Is anyone having luck with moderation?

[LibraryGirl]

Is anyone having luck with moderation?

bicyclesurfer;1369525 wrote: 1st! Librarygirl, I apologize again for suggesting that "true modders don't need help" What I meant was that people who have no problem with alcohol, (or don't see a problem) they don't usually get online and start searching for MWO or any other place for help, because they don't see a problem. Who reads diet books if you don't have a weight problem?
bikesurfer, it seems like I'm just saying the same things over and over, but I will say it again just to make it abundantly clear. I agree with you 100% that people who do not have a problem with AL don't search for forums like this one. What is your point? Just because I answer a question of the o.p.'s about "whether anyone has had success moderating" with yes, I moderate, means what exactly to you?

Now Im not going to argue with you about whether or not you have a problem with AL or not, you will learn one way or the other

I am here because I DO have a problem with AL. I did learn one way (or another), which is why I came here. Have you been drinking? Just kidding.

[Nelz]

Is anyone having luck with moderation?

LibraryGirl;1369527 wrote: I think the reason these kind of threads (about Moderation) get out of hand is because when anyone who moderates even posts anything at all, others chime in without being asked or even engaged. It's the superiority thing that is so unbecoming, and the fact that the minority is forced to defend themselves. Maybe someone should post (another?) thread entitled "Wages of Sin and The Pitfalls of Moderating". Then many of these posts would be truly relevant.

Oh, beeeeeleeeeve me, I wish like hell I could moderate.....I still get cravings for my old best friend Jack, and Miller........we had some gooooooood times.

When I see people "enjoying" AL I still sometimes wonder why I cant just pour a shot and enjoy it, without needing to have more until I pass out. I am not here to judge anyone, ever, not my thing.

I have chosen ABS, and the OP wants to try Moderating, more power to them if you ask me. Ive just seen too many on here think they have won the battle and try moding, only to slip back to where they were.

I do envy those who were wired in such a way as to Moderate..........now, we all need a big ol group hug!! :H

Everyone has a right to express opinions......especially on an opinion driven board such as this

[FreeFly]

Is anyone having luck with moderation?

My goal is peace of mind. I’m discovering for myself whether or not that can include any alcohol. It will be a year in October since I found MWO and I’m still figuring it out. There’s no doubt about it however, that AF times are most definitely the most peaceful for me (of course that can be different for others). When I’m in that place it doesn’t matter what anyone says or does, nothing can shake me from my serenity. I don’t have to fight my corner, justify myself or coerce anyone into thinking as I do. Please note I’m not suggesting that anyone else out there is doing any of those things, I’m speaking purely from personal experience.

For me, when I try to moderate, and god knows, I’d love to, my peace of mind is wobbled. I was thinking the other day about when I first found alcohol and it was a revelation in a way. I wasn’t introduced to it in a civilised way, it was for self medicating purposes – life was sh***. Didn’t know it at the time but upon reflection absolutely (well I did know life was sh*** but blind to what I was doing to myself). So I guess it’s never been a healthy pastime for me.

I guess what I’m trying to say is if it isn’t a problem, why get so het up about it? It doesn’t matter what anyone else is thinking or doing. If it works for you (them), great – you’re one of the lucky ones. If we truly have peace of mind we don’t need to justify it IMHO.

[199days]

Is anyone having luck with moderation?

Sorry if I came across a bit opinionated and harsh.

I was posting on a more personal viewpoint than what others are doing or may think.

Moderating is good only if you don't know your moderating, if you have to try and moderate then drinking becomes an obsession and takes over ones thoughts and lives, all for what ? To pour a hard Poisen down your throat. Trying quitting altogether forever, liberate yourself and be truly free.

Good luck to you all whatever you do.

[Struggles 106]

Is anyone having luck with moderation?

Good point 199 DAYS!

I like that-" Moderating is good only if you don't know you're moderating."

That makes sense to me, but maybe just because I'm a garden variety drunk-nothing more and nothing less.

If you are simply a non-alcoholic drinker then your consumption is not dictated by focused concentrated effort, but by what you FEEL like drinking. As an example-the person who says "No thanks, I don't want any more; I'm starting to feel it."

HAHAHA-to someone like me that is the entire point, and I think that is the difference

[bicyclesurfer]

Is anyone having luck with moderation?

Librarygirl, I understand you now.
Thank you for being kind about the whole thing.
I just want to help.
I guess I don't understand moderating, but that wasn't your question.
I have found that freedom is so much better.
Ive learned that EVERYTHING that AL claims to do for you, even if moderate, is really not true, and that you can do everything it claims MUCH better without it.
So now Im free.
I dont even count days cause why? Im not in recovery, Im free.
When folks are let out of prison they don't count the days, they think about other things!
So why am I here on MWO?
Because I used to be in your shoes, and Others on this Blog helped me, and I want to help others, if I can.

Peace and Love, Sincerely, Bike Surfer

[LibraryGirl]

Is anyone having luck with moderation?

Trust me you were never in my shoes. I'm glad you are free from what you were in though, and I wish you all the best bikesurfer. Thank you for being so kind about everything too!

[SaguaroSon]

Is anyone having luck with moderation?

If you want to moderate, I wish you luck. I actually believe that if you catch your tendency towards problem drinking early enough, you probably could back off and train yourself to moderate. But I also think that it's very, very, VERY difficult to catch yourself that early. By my estimate, I would have had to have caught myself about three or four years into my drinking "career." (aka by age 17-18)

I didn't. And I know that all my later attempts at moderation just led to more misery and suffering. That's just my own personal thoughts and experience. YMMV.

[SaguaroSon]

Is anyone having luck with moderation?

LibraryGirl,

I read only a few posts, then responded, then read the most recent ones. Now I want to add that if moderation is working for you, KEEP WORKING IT! I'm not trashing moderation for anyone it works for. I guess I'd just say that it is a much harder road for problem drinkers than being AF. That's my opinion, but that's all I've got.

I think we're all here because we dislike the rigid dogma of other methods. I don't want to come off like I'm trashing anyone's path out of the depths. So if that's what has worked for you, go for it. But in my own personal experience, attempting moderation was a mirage that kept me in a mire of misery and suffering for many more years than I needed to be. So, I would say to the run-of-the-mill alkie: moderation doesn't work for most, so if you're fairly far along on your drinking career, just go for AF, even if it's through moderation first, because that's probably what's going to get you to joy, health and freedom.

SaguaroSon

[Kradle123]

Is anyone having luck with moderation?

I'm sorry. I promised myself I wouldn't say anything but it seems to me that Whever The topic of MODERATION comes up everything goes to hell in a hand basket.

Isn't there a MODERATION THREAD WELL ESTABLISHED for heavens sake.. Just point whatever person asks about it there and let them talk amongst themselves ...

Thanks to Nelz here's how you link:

To put a link in text:

Hightlight all the letters in the address bar at the top of the page(it will start out Treatment for Alcoholism | Help for Alcoholism | Medication for Alcoholism | Alcohol Treatment Program | How to Stop Drinking - My Way Out..............
Hold down the CTRL button and push the letter C, you have now copied the link.
Now, put your cursor on the page of the document, or reply where you want it to be.
Then hold down the CTRL button and push the letter V, and you link will show up
Ill be happy to answer any questions you have
Here's an example
https://www.mywayout.org/community/pr...o=newpm&u=1722

[Cashregister]

Is anyone having luck with moderation?

bicyclesurfer;1369525 wrote: 1st! Librarygirl, I apologize again for suggesting that "true modders don't need help" What I meant was that people who have no problem with alcohol, (or don't see a problem) they don't usually get online and start searching for MWO or any other place for help, because they don't see a problem. Who reads diet books if you don't have a weight problem?
Now Im not going to argue with you about whether or not you have a problem with AL or not, you will learn one way or the other, but Im with you that you are more than welcome here to figure your own thing out.
I do agree with Byrdlady, Flyaway, Pixie and 199days, SO MANY of us have suffered SO MUCH, we love you and don't want to see you or anyone else go thru it. Thats all.

and
Hate to say this but here goes: Cashregister, You will get WAY more help on this forum than most doctors or family members can or will give you. Uninformed? You bet!
No need to take offense.
No sure what the Ancient Greeks thing proves? If you think THEY had some sort of wisdom, again thats very misinformed, but maybe you meant something else.
Many come here to MWO (myself included) on various levels of WHAT ALCOHOL HAS DONE TO THEM!
Stick around , you will learn something! I promise!
Everyone has an opinion, don't be so sensitive!
Have you been drinking? (just kiddin)

Bike surfer

Nice,very nice. I would never get more support here than from my family. You know nothing about me, you base your presumptions on the fact that I came to this site, you have no idea the health issues I struggle with that far eclipse any drinking I could do, and yet you judge me.
The ancient Greek reference was there because it was said that people have been drinking for hundreds of years, it was a correction of sorts. Sorry it was too obscure for you.
My adoptive mother is a full on alcoholic, I've felt the pain and I am not like her. I can moderate well. I get to the point where I'm not even conscious of AL, I certainly don't obsess like some.
Nearly 30 days AF at moment but stopped counting, just getting through a crisis my way.
I get sensitive about hypocrisy for sure. This whole thread sums up this place, you can do what you want BUT you're basically wrong because I tried it and it didnt work. As my husband so succinctly summed up the majority of this site : haha alcoholic fundamentalists, leave them the hell alone! Just came back to sort out the Greek thing - the rest is just my opinion which will now be shot own again based on the fact you really know nothing about me...

[drinkingal]

Is anyone having luck with moderation?

I think one of the problems with these type of threads is that afers generalise and say it doesn't work based on the same things about modding that clearly also apply to afing. So it does come across as a hypocracy.

e.g."Moderating is good only if you don't know your moderating, if you have to try and moderate then drinking becomes an obsession and takes over ones thoughts and lives"

why is this true? does that mean that afing is only good if you never have to work at it or never get tempted? where is the difference? Afing and modding take work, the approach is different but similar in many ways. Just like if you don't work at staying sober, you'll likely relapse, if you don't consciously work at modding then it's likely to fail too.

The other thing is that so many people say "I tried modding and it doesn't work" but I think many people fail to acknowledge that the time they spent trying to mod taught them some things (and maybe what it taught them was, I simply can't drink, ever). So it shouldn't be seen as a failure, it's just the outcome was different to what the person expected in their journey but it wasn't a waste if it helped them decide "this is not for me, I need to be 100% sober" and it's not a waste if they can make it work either.

The af-ers don't have to put up with these piles ons where a bunch of modders say "going af doesn't work! I tried it and I just kept relapsing!" so there needs to be a bit of mutual understanding and respect, we are all different, we aren't all alcoholics, and only we personally know who we are and why we drink and what approach best fits our personalities at this moment in time, and the judging should stop.

[patrice]

Is anyone having luck with moderation?

Hi everyone,
Apart from the odd barbed comments, I'm finding this thread interesting and informative and I think it's healthy to have this kind of discussion on Af or moderation.
All of the experiences and opinions I have read so far are all individual and intelligent and are helping me to think about myself within the whole spectrum of Alcohol use and abuse.
Thanks to you all!!!!!
Patrice

[drinkingal]

Is anyone having luck with moderation?

Molly I just want to comment on a few things in your post

mollyka;1369766 wrote: What's screaming at me is that we are not comparing like with like. It's not really an AF v Moderation argument imo - it is more a 'what stage are we at in our problem drinking/alcoholism'.
That hasn't been what I have seen at the modders board, there are some long time heavy daily drinkers there who now moderate very successfully, well within health guidelines so the assumption that you have to be a moderate drinker to be a moderate drinker isn't really true.

mollyka;1369766 wrote: I'm very glad I attempted to moderate because now I know - ABOUT ME - only me, nobody else.
I also think that many AF'rs - including me - can come across as very evangelical about all this - because (due to our own experiences) we can see the potential pitfalls and disasters facing a problem drinker/alcoholic attempting the mod. route and just want other's to avoid them.
Like I said above, there are modders who were problem drinkers/alcohol abusers, now doing very well so you're still assuming that problem drinkers can't change. I personally believe some people are true alcoholics but I also feel that many people label themselves wrongly. I feel I've done that myself, because I think we all come to a point where we ask ourselves "why do I do this?" and when we don't know the answer, the obvious go to response is " I must be an alcoholic" but I don't think this is true for many people who have labeled themselves that way. That may be ok for some, but other people do better when they can truly make sense of things. As you pointed out too, sometimes we really need to learn from our own mistakes and no one can truly save us from ourselves for any length of time.


mollyka;1369766 wrote: I also re-iterate my point - particularly to newcomers reading this thread - about the difference between true modding and harm-reduction - just what I said in a previous post - doesn't mean harm-reduction is wrong - it's just not a solution long-term - again imo.

As far as I know, I may be the only one who's mentioned I practice harm reduction here at the forums, so when I see comments like "it's just a way to keep drinking excessively and justify it by saying "but at least I don't drink as much as I used to", or when a poster threw it back in my face how much I was still drinking (after seeking out this info in the modders board), it's hard not to feel maligned and misunderstood, because the assumption was what I was doing was the end game, but it was merely where I was in time. Harm reduction has been a very interesting process for me and it has taught me a great deal about why I drink and that was something I didn't understand. It's also taught me how to switch off my drinking and do a few af days each week. But it's never been static, as it helped me move forward continuously. At the moment I'm taking a break from alcohol (helped by my new skills and knowledge, and the confidence those things gave me.) It's not about counting days or racking up time, it's about what I need to learn. Just like you have probably needed to learn and understand your own drinking to get where you are, I've just taken a different path to where I'm heading, and I'm not in denial or deluding myself about anything as some people seem to view harm reduction.
mollyka;1369766 wrote: I think a good discussion is healthy and educational, however - every single thing I've said is purely MY experience and MY opinion - about me - so I cannot understand why anyone would be angry with me or anyone else on here relating their own experiences
Molly

Because no one ever comes here and starts a thread titled "does giving up alcohol really work?" followed by a bunch of people saying "I tried it and it didn't work! I keep falling off the wagon, don't waste your time!" so the af-ers don't have to justify their approach like modders seem to have to once the pile on starts. People wouldn't dare post those type of comments at the forums, it would turn into war, but for some reason it's ok to dismiss the modders and their approach. What works for one person may be a wonderful success for someone else, so we should never assume that our experience with an approach is going to be the same for someone else, and that's why people should keep an open mind whether it's harm reduction, modding, medication or whatever.

[drinkingal]

Is anyone having luck with moderation?

mollyka;1369816 wrote:
Oh - and I wasn't referring to you or anyone in particular about the harm-reduction thingy - didn't even know that you had described yourself as practising that -- I have been reading a bit about it - that's all

no problem molly, yes it would be boring if we all had the same opinion! oh and sorry if you thought I was directing the harm reduction comments at you, I wasn't, these were just some of the things that I've encountered on that topic at the boards, but I didn't word things well so it may have looked like I was saying you said those things