what finally made your quit stick?

[Byrdlady]

This thread kinda went haywire for a minute, Reggie did make a point that I've wondered about myself, if taking a break from here would help me not be so focused on not drinking all the time, Rational Recovery basically tells you that once you've made up your mind to NOT drink,being in a "program" is counterproductive, just something that I've pondered

Pauly,
As you may know, I tried everything under the sun to try and 'get over' my obsession with AL. I did leave MWO for periods of time and when I did that it was i
as if I was giving myself a break from TRYING. It was a free pass (no matter what wrapper I put it in, I was not in a program and not accountable to anyone, therefore I was not successful). Being with like-minded people is the only thing that worked for me. We are swimming upstream on this Af journey so its important that we stick together (I think). At least that is how it worked for me. Once I realized that ONE MORE DRINK had too high a price, I was able to quit and stay quit. As Matt M says, "There is 100% chance I cant do this alone." That was certainly the case for me. B

[Mick]

was going to ...but hey just cant keep my nose out...some really interesting points throughout all the posts...firstly I see here not as a programme...but a place where you can create a programme or a strategy for yourself...that may mean drugs meditation ,classes ,or general support from those here ...this is all based on what works for those individuals...whatever it was ..so you tailor it to suit yourself ..and discard what doesnt work...This is under the assumption that you have done the soul searching and do want to quit..that in itself is the main factor that driving force has got to be what it says ..the driver..lets not kid ourselves each and every single one could have caved in along the road at some point..that is where your programme /strategy comes into play..You will not know it works until you have tested it...and you wont test it if you give in every time you want a beer...
For me ,I would like to think that I will never drink again,but again ,who know what is round the corner..My intention is not to...and have the resolve to adhere to that plus friends who I have met on this site..I am definitely not too proud to ask for help before I cracked a bottle...I certainly dont want to or intend do it ..... I looked at the planned drinking option...on paper it looks good ...but for me i can honestly say I would lie and cheat like fk...Imagine half way down a bottle of Scotch and your allotted time was ending ...jeez the clocks would be turned back ,Id be borrowing next months days all sorts!!
For some people not many ,a straight lift "off the shelf"works ,but in the main you have to put it together and try the options..that is why I think the forums are important not only as a social chit chat ,but also to get ideas on who did what why and result ..then fit it into your way of life...

[NoSugar]

Kuya, I agree that a planned period of drinking would be better than the uncontrolled, soul-destroying binges of varying intakes and lengths after a period of abstinence that many people experience. I've read about people who do just that and in fact, have a distant relative who considers himself an alcoholic but I'm told allows himself to drink (excessively) 3 times per year. I wonder if people who are able to do that without all the problems Mick laid out (which I think I also would experience given my 'bargaining' behavior when I was trying to control/reduce/moderate my drinking) do not need a support group so it's a perspective we rarely hear.

My guess is that most people who join a support group have tried to control their drinking using elaborate strategies like I did - e.g. buy 2 packages (8 bottles) of the little single-serving sizes of wine for the week. Swear that I will drink only 1 per day and celebrate with 2 on Sunday.... but be back at the store 2 days later because I drank 4 each night. I do know myself - I cannot drink in a controlled manner. I've done the experiment and failed.

But - I am big on self-experimentation for a person to figure out what works for them and am concerned about people who run the same experiments over and over and over without changing any variables. If a person has never tried to drink x amount x often (including on very rare occasions), it is probably worth a try but as I said, I suspect most people here have run that study. So why not try something else?

I was thinking last night about all of the techniques I've explored over the last 3+ years in an effort to become contentedly sober. It was mentioned that MWO no longer offers options but the fact is, I was exposed to all of these ideas in various MWO threads:

Meditation
Mindfulness
Medications
Moderation
Hypnotherapy
Gratitude practice
Service to others
Self-rewards
3 Principles
High-intensity exercise
Low-intensity exercise
Yoga
Use sugar to stop cravings
Avoid sugar to avoid cravings
Amino acid therapy, including L-glutatamine
Vitamin/mineral supplementation
Tracking days
Not tracking days
Quit a day at a time
Commit to quit forever

I tried them all - and kept what worked. But my point is, if what you're doing isn't leading you to your goal, whatever that is, do something else. Repeating the same experiment over and over until there is an epic fail (which is when too many of the subjects die during the trial) makes no sense and is dangerous. I think we sometimes forget what serious business this is -- addictions can kill and there is no way to predict the outcome of any particular addictive drinking episode.

MWO has a lot to offer and there are options provided - use or not of medications, moderation, abstinence - with all sorts of supportive practices discussed in various threads. If someone has successfully used a different approach, I hope they share it. It might be just what a person who is struggling needs to hear.

[Spiritfree]

This is like taking dieting advice from a 600 pound man. Those that can, do. Those that can't, criticize. B

***Truism***

[Spiritfree]

No it's not romantic, but what you list is far more romantic than what I've been through. I counted up the number of times I've been committed to a detox facility or a psychiatric hospital and it is NINE times, most of them involuntarily. And while I never received a DUI (I can't believe I never did, now that I'm sober), I've been to jail twice for other alcohol related antics. That was my drinking/using world.

I perceive this as someone trying to be honest about how horrid our COMMON brain disorder can be and the relative consequences thereof. I believe that this person is sharing his experience in order to try and help others while trying to help himself at the same time.

--sf--

[Spiritfree]

Whoot, Pauly! Yes, you can!

What made mine stick was fully letting go. Admitting to myself that I HAD to quit. Giving in and accepting that fact, and then doing everything within my power to make sure that was true. And once I had done that, I had to take all of the help I could get.

You got this!
Pav

My final quit? Mine operates on a daily basis I and am grateful to have strung together nearly 3.5 years AF. No, not all my AF days have been in a row, but the majority of them have been. I view my alcohol free life based on the my desire to live a life doing many things I enjoy or that I am passionate about doing -that do not involve alcohol -realizing just how alcohol could and would destroy my brain's ability to enjoy and live the life that I have today.

Pav -At least for me, you make the single most important point of all that led to my eventual new and much improved life: Surrender. There was a particular day and specific time in day that I felt totally disconnected from the entire world, with no connection to anything spiritual, could only feel fear and loneliness beyond understanding, and then shortly (a few hours) thereafter, a life changing transformation occurred to and for me. Moments before this transformation occurred, I only remember saying this; "here I am, you know me, and whoever or whatever exists, I have no more tries left in me -I surrender. I am done, please help me if you or something exists."

From that day forward following my personal experience, my life transformed. No, that was not the last day that I ever touched alcohol again, but it was the first day that I realized and was given visions of how great life is and really can be without an chemically altered brain.

[paulywogg]

Spirit, if I add up all my AF time,I am indeed over two years sober but I don't think it workslike that,eeverything I've read(not here) says the days have to be in a row,I guess that's why I kick my own ass when I relapse,ifiI could drink here and there and be fine with it ,accepting of it,I would,if I could have a blow out drunken night here and there and feel comfortable with the decision I probably would but I can't accept drinking here and there for myself, my family doesn't care but I do and that's all that truly matters,thanks for the input, thanks to everyone's input

[Spiritfree]

If you are drunk then the explanation for your disdain for people who are achieving what seems to elude you can only be explained by jealousy or ignorance.
From what I've read on the other site, Endofmyaddiction.com doesnt seem to be the end of anybody's addiction, in fact, some members are using the drug counter to how it was intended. Even the founder isnt sober more than a few days, if that.
I must agree with aihfl, go over to the more wonderful site and leave us alone, we are doing just fine without your disruptive critiques. I suppse it depends, however, on what your goals are. If you want to get sober the old fashioned way (quit drinking) then MWO is a great place to be. If you want to spend years criticising others for doing what you cant, then we wish you'd move on. You arent helping anyone, including yourself. You cant imagine what our opinion of you is. I feel sorry for you, because Ive been there. If you ever get to a place where you want help, by people who are walking the walk, come back and we can help. If youd rather live in denial and try and use a drug to help you not use another drug, the other place may be a better fit. We are all trying to get from Point A to Point B, the path we take to get there is the difference. You've been around a long time, too, Reggie, and it doesnt appear you are 'getting it'. Instead of berating others to make yourself feel better, why not get an addiction conselor and check yourself in. If your misery is presented in real life like it is on this forum, I feel very sorry for your family. Get some help and put an end to these embarrassing tirades. Get sober, no matter what it takes. Thats what we've done, and in spite of what you say, we are doing quite well. Get some help, you will be so glad you did.

Byrd -I can not think you enough for this post. Both you and Aihfi make very valid and important points- especially regarding the other site. Before just recently, I did not make the connections regarding the majority of posters on the so called new forum. Many/most on the new forum are actively drinking and are helping to enable each other -in kind ways, to continue doing so. It appears to be a baclofen oriented site with all of the same information that is available on this site.

The creator and leader of the site came to her idea to start her new site as a result of what she considered to be my "relentless trolling" -her words. She wanted to create a site where people would not suggest abstinence and other information that did not coincide with her thoughts and opinions. She also want to create a site where Baclofen is the primary way of becoming "indifferent" to alcohol. With all due respect, I applaud her for her efforts and work to create the new site. Furthermore, I believe she and a few of her friends have created a web based platform that could end up being beneficial to others.

With all of this said, I truly do wish that NE and her followers stick with and remain loyal to their new site and stop creating such negative, harmful turmoil on this forum.
The creator of the new site was asked to close her main thread on this site and this was her response:

"If I lock my thread, it means that only new threads get and stay on the first page. And guess who starts all the new threads these days? Imagine what a cluster that would like... It scares the hell out of me! Ibogaine... False information based on unreliable sources or internet anecdotes. Or personal attacks couched in pseudo-scientific marlarkey.
No, I don't think that I will close my thread now or ever. IT (MY THREAD) STILL GETS MORE HITS, HAS MORE MEMBERS, THAN ANYTHING REMOTELY SIMILAR."

Quite clearly, the leader of the new forum is not only concerned about keeping her new site free and clear of opposing views, but she is also concerned about making sure MWO members do not express their own opinions, thoughts, or information -especially when the information posted does not involve her or Baclofen.

New forum leader -It is my understanding that you feel like MWO will go to hell in a hand basket if you and your very close followers do not intercede? Would you folks please give it a try for thirty days and just see if MWO falls apart without your 'help'?

So please, to who all are interested, go to the new site become a part of their community; just please, stop posting your negativity on this forum.

[Spiritfree]

Spirit, if I add up all my AF time,I am indeed over two years sober but I don't think it workslike that,eeverything I've read(not here) says the days have to be in a row,I guess that's why I kick my own ass when I relapse,ifiI could drink here and there and be fine with it ,accepting of it,I would,if I could have a blow out drunken night here and there and feel comfortable with the decision I probably would but I can't accept drinking here and there for myself, my family doesn't care but I do and that's all that truly matters,thanks for the input, thanks to everyone's input

Hi ya Pauly -I just got so tired of kicking my own ass and belittling myself for drinking after days, weeks, or even months for drinking after my so called 'final quit' that I had to change the way I was perceiving my so called failures. Once that I started looking at my drinking (after) final quit commitments as positive learning experiences, my drinking life began to change. Of course we all know that the drinking can turn right back into mental/physical craving stages, I still had to start looking at my failures as ways to help me to continue to evolve and change. Once that I got a few alcohol free days back under my belt and started feeling good about myself, I knew that I had to start finding new, even crazy stupid things to participate -including being around other sober people.

[Spiritfree]

Kuya, I agree that a planned period of drinking would be better than the uncontrolled, soul-destroying binges of varying intakes and lengths after a period of abstinence that many people experience. I've read about people who do just that and in fact, have a distant relative who considers himself an alcoholic but I'm told allows himself to drink (excessively) 3 times per year. I wonder if people who are able to do that without all the problems Mick laid out (which I think I also would experience given my 'bargaining' behavior when I was trying to control/reduce/moderate my drinking) do not need a support group so it's a perspective we rarely hear.

My guess is that most people who join a support group have tried to control their drinking using elaborate strategies like I did - e.g. buy 2 packages (8 bottles) of the little single-serving sizes of wine for the week. Swear that I will drink only 1 per day and celebrate with 2 on Sunday.... but be back at the store 2 days later because I drank 4 each night. I do know myself - I cannot drink in a controlled manner. I've done the experiment and failed.

But - I am big on self-experimentation for a person to figure out what works for them and am concerned about people who run the same experiments over and over and over without changing any variables. If a person has never tried to drink x amount x often (including on very rare occasions), it is probably worth a try but as I said, I suspect most people here have run that study. So why not try something else?

I was thinking last night about all of the techniques I've explored over the last 3+ years in an effort to become contentedly sober. It was mentioned that MWO no longer offers options but the fact is, I was exposed to all of these ideas in various MWO threads:

Meditation
Mindfulness
Medications
Moderation
Hypnotherapy
Gratitude practice
Service to others
Self-rewards
3 Principles
High-intensity exercise
Low-intensity exercise
Yoga
Use sugar to stop cravings
Avoid sugar to avoid cravings
Amino acid therapy, including L-glutatamine
Vitamin/mineral supplementation
Tracking days
Not tracking days
Quit a day at a time
Commit to quit forever

I tried them all - and kept what worked. But my point is, if what you're doing isn't leading you to your goal, whatever that is, do something else. Repeating the same experiment over and over until there is an epic fail (which is when too many of the subjects die during the trial) makes no sense and is dangerous. I think we sometimes forget what serious business this is -- addictions can kill and there is no way to predict the outcome of any particular addictive drinking episode.

MWO has a lot to offer and there are options provided - use or not of medications, moderation, abstinence - with all sorts of supportive practices discussed in various threads. If someone has successfully used a different approach, I hope they share it. It might be just what a person who is struggling needs to hear.

No Sugar -this is one of the best posts that I read on this forum in a long time. Thank you posting.

--sf--

[Baclofenman]

Firstly, I would apologise for jumping this thread - I had been keeping up to date with it - But there are certain comments that have been made (off topic) that need to be addressed
I was going to start a new thread to reply to this post but as it has been thanked, I take it, that it is seen to be ok to de-rail the thread further?

The creator and leader of the site came to her idea to start her new site as a result of what she considered to be my "relentless trolling" -her words.

Without speaking for Ne, this forum is tired of your endless claims of fact, which turn out to be without backing, citation of evidential basis - Amongst other things which have been covered elsewhere and do not need to be re-produced on this thread

She wanted to create a site where people would not suggest abstinence and other information that did not coincide with her thoughts and opinions. She also want to create a site where Baclofen is the primary way of becoming "indifferent" to alcohol.

Absolute rubbish - As you will be aware I (amongst others) made Ne's foresight come true in the creation of the Forum - I, Spirit as you are aware am an avid supporter of abstinence - Do you really think I would have helped her if this was the case - In fact Spirit, amongst the 1000's of emails I have exchanged with Ne, I can catagorically advise you the restriction of subjects has been mentioned......Never - Yes the Forum (by its own description) is a medication information based forum, however over my DEAD body will any help for alcoholism be censored - FACT

With all of this said, I truly do wish that NE and her followers stick with and remain loyal to their new site and stop creating such negative, harmful turmoil on this forum.

The only comment which remotely fits this remit is posts directed to yourself, questioning your sources for some of the, quite frankly ridiculous comments and statements you have made

Quite clearly, the leader of the new forum is not only concerned about keeping her new site free and clear of opposing views, but she is also concerned about making sure MWO members do not express their own opinions, thoughts, or information -especially when the information posted does not involve her or Baclofen.

Of course when you say MWO members, you are infact, refering to your unsubstatiated claims - Unless of course you mean she is not entitled to an personal opinion

The rest is personal, so I will leave Ne to answer, if she is allowed to express an opinion, or can be bothered

Regards


Bacman

[Spiritfree]

Firstly, I would apologise for jumping this thread - I had been keeping up to date with it - But there are certain comments that have been made (off topic) that need to be addressed
I was going to start a new thread to reply to this post but as it has been thanked, I take it, that it is seen to be ok to de-rail the thread further?



Without speaking for Ne, this forum is tired of your endless claims of fact, which turn out to be without backing, citation of evidential basis - Amongst other things which have been covered elsewhere and do not need to be re-produced on this thread



Absolute rubbish - As you will be aware I (amongst others) made Ne's foresight come true in the creation of the Forum - I, Spirit as you are aware am an avid supporter of abstinence - Do you really think I would have helped her if this was the case - In fact Spirit, amongst the 1000's of emails I have exchanged with Ne, I can catagorically advise you the restriction of subjects has been mentioned......Never - Yes the Forum (by its own description) is a medication information based forum, however over my DEAD body will any help for alcoholism be censored - FACT



The only comment which remotely fits this remit is posts directed to yourself, questioning your sources for some of the, quite frankly ridiculous comments and statements you have made


Of course when you say MWO members, you are infact, refering to your unsubstatiated claims - Unless of course you mean she is not entitled to an personal opinion

The rest is personal, so I will leave Ne to answer, if she is allowed to express an opinion, or can be bothered

Regards


Bacman

Bacman- when others visit your and Ne's site, they will clearly see for themselves what your site is all about.
(What medications are mentioned on your site other Baclofen and Naltrexone (or the new version thereof)?

[Baclofenman]

(What medications are mentioned on your site other Baclofen and Naltrexone (or the new version thereof)?

It is not my site

Whatever is bought to the table - Like I said there are no restrictions (Or did you not read/choose to ignore/not understand (delete irrelevent option(s)) that bit


Regards


Bacman

EDIT: May I suggest if you wish to discuss EOMA then you start your own thread rather than infiltrate other threads with your questions?

[NoSugar]

"But what I am suggesting is controlled planned drinking NOT moderation. NS both you and I know people who can and I think it is a position that should be suggested and supported as a positive way forward NOT a failure/slip/relapse."

It would be hard to encourage someone to do something that I myself don't know if I could do and at this point, see no reason to try. None of us are addiction experts and can only describe what has worked for us. And I don't think that most people who could speak to the experience are likely to be on a support forum. If I could plan to drink as much as I wanted a few times a year and wasn't torn apart by cravings and preoccupation between the episodes, I don't think it would occur to me that I needed help.

I think it would be risky to encourage a person to do it in case it did take them right back to addictive drinking. On the other hand, if a person has made the choice to drink periodically because that makes it possible for them not to drink addictively, it's a positive outcome for them and shouldn't be criticized. I know it would be hard for me not to want them to take the next step and be done entirely so in an effort not to impose my way out on others, I probably would not comment, just as I don't post on the remaining moderation thread.

[treetops]

I am not going to say yes or no to controlled drinking because I am of the view, that, 'whatever works' for the person concerned and the issues they have to face with AL. (e.g. total abstinence might be necessary for medical reasons).
But I would personally worry about suggesting controlled drinking for some people. Like myself. Because I don't know if I would have the restraint to limit myself to just one day. Lets say Christmas for example. The Christmas period can be as long as a piece of string - and if I was feeling cruisy about drinking on the day, I might say to myself, why not Boxing Day, - maybe the day after and so on. After all its holidays, I am relaxing and not driving anywhere, the booze tastes good, I haven't argued with anyone and so on. Thats just a point of view I want to present.
Its not really until we try out the controlled 'experiment' that we will know the outcome.
Having said that I dont operate on a basis of fear about AL myself. I toughed out my last quit, the initial months that is, and now I just dont want to drink. And for me, forever, is fine. Of course I might eat these words one day, but thats how I see, think and feel for myself.
I also agree with Kuya that relapse, etc, counting days can be counterproductive for some people. There is also a lot of pseudo-science about relapse, quitting etc etc.

And I am also sick to the teeth of a a certain person butting in other people's threads. We don't want to read all the bloody time about these vindictive campaigns. Please have the decency to stay out of threads like this one unless you keep to the topic. We are trying to help Pauly here - not drive her away.