GOING OUT BUT COMING BACK IN

[Kradle123]

GOING OUT BUT COMING BACK IN

WOW!

I'm so grateful for everyone's great responses. I am 'relieved' -if that's the right word- that this 40 - 90 day mark seems to be the grand canyon of 'bargaining voices' .
You're image , K9 , of Russion Roulette is dead on. Nothing did happen in those 2 slips back in July and as Molly said Would open the flood gates and you guys conconcurred these are the most dangerous. I think I suspected that but didn't really want to embrace it if you know what I mean . I would eventually find the bullet wouldn't I???

LILLY I'm there with your exact line: I fear I haven't hit rock bottom yet which is insane as I have crap in my past which is below rock bottom....so what the hell am I thinking...
I can't imagine the one or tow. I think K9 calls that the romanticising AL. I NEED to play it forward and see the six or seven that from what I read here, what I've seen in myself and which I know deep down in my core which I will eventually pour for myself...

Its that Re-Wiring of my brain that makes me want to pull my hair out SuperCREW
AL obviously re-wired my head to get me to this place. My head game is what I've written before in posts: I'm too old and deep down I just have too flawed a character...those are my toughies. A little chicken and egg there I think but I am seeing more and more, as I get away from AL , that the Chicken AL came first and gave birth to a scrambled egg...

MOLLY I know what you mean by the emotional crippling being worse than the physical but it is still tuff to think that even a small amount poisons us because I really never drank a small amount. But it's that re-wiring thing isn't it?

NICELIFE: I think I did read your story a while ago when I was still lurking around here. I will go back and re-read it. THANKS Lilly for linking it.
6 years looks so huge to me, not just for staying away from AL but just...time. My twins will be driving!! :wow:: Well I better stay sober for that!

BOOZER AND FLY I thin the struggle is worth it too because I DO remember those mornings of horrible anxiety. God the only thing that squished it was...guess what?

TDN. I will look up your story. I've followed your posts and they always helped me. Also, I had no idea that three dog night was an AL reference . I thought it was a Band! :H

DIXON: Trying to make it real my friend :h

Love and hugs to everyone,
:l
Kids are up so off I go!

[K9Lover]

GOING OUT BUT COMING BACK IN

Kradle -

I don't know what it is about that 40-90 day mark, and boy does that 50 day spread seem huge! I think its when our brains tell us we're "OK"....we don't really have a problem if we've gone 40, 50, 60+ days not drinking, right? Wrong. I've screwed up on day 40 about 4 times. My "one day" of drinking turned into a couple of weeks. It's just TOO EASY to fall back into the abyss. Don't risk it. I know you know what to do, and I'm glad you came here and talked about it. I wish I had those few times I messed up...instead I withdrew from MWO...big mistake. Stick close to us...we'll get you through this! :h

K9

[Wildflowers]

GOING OUT BUT COMING BACK IN

I've had similar experiences like Coach Crew & many others here on my journey. I usually find parts of myself all over here & elsewhere. I don't like saying this, there are some who lie the loudest to themselves & I was once doing that too & it helps me stay sober now. Ego's & prides the size of Mt Everest. That was me & it just about killed me several times, my lieing to myself!...

It really is all individual! My hubs reminds me that nobody could tell me. I mean they could, but I just was going to follow this into the gates of hell at one point & then another.... & stay. I was highly functional through most of it, so I thought. Another lie. When your built to drink, this can go on, on & on... The layers of denial can be so very ~ very thick!... With a multitude of reasons, justified, or not. If those reasons haven't YET really disrupted a persons life, many don't find there way out permanently. Well some do & unfortunately it's 6ft under. Tho some like my ex neighbor did get out with little consequences. She is a bank VP. She has 9 yrs of sobriety now, we have stayed in touch thru e-mail. She had 5 before, same thing, same story "once a pickle you don't get to be a cucumber again" I don't want to ever get to cocky, or think I have this devil under control. I've seen to many over the years think their cured, when there really in remission. If not addicted yet, I've witnessed over prolonged use this happening.

My friend SV said it's the words you speak & hear between your own ears that matter most. My signature line was born. Along with Byrdies " Not One ~ Not Ever ~ No Matter What ~ No Matter Who " Have saved my Arse!... a few times, along with my attitude, change of thinking. Not perfect, but it's progress Kradle. I'm sober today & grateful today. I take it one day at a time!...Even tho I've made a commitment to myself to not drink again, ever!... Most the time I'm pretty happy about!. The other way wasn't really livin! I'm at a point of true ~ honest ~acceptance of my alcoholism. A mature & healthy attitude!... The idea that I can "drink normally has to be smashed" This is the foundation to build upon all other recovery skills.

We discussed, debated in 07-08 OP-Rehab, would a person continue to drink if nothing bad happened at % intervals. Well low & behold I was the only Nimrod who raised my hand at the 50% mark. I received Kudos for honesty. Whoopty Doo. The clinician looked right into my eyes & said this doesn't give you a free license to go & drink. Of course I did! I returned with my tail between my legs a 1.5 wks later. Only after being prompted by calls from my case mgr. I was lucky that he was the clinical supervisor of all the clinicians. He told me back then that as I aged alcohol would effect me differently & it wouldn't be positive. I believe Now, he was "Correcto Mundo". But I had to do more experimenting & researching. I hope you don't have to! I was told by some wise smart ass, that my misery would be refunded promptly, for my experimenting & researching. I loved & hated this person. I now, just love him, cause he was trying to save my sorry arse, a whole lot of misery & suffering!...

Since then my relationship with alcohol has completely changed. Mainly cause, it hasn't gotten better out there! Another Kodak moment. I've found that the professionals weren't lieing to me!... It's a reoccurring, progressive disease after all. Damn't I wanted to be right!.... So right I almost died & times I wished I could, or felt like I was going to. I know I can recuperate & start this whole damn bloody process over again, cause I too have played those games, but it's fecking damaging in more ways then one. I'm too damn old, it's time for me to grow up & face facts & quit gamblin with my life, like others have said. "Dodging the bullet".

I've found that at milestone markers I get sideways ~ squirrely . My latest~ biggest hurdles have been after the 90~100 day marks. But, I've had so many starts & stops, frankly it's hard to remember all of them. There were times it was a day, 4 days, a week, 2 wks, 30, 60 & so on. I know it's PAWS & have skills now to manage them, education, being aware is protection against slips ~ relapses. Knowing that I'm not really losing my mind, loss of sleep, memory impairment, won't kill me is all part of this healing process. No more excuses!... Commitment only for myself to AF life!... That one day I will get my marbles back, hopefully in full. Keep laughing as much as I can helps me a lot!... Tho, I accept my tears, my days of depression too, I accept all my emotions as part of my pathway to peace these days. Not always easy, but I will ride them all out!.. Its my desire to live a reasonably happy life. When feckers, I don't like get in my way, I try hard to pray for them!... Until my attitude changes. It's for me not them. I don't want the committee taking up free rent in my head. There's too many voices living up there now.

My last AF period 3/18/12 ~ 5/12/12 ( 55 Days) I had just enough time to build up a little tolerance again. But, my slip turned right into a relapse. It scared the the bejeezus out of me. Think cause I've visited a few different corners of hell in the past. Along with I may have sucked up most my Dopamine. Finally realized alcohol was causing me more anxiety then not! I used to believe the opposite for a very long time! So fecking happy to not be spinning in that hampster wheel. Tho believe me there are still days that my brain, says have some, you'll feel better. Well, it's all a big fat feckin lie! I tell the bastard, go to hell. Repeat, Byrdie's excellent sayings & my sig line over & over too! ( Thx Byrdie ~ SV ) Along with get busy ~ into action. Practice HALT, go for a walk, yoga, I'm big into visualization, talk to somebody, don't isolate, stay connected here & elsewhere!... I also have lavender growing, buy vials of oil in off months. Have used urge ~ body surfing, listen to nature music, have punched pillows, screamed, cussed, snapped pony tail bands around my wrist, star gazed, prayed & eatin bags of chocie. Probably more.... There has been a ton of research & there is ton of help to stop drinking if that's what a person really wants!... This isn't easy, as we all know, but worth it. "Protect Your Quit At All Costs" I'm giving up a fabulous camping trip at a wonderful nature water location, losing money too, but I'm not risking my sobriety!... I know people will be getting drunk, it's not fecking worth my sobriety!... I'm worth more today!.... Bingo

It was explained to me that the brain has enormous wires, files that for whatever reasons a person ran to the drink, ie, emotional ~ mental ones (used as a coping method) it remembers. It's first instinct when a thought, or feeling is to survive when encountered, it wants to run again to the bottle, but every time I don't run (escape), new wires & files are created. “Amygdala Hijacking”. It's going to take work & quite a long time to create new wires & files. New thinking, new behavior. Or some believe just the reverse. Behave your way into new thinking. It's controversial. Now this is just one reason I drank. I've drank for every reason positive & negative described (I think). As I've said before I believe for myself this is a physical, emotional, mental & spiritual disease ~ problem. Its by far less work, far less damaging to to my whole self to remain AF. For myself it has to be true, deep ~ self honesty & maintaining it. As the Fecker likes to lie & tell me I don't have the disease of Alcoholism, which for myself encompasses a bunch of fecked up thinking that comes with it! I have to hang out with other alkies, problem drinkers to remind myself that I'm not cured & in remission. Maintenance prevention, least I forget. Especially after the big physical symptoms have subsided. It's mind boggling sometimes. Sometimes it sucks cause its every where, but it's going to get easier. My mind has more clarity, most the time now. I think its ebb & flow. I just have to have this stuff repeated like you've said Kradle. I tend to read too much, info & then forget. I know it's normal at this stage in my recovery to be a bit obsessed with recovery things too. Which is a good thing. Better than what I was doing before.

Kradle, you have a good solid plan together. You are exercising, eating healthy, seeking counseling, gratitude verses deprivation mind set, you have a good support system too, for the most part. Work on the other areas you need to & be patient with the brain re-wiring. PAWS Just be patient with you, practice self love & nurturing you! We woman tend to give, esp us Moms to everyone else 1st. Take time for you. You may just be teaching your twins a valuable lesson. Make sure you always follow up with your Dr on your med checks. Work on your triggers. You, I & likely others may have some of the same triggers ~ obstacles to overcome, people, places & things. I will share here & you most likely will see me writing more about this is it's a biggie for myself. This is borrowed from some wise old friends who are 12 steppers. My peace & serenity are proportioned to accepting people, places & things exactly as they are. It's up to me to change myself, not them. Knowing what I can, change about myself, the wisdom to know the difference.

You are doing really well Kradle! Great thread! :l

[LillyE]

GOING OUT BUT COMING BACK IN

Terrific post Wildflowers!

Man, I'm so grateful to you for starting this thread Kradle. This is exactly what I need to read right now. I'm on Day 53 today and I know I need to be careful as I've had slippery thinking of late. This all really helps remind me of what would really lie ahead and why it just isn't worth it and I'll just be filled with regret.

And re the rock bottom Kradle, I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I guess you could call mine a 'high bottom' but as someone else pointed out 'what the hell is THAT all about' anyway? What, we haven't had enough misery with Al? We need just a little bit more and that'll do the trick? Why don't we save ourselves the trouble, hey? Keep reaping the rewards of being AF instead. They will just keep getting better. I am quite sure of that in my saner moments. I know you are too - really. Right?

:l

[patrice]

GOING OUT BUT COMING BACK IN

Yes an excellent post Wildflowers!! Thanks
Finally on to Day 1 after planning, reducing and today has come.
I'm going to reading a lot
Great thread
Patrice

[porqoui]

GOING OUT BUT COMING BACK IN

DITTO DITTO DITTO :thanks: Kradle...wish it was here last week...47 AF days and then POW! Haven't got time to post my story right now, but I will. Just wanted to say :thanks: and subscribe to this thread. PQ

[Kradle123]

GOING OUT BUT COMING BACK IN

I am so glad this is helping other people. :yay: I know it's helping me! I must be on my 4th bottle of Schweps tonic with lemons and limes in the last 2 days!!

Fanastic post WF as always. :l
The wiring is HUGE...
And Mama I knew you have been AF for a long time. No worries. :h

long day,
Love & hugs,
:l

[Sober Visitor]

GOING OUT BUT COMING BACK IN

Excellent post, WF!

Great thread, Kradle!

Re the rewiring, here are some things I did that helped me.

1. I never allowed myself to talk about how hard it is to get sober because focusing on "how hard it is" always made me feel more anxious and added an additional level of pressure and stress that I didn't need. Knowing myself as I do, when I put too much focus on how hard something is, I will convince myself that it?s too hard for me to do, and will eventually talk myself right out of doing it. That's what I did all the time during my drinking years, and it was a complete set-up for failure. This time I focused instead on how hard my life had become because of alcohol. Sobriety didn?t run my life into the ditch, nor would it. Alcohol did! It sucked the living soul right out of me and kept me coming back for more until it almost took my life.

2. I never allowed myself to say "I can't do this," which is often always followed by "because it's too hard." Saying "I can't do this" brings up such a negative energy for me internally whereas saying "I can do this" makes me feel empowered. Practice saying both those phrases and feel the shift of your energy go from negative (I can?t) to positive (I can). Our words do matter more than we know.

3. I never allowed myself to romanticize AL because that's not what's going to help me to get and stay sober. My goal is sobriety. It's not a temporary goal. It's how I want and need to live my life from now on, no ifs, ands or buts. Those people in the ads do not depict what my drinking life was like, and I'm not going to allow the money hungry advertisers to play with my head anymore. I know the truth about what my drinking life was like, and in case I forget, I've got a very large memory bank of my own to tap into for reminders. Talking about how wonderful alcohol is and how much I miss it, is only going to make me feel like I'm missing out on something wonderful which is not what's true for me and certainly not going to lead to lasting sobriety. On the flip side, talking about how bad alcohol is for me, how much I hate it, and how glad I am to have it out of my life will reinforce for me how bad it is, how much I hate it, and how glad I am to have it out of my life. I need to hate alcohol in order to love sobriety, otherwise I will remain conflicted.

4. I reminded myself every day how proud I am to be sober. I want to shout it to the world. I honestly do love being sober and wish I could find the words to make you believe that you can love it too, but I know it's something that everyone has to experience themselves before they believe it can be true for them too. The thing is, you're never going to get to experience how wonderful sobriety can be if you keep going back to drinking and giving away your power to alcohol. You also won't be able to experience how wonderful it is unless you start embracing it. Sobriety can be whatever you want it to be. If you awfulize it, it's probably going to wind up being pretty awful for you. I wanted to love sobriety, so I had to make that happen for myself. I started by "acting as if" and practiced acting as if every day until it came naturally. I practiced saying ?I don?t drink,? ?I love being sober,? and other key phrases until they became automatic responses for me. Practice makes perfect! It's an absolute necessity for retraining your brain to love your new sober life.

5. I also reminded myself that "it's a process, not an event." I had to keep my expectations in check. I didn't run my life into a ditch over night. It took me 30 years to accomplish that, so why on earth should I expect to be freed from this affliction overnight? Relatively speaking, is 90, 120, 180, 300 days really that bad, if that's how long it takes? To me, it's a miracle that we can recover so quickly, but the bottom line for me is that if I continue drinking, I will get progressively worse, and if I remain sober, I will get progressively better. I am so grateful that I finally chose the right path and allowed the process of recovery to happen.

6. Another no-no for me was to stop comparing my progress with others. I didn?t bounce back as quickly as some so it would have been very easy for me to fall victim to the comparison trap which is just another set-up for failure. I just kept telling myself, ?I am exactly where I need to be,? and ?this too shall pass.? It always does.

7. I also needed to stop projecting into the future about what I thought sobriety was going to be. I spent the last 30 years drinking, and knew nothing about what sobriety was really like, only what my alcoholic brain wanted to tell me to keep me drinking. We?ve got to really be proactive about challenging our thinking in the beginning and stop listening to the inner junkie?s lies. If it says black, we need to say white. Drinking alcohol is the antithesis of where I need to be.

I am so strong in my sobriety, I can't ever imagine wanting to go back to drinking again.

[Supercrew]

GOING OUT BUT COMING BACK IN

Great post Wildflowers! I think it touched on many of the things I have faced as well, and although the journey can be bumpy and even painful, try to enjoy it while you're moving forward. Easier to say than do I grant you, but when you realize that we all have the power to beat this thing, and we can rewire our brains to appreciate and even enjoy the experience. When you finally find a way, (and there is one), to recognize an obsessive thought/craving and beat it, and enjoy it all at the same time you are getting to where you want to be.

I equate it to sitting on the couch and having a real hunger pain, and instead of thinking about "damn I'm hungry", and going to the fridge, just sit and appreciate that now the body is hungry you are burning fat and losing weight. True happiness in the Buddist sense is being able to want for nothing. Basically if you don't want anything you are content. So being able to quiet our minds when it is obsessing about food or booze or a new TV, is truly a key to life long contentment. I told my wife that when she was asking about when I was going to buy her a new car, she obviously doesn't understand the Buddist philosophy...she said it just sounded like an excuse that a cheap husband would make up! So everyone doesn't follow my line of thinking, but I have made it work for me.

[mario]

GOING OUT BUT COMING BACK IN

Recovery looks like the individual person, and no two people are alike. One person, through sheer will power and determination may be able to break the bonds of alcoholism, while another needs a multitude of services. Having said that I was never ever serious about stopping drinking before this time, I always had all the right reasons to stop,family,financial,health,law but I also always had the right reasons to continue drinking, I always thought I was in control, not. It was only this time that I finally knew I had to quit,Cant really explain why this time was the one but there you have it,Everyone deep down know themselves. Alcoholism recovery is serious work and has to be taken as serious work.


It is true that we have to think about taking a drink before we actually take one,The thought always comes before the act, And yet the thoughts that come before taking a drink are often largely subconscious, people usually don't know consciously what made them do it,Therefore the common practice in a lot of alcohol forums/communities is to call these things slips,for instance,Some of us dream about being drunk when we are asleep,Even after several years of sobriety,during our drinking days,our subconscious minds have been thoroughly conditioned by our alcoholic ways of thinking and it is doubtful if they ever become entirely free of such thoughts during our lifetime,But when our conscious minds are fully conditioned against drinking we can stay sober & our subconscious minds do not bother us.

[Byrdlady]

GOING OUT BUT COMING BACK IN

Wow...this is an amazing thread! I was going to weigh in on the stages of grief, but that seems like small potatoes compared to the powerful words I've just read. All I know is that the more distance I put between me and AL, the better my world becomes.

Ok I can't help it.... as for the stages of grief, remember the first one is denial, then anger, then bargaining, depression and finally acceptance. Acceptance is where it's at! That bargaining has derailed a great many of us..."Maybe I've changed, or I have more self-awareness now"..." Since I had the AF time, my whole brain is re-wired now and I can just drink a few here and there and not think about it again"...and the one that nearly got me...."I don't owe these people on that site anything...I'm not like them....if I drink I'll just go off my own way". I'm here to tell you, I DO need these people here, and I feel like I DO owe them something. This place saved my marriage, my health and my life.

Thank you for the powerful posts everyone.... Byrdie

[paula]

GOING OUT BUT COMING BACK IN

This place certainly saved me, if I felt like drinking I logged on. My recovery has been a gradual realisation that I am not like most people, it has suddenly dawned on me that my problem is like an allergy that if I succumb to alcohol I will surely die. I tell myself one sip will be fatal. For years I tried to convince myself that I could control it, but I couldn't, it took control of me. I feel at peace with myself at last, since I decided to give up drink.

[LillyE]

GOING OUT BUT COMING BACK IN

*bump*

[Kradle123]

GOING OUT BUT COMING BACK IN

Lilly I'm so embarrassed but what does 'bump' mean? I see it now and then...

:l

[LillyE]

GOING OUT BUT COMING BACK IN

Don't be embarrassed Kradle - it took me awhile to work out what it meant! It's just a way of 'bumping' something up in the forum threads. Meaning, threads with recent comments appear higher up in the forum threads list. This was now buried on page 2 since there were no recent posts and I wanted to revisit it and keep it alive so others would see it, so I just posted 'bump' to do that.

Does that make sense? Not sure that was the most clear explanation!