Chemistry Question?

[Citygirl]

Hello Everyone,

I haven?t been back here in a very long time, but I love this site and this group so I hope this is a good place to post this.

The brief history: drinking a bottle of wine every night, sometimes more, for over ten years. I never missed work, don?t have DUI?s, etc. Overall, I am what anyone would call a ?high achieving? person. But, I had a nightly drinking problem that got to the point where I couldn?t even DREAM of not having alcohol in my life ? totally dependent on drinking wine every night, never breaking the pattern ? only wine, every night 7 PM till bedtime, without fail. I knew it was bad and would eventually spoil my health completely, but I could not stop. Could not.

I hid it from everyone pretty well for many, many years. Until? drum roll? I got caught by the closest person in the world to me about 2 months ago ? the jig was up, as they say. On that day, he (very kindly) confronted me and, for whatever reason, that very day, I quit cold turkey for 2 solid months. I know. Unbelievable.

I had tried to quit with BAC but stopped because I couldn?t take the side effects. Then, tried NAL faithfully (I mean, FAITHFULLY) for a year and a half and had absolutely no change. Weird, I know. But it?s absolutely true. It just had no effect.

But - I quit cold turkey upon confrontation. I haven?t the slightest idea how on earth that was possible. I almost feel like the panic and utter terror I felt at my Dear One finding me out sort of shook me to my core and allowed me the ability to just stop. I don?t know?

Anyway, so I quit. I wasn?t a hangover type person, so I didn?t notice that I, for example, suddenly felt super fantastic and energetic. Life wasn?t different in any big way, other than the fact that I was not having wine every night and that I lost about ten pounds. I was a nighttime only drinker and I did/do miss that ?high? of getting that nightly buzz. (I am also not a great sleeper, so AL always helped me pass out, which I missed

But, I quit. I did have urges, for sure, but I was able to resist somehow. Again, I have no idea why or how.

I came back here to start reading posts again, getting inspiration and information, and to try to figure out what I was going to do long term. Could I quit permanently? Did I NEED to quit permanently? How long was I quitting for? I had no idea. I did read ?The Easy Way to Stop Drinking,? which was actually quite helpful.

However, last night, for the first time, I decided to have some wine with dinner. I thought, ?Well, it?s been two months. Let?s see what happens.? So I did. What happened was that I immediately became the EXACT person that I had been before. I didn?t just want a glass, I wanted a bottle. BUT, the difference was that, because I had been AF for two months, I was able to feel what was happening to me, consciously, rather than just drinking without thinking, as I had done for so many years.

What happened was it felt like my brain got a taste of the AL and then began sort of maniacally wanting to gulp down more and more. Like it couldn?t get enough. Everyone else at my house had some wine with dinner and then they were done. I, however, (sneakily, of course) couldn?t get enough. But, it honestly felt like a chemical reaction. Like there was a part of my brain that actually took over my body and it was like I was giving water to a person who had been dying of thirst. It really felt like a separate being was in charge. It felt like that ?person? needed this. It felt panicky.

For me, this was kind of a revelation because I had never been conscious of it before. I didn?t know what was driving my need. I don?t really know now, which is why I?m posting here to see if any of the very insightful and smart people here have any insight. Is it an endorphin rush that I?m responding to? Do I have a neurotransmitter deficiency? It seems completely chemistry-driven to me. I can't explain it any other way.

I had tried supplements but, just like with NAL, kudzu and l-glute did not seem to change anything for me. I have never taken anti-depressants, although I have been offered them by my regular MD ? quite unprovoked, I might add. I haven?t read ?Seven Weeks to Sobriety? yet, although I have seen many, many posts on what seems like an insightful book. I will get it to see if it helps answer my questions.

Maybe I DO need something for my hungry little brain. I don?t know?

After last night?s little ?experiment,? I am going to quit again for an open-ended amount of time. I didn?t like what happened to me last night. At all. But I am glad I experienced it as I did. It gave me a clarity that I?ve never had before.

Sorry this is so abominably long. Thank you for reading. If anyone feels like sharing any insights or thoughts, I would be so humbly grateful for any feedback.

Kind regards,
Citygirl

[bettygirl]

Chemistry Question?

there is a saying in aa (sorry if you don't like aa) that one is too many and 1,00 isn't enough.

the addictive mind is different from non-addictive brains, it's been proven. neurotransmitters and whatnot...i'm sure someone infinitely smarter than i will give you a link or something to read that shows it.

i know i can't have that first drink or i will be right back where i was at the end of my drinking "career"...i know because i've tested it a million times!

good on you for learnign and being aware of it, now it's up to you to decide what you want to do!

[Raven2012]

Chemistry Question?

Hi City Girl

I think Betty Girl has already given you some good insight. She's a whiz with health and wellness. I would try, in addition to the supplments that Roberta recommends the Topimax (avail via the River site) it has the nice property of promoting weight loss as well as reducing cravings. You've done this once before. For two months straight. Try it again with some new ammunition.

Give yourself another chance. You'll get it right this time. I once worked for a pharmaceutal company that taught me the reality of how people quit smoking. I don't know the statistics for drinking but for smoking, the average person tries SIX times before they successfully quit. So I'd imagine maybe drinking isn't much different. Give yourself a break. You tried, it didn't work this time. Try again with new tools. You will, eventually succeed you know. Best to you, Raven

[kuya]

Chemistry Question?

Hi City Girl,
What happened is the second alcohol hit your brain you activated the GABA receptors you have built up for alcohol with practiced drinking. They actually INCREASE when you abstain which is why people who fall off the wagon drink MORE.

Naltrexone, when used properly is taken before you drink and blocks the GABA receptors so you don't get the GABA hit. The learning part of your brain starts to dissociate alcohol with pleasure and thereby stops craving it. This takes time and once you are 'cured' you MUST take naltrexone before consuming alcohol (for life) or the addiction gets deeper.

This is why repeated falling off the wagon makes quitting harder each time.....it is called 'kindling'.

You have four choices, well really only three

1. keep drinking, lose your health, your relationships etc
2. Abstain for life
3. Use naltrexone PROPERLY and accept that you must use the drug for life
4. Try to moderate....... From the effect you report this may be impossible cos you have lost the self control switch.

I look at alcohol as a poison we are brainwashed into consuming and can see no point in any method that continues its consumption. Some want to be able to drink socially, I wish them luck.

Hope this helps and good luck whatever you decide

KY

[bettygirl]

Chemistry Question?

yay for smart folks!

[Byrdlady]

Chemistry Question?

bettygirl! I had to laugh! You got that right, Kuya is right up there with the smartest folks I know! Thank goodness they walk among us!
I just call it Addiction Head, Dick Head for short, but her explanation is a lot more socially acceptable. Byrdie

[bettygirl]

Chemistry Question?

:H

[Wildflowers]

Chemistry Question?

:welcome: Citygirl,


I to in the past have been able to quit for 60 days when confronted by loved ones, just to have the same thing happen like you did. Ask Mrs. Google about Nucleus Accumbens in your brain. It's part of the circuit that effects reward.

"The release of dopamine and serotonin in the nucleus accumbens lies at the root of active drug addiction. The pattern of neural firing that results from this surge of neurotransmitters is the ?high.? It is the chemical essence of what it means to be addicted. Part of the medial forebrain bundle (MFB), which mediates punishment and reward, the nucleus accumbens is the ultimate target for the dopamine released by the ingestion of cocaine, for example." Shown in MRI scans.

Just replace the word cocaine with alcohol, after all it's a drug. Addiction, that feel good part of it can be healthy, like marathon running. It's still wired to the same area of the brain. Why do some of us choose unhealthy things over healthier ones. Well, that's the million dollar ? Bad childhoods, peer pressure, self esteem & self concept issues, boredom, it's only beer & wine, denial, etc..... I think it can be quite individual, yet similar.

It's also thought that some of us may not metabolize alcohol as quickly in our livers as others. Leaving too much acetaldehyde in our brains & livers, causing uncontrollable cravings. Like many of us have after ingesting & then not being able to stop. The switch is in a permanent off position to begin with. Tho it's also imo that even without a genetic predisposition a person can cause brain damage & have self induced kindling effect on the brain.

NIAAA Publications

As Kuya mentioned GABA-A & GABA-B receptors can play a calming role in people who use alcohol to calm themselves, e.g anxiety. Then there's L-Glutamine, which I think plays a role in conversion of sugars. For some it's like trying to control energy levels. Our hormones, age, not eating right, exercise all play vital roles. Kicking the poison out is #1 imo if it's damaging your health & happiness.

To discuss in depth emotional, mental & chemical possibilities is all interesting. It's been done here before, but always a good topic imo.

I use to have a better grasp on all this, but didn't learn my lessons & continued on the wrong path. Eventually, I couldn't even drink the same quantities & was buzzing along just fine. Back to where I once started. Like climbing a Mt, then headed back down the other side. I'm very glad to be down in the valley by the river now, it's better here.

Good Luck To You On Your Journey Citygirl

[Supercrew]

Chemistry Question?

Hi Citygirl,
I did a similar thing when I first quit. I was put in a situation where I had to quit at least in my mind. I went cold turkey for 118 days. I then decided to experiment. I didn't have a craving anymore, but I went down and picked up 4 tallboys to see what would happen. Drank them in about 20 minutes, and I felt no effect. No buzz, no elation..nothing.

Two weeks later I grabbed 6 tallboys and drank one after another, and again no effect. Two weeks after that I went to a golf tournament, and I had 10 drinks over a 7 hour period on the golf course, I came home and even told my wife I had a couple and I can control myself!

The following week I had another golf outing, and the old Supercrew was back, I ended up going on a 3 week bender and landed me in the ER detoxing. That was Dec 20th 2 years ago. I haven't had a drink since....but the reason why I haven't had a drink is because I decided I never wanted to drink again. I take some supplements and Im not sure if they really do much for me, more of a placebo in my opinion. And I didn't want to try any real drugs because I didn't want to feel reliant on them as I did for alcohol for the last 5-6 years prior to quitting. I just matured and realized I didn't need alcohol in my life, and if I could quit drinking for a week or for a month or for 118 days, then I know I can quit forever.

I figured I had started drinking 27 years prior drinking 3 beers at 15, and at the time I was drinking an 18 pack of beer a day and a half bottle of vodka a night, But I started at zero, and I decided that I wanted to stay at zero from here on out. I started as a 1 day at a time person, but it was only a few months later that I really quit thinking about drinking all together. I quit focusing on alcohol and started focsuing on my happiness and being as healthy as I could. It finally clicked for me after trying to quit 100's of times over the past 10 years.

I wake up evry morning and thank myself for finally deciding that alcohol was not necessary in my life.And my wife and family thank me too. It's just a decision nothing more and nothing less, and it started with deciding that no matter what I would not drink today. I am less than a month away from 2 years, and they have been 2 of the best years of my life.

[Citygirl]

Chemistry Question?

Hello Everyone - thank you ever so much for your feedback. This is incredibly helpful. (Sorry, I know my questions have probably been talked about a lot, so I appreciate your indulgence). Kuya and Wildflowers, your replies are really terrific and, yes, "yay for smart folks!" See you all around here. Again, thanks a million!!

[Citygirl]

Chemistry Question?

Supercrew, out ships just crossed in the night, I think Thank you for that very kind and thoughtful post. Really amazing of you to share that. Until I was confronted, I never had the wherewithal to stop. I couldn't "willpower" myself through even one night of no drinking. It took that event to shake me up, I guess. I don't think I'm out of the woods by any means, but after my Saturday night stroll down memory lane, I decided to stop again, so I've been okay for today and yesterday. It definitely looks like I will need to stop permanently, so I will hang around here and find my way through to that place with all of this great support here. I know this will not be easy, but most things worth doing usually aren't. Huge thanks and sending warm thoughts to all of you here.

[Supercrew]

Chemistry Question?

Thanks Citygirl! One thing I have realized is I couldn't think about it as "quitting". I had to think of it in terms of "starting" a new sober, healthy life. Quitting anything sucks. As far as the "chemistry" question, I did alot of research on my drinking problem trying to figure out why I felt the way I did about alcohol and how it affected my brain. I would recommend a book called "the Craving Brain", which helped me to understand the big picture about addiction. But when it was all said and done it comes down to finally convicing your subconscious mind not to want to drink. The only way you can accomplish this is by abstaining and not listening to that little voice for an extended period of time, to the point where it becomes second nature. Habits/addictions don't just start and stop, there is a progression that takes time. Basically you are retraining your brain to think differently. There were many nights where I felt like I didn't have an off switch, and I couldn't get enough booze in me fast enough. The key is to recognize that feeling and to realize it is just a feeling that will pass if you let it.

After 2 years of research and retraining it is very apparent to me that living in the moment and making the right conscious decision when your subconscious is telling you something else is the key to beating this thing naturally. If you learned to drink a bottle of wine every night, you can also unlearn that habit. But it means you have to take daily action to go against what the little voice is telling you...and to try to make it the most positive experience you possibly can.