have seen displayed yet again, here, I would probably be sipping ethanol. Why would I let you all down when you are all rooting for me. And, most importantly, maybe it's time I stopped letting myself down.

                              Love and especially, Peace

                              xoxo
                              Tipplerette

                              I do this for my children, my grandchildren, my health, my peace of mind, and mostly for the opportunity to learn to live with my true, unfiltered, clear-headed, vulnerable self.

                              "If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading."
                              ? Lao-Tzu

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                                #30
                                ROCK BOTTOM

                                Loving your last post, Miss Tipps :l
                                Have a fabulous roast dinner and enjoy a calm and happy evening.


                                As for the conversation going on before that... I, too, wasn't "that bad". Bad enough for my taste but it wasn't a life and death decision. Perhaps, that's where the difference lies. For those of us who have relatively healthy relationships, make it to work, no DUIs, etc... the Antabuse definitely provides us with time and space to get out of the habitual thinking and really contemplate sobriety. After that, it's nice to have a little 'insurance' in your pocket for when you feel unwanted thoughts creeping in. At least, that has been MY experience.
                                Okay, WHO put a stop payment on my reality check?

                                Winning since October 24th, 2013

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