Half a bottle of wine a night, 15 years off your life

[windy]

Half a bottle of wine a night, 15 years off your life

Wow.... wish I would've said that! Great words of wisdom DG... We really need your voice of reason here! I am what you would call a half bottle kind of drinker; not really every day though. I struggle with accepting that as an acceptable limit, so this information is very useful in creating and sticking to long term goals ... The all or nothing approach does not work for everyone and has not worked for me. Still trying to perfect my recipe though and just be happy with the process on a daily basis. I also think harm reduction is a useful term and process towards healing and beginning to feel better about the journey of self awareness.

Great topic Marshy....on an I pad so please forgive my shortness (figuratively).

[LibraryGirl]

Half a bottle of wine a night, 15 years off your life

I agree with some others that 1/2 bottle is better than 2 or more bottles a night, as some here say they regularly consumed. However, as dg said, no one thinks that is moderating. I find that having 4 or 5 AF days a week makes my 3-4 glasses of wine one or two days a week less of a problem. In fact, it is not a problem (for me). Others may strongly disagree, but I am doing this my way and am learning a lot in the process.

LG

[Kaslo]

Half a bottle of wine a night, 15 years off your life

Its good to see people here discussing this. I think its really important to recognize that when new people come here looking for answers as to how to stop drinking, that they are hugely susceptable to suggestions they can be moderate drinkers, when in all likelihood they will be like most of us, which is back hurting ourselves again after what ever length of abstinence.

That idea that it was only half a bottle kept me on the road to ruin for years. I guess the chance for self deception is huge in us, myself included.

It wasnt just the support and friendship on this site that prevented me from relapsing, it was the cold hard light of day that was shed on my self delusion, (in a kind way, mostly). So its hard to make that balance between being a biatch, and being a help to people who are really struggling.

The struggle between people like you LG and other moderate drinkers, and those of us who have reasonably successfully gotten out of drinking too much for how ever long is unfortunate, but its not the end of the world. I totally respect anyones right to drink, but on a site that helps people quit, I wish the suggestion that some of us can learn to moderate be held in check, because its very easy to fail, especially in the first year.

And the consequences, as Marshys post points out are truly dire. Doggy girl, there is a huge amount of evidence in the US and Canada in the human health and toxicology literature that what Marshy has posted absolutely holds true. Its true for the planet, as far as my reading shows.

I told myself that 2 glasses of wine a night was NOT a problem. I TOLD myself that. As an alcoholic I should have known I was lying to myself. I didnt see that until I watched someone die from this disease.

I would like things to be more civil on here, and thats why I havent posted. I was challenged by LG, who wanted to know if my arthritis wasnt caused by my weight. Like a lot of alcoholics, my arthritis was caused by several factors including alcohol over consumption, weight, genetics, past injuries, and lack of exercise. Not in that order. People dont usually die of arthritis, but they do put a huge strain on human health and modern economies, along with all the other conditions related to over consumption of AL.

Its so easy to end up with a half bottle a day habit, I think too easy, and therefore we have to be conservative. Supportive of each other, but also realistic.

kas

[Marshy]

Half a bottle of wine a night, 15 years off your life

Turnagain;1391741 wrote: Marshy - did you plant a bug in my house?

My spies are everywhere :undercover:

[Doggygirl]

Half a bottle of wine a night, 15 years off your life

Kaslo;1391894 wrote: It wasnt just the support and friendship on this site that prevented me from relapsing, it was the cold hard light of day that was shed on my self delusion, (in a kind way, mostly). So its hard to make that balance between being a biatch, and being a help to people who are really struggling.

The struggle between people like you LG and other moderate drinkers, and those of us who have reasonably successfully gotten out of drinking too much for how ever long is unfortunate, but its not the end of the world. I totally respect anyones right to drink, but on a site that helps people quit, I wish the suggestion that some of us can learn to moderate be held in check, because its very easy to fail, especially in the first year.

Hi kas. Trouble is, MWO is not an abstinence only based site. Look at the names of the sections on the forum. They reflect what's in the book and I presume, what discussion RJ has seen fit to facilitate. This includes both abstinence and moderation. If a person is not ready to stop drinking completely - but wants to try cutting back with the help and support of others, what's the problem with that? I might have actually come to realize much sooner in life that I could NOT moderate successfully if I was part of a support group who 1) helped me see what moderate drinking is and 2) helped me see wether or not I was able to achieve that. People beating me over the head with abstinence lectures didn't get me to stop drinking.

From what I have seen, being a biatch isn't usually helpful.

DG

[Kaslo]

Half a bottle of wine a night, 15 years off your life

Yes you are right. MWO does have room for both kinds of people on here. Re being a biatch, I think if you look at threads attributable to individuals here, some of them take a somewhat feindish glee in starting trouble. They ask leading questions. They post arguments to start people up on purpose. I hope we can all get past that, but to be honest with you, I have asked the question "what are you thinking" when a member is a bit disengenious about falling off the wagon or fooling themselves into thinking its not their responsibility. There is a big difference between reality checks for the recuperating alkie, and people just being mean about stuff.

I dont think I was being a biatch here, I was trying to point out that some folks are really fragile when they first start posting, and recruiting them into moderation is possibly dangerous for them. I think others have pointed this out as well.

Kas

[Doggygirl]

Half a bottle of wine a night, 15 years off your life

Kaslo;1391894 wrote: Its good to see people here discussing this. I think its really important to recognize that when new people come here looking for answers as to how to stop drinking, that they are hugely susceptable to suggestions they can be moderate drinkers, when in all likelihood they will be like most of us, which is back hurting ourselves again after what ever length of abstinence.

That idea that it was only half a bottle kept me on the road to ruin for years. I guess the chance for self deception is huge in us, myself included.

It wasnt just the support and friendship on this site that prevented me from relapsing, it was the cold hard light of day that was shed on my self delusion, (in a kind way, mostly). So its hard to make that balance between being a biatch, and being a help to people who are really struggling. The struggle between people like you LG and other moderate drinkers, and those of us who have reasonably successfully gotten out of drinking too much for how ever long is unfortunate, but its not the end of the world. I totally respect anyones right to drink, but on a site that helps people quit, I wish the suggestion that some of us can learn to moderate be held in check, because its very easy to fail, especially in the first year.

And the consequences, as Marshys post points out are truly dire. Doggy girl, there is a huge amount of evidence in the US and Canada in the human health and toxicology literature that what Marshy has posted absolutely holds true. Its true for the planet, as far as my reading shows.

I told myself that 2 glasses of wine a night was NOT a problem. I TOLD myself that. As an alcoholic I should have known I was lying to myself. I didnt see that until I watched someone die from this disease.

I would like things to be more civil on here, and thats why I havent posted. I was challenged by LG, who wanted to know if my arthritis wasnt caused by my weight. Like a lot of alcoholics, my arthritis was caused by several factors including alcohol over consumption, weight, genetics, past injuries, and lack of exercise. Not in that order. People dont usually die of arthritis, but they do put a huge strain on human health and modern economies, along with all the other conditions related to over consumption of AL.

Its so easy to end up with a half bottle a day habit, I think too easy, and therefore we have to be conservative. Supportive of each other, but also realistic.

kas

I hope it's clear that I did not say you were being a biatch in your post. I was simply reponding to the bolded part of your original post. And my point was that being a biatch is rarely if ever helpful from my experience.

DG

[Eve11]

Half a bottle of wine a night, 15 years off your life

I am thinking the best answer for everyone may be that when responding to a post (other than in the moderate board section or abstinence board section where it is clear what path people are following) others should not even be able to tell if one is moderating, abstaining, or doing research and doesn't have a drinking problem at all but is just reading all of these posts for a homework assignment :H. Also, any comments putting the other group down should be squashed as one never knows who is reading these posts when posted on "neutral" ground. That would eliminate the mod/vs/ab battles for sure.

So, without anyone knowing what road I follow (because this isn't a moderation site or an abstinence site) but a general discussion site, I would like to say that this was an educational and informative post that Marshy researched and shared. Doggygirl's answer was extremely informative regarding Motivational Interviewing. Studies do show a lot of people do not get help for addiction and it may well be that the all or nothing approach is usually the only one out there but if people had a choice and believed they maybe could try harm reduction first (drink less than they've been doing), then be encouraged to abstain for 30 days if medically cleared (no DTs wanted) and then contemplate from there what route to take, there may be more success with people receiving help.

From many of the studies I have looked at, after a 30 day abstinence period, many folks do not want to return back to a drinking lifestyle. They feel better without alcohol and find that they accomplish more with no hangovers or physical symptoms from alcohol (low energy, depression, etc.).

I agree with Doggygirl about Motivational Intervieiwng (MI). It has shown to be very effective for working with alcoholics and problem drinkers as well. It is a non- confrontational therapy that helps clients move through the process of change and as Doggygirl shared, there are stages of change which indicate a client's readiness. It doesn't seem to work well for clients in denial so they have to have reached a stage of readiness and willingness to change for this therapy to work. The goal of MI is to get the patient internally motivated and realize that their problem is from within. It recognizes that they (the client) are the ones who convey the need to change rather than the need to change being imposed from an authority figure (counselor, judge, etc) . I believe it's a very good therapy and someone really struggling to abstain and ready to abstain may want to consider seeing a counselor skilled in MI therapy.

Anyway, great post Marshy. Love it when people share info like this. Go here to read about stages of change: Stages Of Change and to this site for more information on Motivational Interviewing: http://www.motivationalinterview.org...4%20012911.pdf

:l
Eve11

[LibraryGirl]

Half a bottle of wine a night, 15 years off your life

Kaslo;1391894 wrote: I was challenged by LG, who wanted to know if my arthritis wasnt caused by my weight. Like a lot of alcoholics, my arthritis was caused by several factors including alcohol over consumption, weight, genetics, past injuries, and lack of exercise. Not in that order. People dont usually die of arthritis, but they do put a huge strain on human health and modern economies, along with all the other conditions related to over consumption of AL.

Its so easy to end up with a half bottle a day habit, I think too easy, and therefore we have to be conservative. Supportive of each other, but also realistic.

kas

Kaslo, I didn't "challenge" you about your arthritis or anything else. I'm sorry that you felt it was a challenge. In fact, I was asking about your edema, which I don't believe is the same thing as arthritis. I have had a problem with edema too and believe it was partly due to being overweight, which I am now working on. I'm sorry if you were confused about my question.

As I said in my post on this thread, I don't think 1/2 bottle of wine a night is moderation. Also, neither I nor anyone in the Mod Squad has ever to my knowledge recruited a single person to try moderation. I really don't understand why this keeps coming up. If you can show where it was done, then I'll be happy to retract. I hope we can all just respect each other here, as I've tried to say before. :truce:

[Kaslo]

Half a bottle of wine a night, 15 years off your life

LibraryGirl, I wasnt referring to your question about edema, in Tipplerettes thread, but a later seperate thread started by yourself, where I was quoted directly, but not named, and it wasnt exactly the most friendly discussion. I felt i was being quoted out of context. I read what was said about me, and I have to say it hurt. I didnt think I was being rude to you then, or now. But I got slagged. Not named but slagged. I dont think that was fair.

In fact I actually thought your edema problem was difficult to get a handle on from a tox perspective because it can be caused by so many different things. Unfortunately overconsumption of AL is one of the causes. If I was edemic and had a history of AL over use I would be very concerned, thats just my opinion as a tox professional.

And no I dont either think 1/2 bottle a nite is moderate. Its excessive. We agree on that, but thats not my point. I am concerned that when a new person on MWO is just starting to clue in to over consumption, they may not be exactly rational about it. In fact, pretty susceptable to any kind of persuasion that...hey its no big deal, I can handle it.

I believe the thread was something about Why you are here. But it doesnt matter now. I am real straight shooter, and I cant take some criticism, especially where its due. But I do wish like others that the conflicts and indirect slagging would stop. I am sure you will agree with me on THAT!

k

[LibraryGirl]

Half a bottle of wine a night, 15 years off your life

Kaslo, I'm not sure what you are talking about, but I'm sorry if you felt hurt by anything I have ever said in here. Also, I've told you that I had my edema checked out in the hospital, thoroughly, and also disclosed my AL intake. It was not ruled to caused by alcohol, and therefore I assumed excess weight. Anyway, Kaslo, I agree that no indirect slagging or direct slagging should take place on these forums. This is a place for learning and recovery.

[drinkingal]

Half a bottle of wine a night, 15 years off your life

Kaslo;1391916 wrote: I think if you look at threads attributable to individuals here, some of them take a somewhat feindish glee in starting trouble. They ask leading questions. They post arguments to start people up on purpose.

Hi Kaslo, I'm not sure if you're in part referring to Eve's post in the mod section "can you moderate" but just as far as that post, unfortunately it was really misconstrued. Eve told us she was writing the post for the modder board and included a link to a test where you can score your level of dependency, but it wasn't meant to be replied to, it was for information purposes at the mod board, and not meant to be a debate at all. I think unfortunately people from outside the mod board saw the title and thought it was meant to be a debate but the title was rhetorical, so it was a really unfortunate misunderstanding. My heart sank when people started replying to it and things got heated because the intention of her post was just to get people to take the test which also gave advice on whether abstaining or modding was realistic based on a score. anyway, just wanted to clear that up :l

[Kaslo]

Half a bottle of wine a night, 15 years off your life

No it wasnt that thread, DG, and please dont worry about it...

[BlondeAFAmbition]

Half a bottle of wine a night, 15 years off your life

This is a great article...geez, I was way over the 1/2 bottle a day by about a whole bottle. Makes me cringe to think of it but a good reminder of why we are trying to stay sober!