Topa my visit to the Doc

[stillcrawling]

Topa my visit to the Doc

name change?

Gabby what do you mean?

[ScoobyDoo]

Topa my visit to the Doc

Thanks guys

Really looking forward to the Topa Dopa. I'm feeling the Lexapro Dopa at this point which will wear off soon. I feel that if I can psychologically adjust to alcohol abs/mods through the use of Topa then I will set myself up for good re training for future, and break the cycle of binges.

Scooby (not Doo) :H

[MDBiker]

Topa my visit to the Doc

14 Days AF. Woo! Hoo!
We?re Winning :happy: We?re Winning :happy: We?re Winning :happy:
I am so proud to be a part of this group. You guys can?t imagine how much it means to me to see everyone working toward 30 days AF. I have been so sad (depressed) for months that it is hard for me to be this happy. Matter of fact I can?t remember the last time I was really happy. You are all a God send for me. We need to figure out a prize we can give everyone who makes 30 days. Maybe we could come up with a certificate or something to present to the people who make it. Just a thought.

God Bless all of you
Bear

[DidItForMe]

Topa my visit to the Doc

ScoobyDoo:

The topa helped soooo much, it's true. I don't think I could have come this far without it. HOWEVER...it doesn't cure everything. I have to tell you that there are still times that I crave alcohol. I still have to tell myself "no." I am not sure that will ever go away. I know it is not as strong as it used to be without the topa and so it is easier to say no, but it is still there, so weekends may still be a problem for awhile. Topa is a miracle, but it is not the end of the story. More power to you!!!!!!

[wwbarb]

Topa my visit to the Doc

Scoob, I am in the same boat as you. I have no physical addition to booze at all. Mine is all in my head. When Friday comes around, I "deserve a drink" - it's the party and companionship I'm looking for. Most of my work is out of the house alone, so I'm ready to get out.

Right now I'm doing topa as a crutch, but to stop, I need to heal my mind. I like beer but can't stomach it on topa. Unfortunately, my real poison is scotch, and it doesn't have that effect there. Don't know what it will do for wine.

It might help if before the "witching hour" comes on you have other plans. Have something definite set up where alcohol can't be included. Then, it might be at least later in the day before you get started. For example, I used to schedule a massage at 4:00 on Fridays for a couple of weeks. Or make a movie date with a friend. After a couple of weeks, I got used to not doing what I used to do at 4:00 - drink.

Just my thoughts.

[Camelia]

Topa my visit to the Doc

Reasons to try Topa

Hi,

I have been reading posts all week and felt compelled to join today - to add my 'tuppence worth' regarding Topa. I have similar pattern to many here - not physically addicted but strongly psychologically dependent. However, I am a neuroscientist working in brain research (having previously worked in the field of epileptology) and I know that 'behind every negative thought there is a toxic molecule'. In other words - everything we even think has a physical or molecular basis. I was familiar with Topamax for epilepsy treatment and this site drew my attention to it's possible role in addiction. The Lancet paper has convinced me that Topa is worth giving a try. Incidentally - one of its authors is the well known psychologist Carlo Diclemente - co -author of the book Changing for good - along with Prochaska and Norcross. These guy's have been working out psychological approaches for years and it is definitely significant that Diclemente is now a leading light in the search to validate a biochemical approach also - to address the physical changes in the brain that have already occured long before physical addiction is fully expressed. a key message in the paper also is the fact that you can see changes (if you happen to be the right person) even while still drinking.

I have ordered my Topa from Aclepsa because my GP would not even entertain the idea I am sure (UK) and am also using Kudzu and L-Glutamate. I did 5 days AF from last friday - and after many days on glutamate and only one on Kudzu I thought I would test myself and see if I could moderate (ie leave a glass of wine in the bottle). I could not. Maybe I needed to be on the Kudzu for longer????? I will keep going and give it another test next week BEFORE I go on the Topa - just to try and separate out the effects.

I also use the Inner Talk CDs which I have had for a while but not used fully til now.

I tell you all now - I felt great after 5 AF days and my brain was coming up with such smart stuff! I need that in my business :-) I am looking forward to freedom. If I am one of the lucky ones that Topa helps - great. If I am not I will continue to work on 'leaving alcohol behind' without it but definitely with the continued inspiration of this site.

I have used AA. They talk a lot about denial. I think both AA and much of the medical and community at large are in huge denial about the possibility of a pharmacological approach to addiction having a legimitate place alongside other therapies.

Keep on going on....

Camelia
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[ScoobyDoo]

Topa my visit to the Doc

Wow... welcome aboard Camelia! I am also playing with different supps and testing what works for me and what doesn't. This is really interesting what you've found!

From a science perspective, what are your thoughts on the physical vs psychological aspect? You've mentioned above re the psych/physical. Do you think there are some more physically Dependant than others or is that a stage of alcoholism type thing? The answer, I believe might help solve why Kudzu and the L-Glut works so well for some and not for others. For me, I haven't found a marked change. I've been taking the kudzu for about 4 weeks now, loading up moreso on weekends and I still get the psychological craving like what Barb described above ie it's Friday, I deserve a drink/party. Well done on your 5 days AF... the 5th day is always amazing for me and I think it all just gets better Welcome to MWO and I hope we see you posting away.

DidIt, thanks for your frank explanation of Topa. What you've explained is exactly what I have been searching for ie the psychological dependency will still be there in part. I guess if it helps me to break that cycle of weekend binge drinking, it can only put me in a better place. So I'm going to try to go AF (again! lol) this weekend (it's now Friday morning in Sydney) and am not going to get all hung up on it if I do or don't make it through.

Barb, thanks for your tip! Apart from Sunday lunch at a friends place, we don't have any dinner party type activities, and the friend whose house we are going to on Sunday, I have told her about my alcohol moderation approach, so we are breaking out the green tea and bottle of San Pellegrino (yumbo Italian mineral water) instead of the wine... hell, I might bring 3 bottles! lol The guys can drink the beer

So Barb, I am going to book a massage! Actually my fiance is a Physiotherapist so I might even get a freeby there! :H Barb I can relate to everything you've said so much. I think we're in the same boat ie that Topa will be a crutch while I work on my psych. I'd like to think that one day I can *successfully* moderate... but we'll see.

Here's a funny thing I have just been pondering. I quit smoking nearly 5 weeks ago. With that, I allowed myself to drink during the week for the first 2 weeks to help counteract the nicotine withdrawal, but apart from that 2 week period, I have gone from drinking 6/7 nights a week to drinking only on weekends, have given up the fags... and in all this time my fiance still smokes (he smokes outside so it's ok) and still drinks (just 1 or 2) nearly every night. I think I deserve to give myself a big pat on the back for my progress Oh and I'm back into running and swimming too. It's sooo good to be free of those nasty cigarettes!

Scooby

[Camelia]

Topa my visit to the Doc

Hi Scooby - sorry if this is long - i will be briefer in future, but wanted to give you as full an answer as i could.

Physical versus psychological addiction? I believe they both come under the heading 'dependance'. My simple understanding - from what I have heard at all those AA meetings I attended - is that physically addicted people NEED a drink to get them going. They simply cannot function in any way normally without a certain level of alcohol in the system - can't get up, go to work etc etc. That explains the drinking in the morning. Non physically addicted people have the opposite problem they can't GET going if they have over imbibed the night before and never want a drink first thing, they usually can't really get going until the afternoon! Ring any bells?? This is where I am at.

The label of 'alcoholism' has long been debated. There is a lot of evidence for a genetic pre-disposition in certain individuals and families to classical 'alcoholism' - the full whammy - total physical and psychological dependence. If you are one of those (and I am) and you start drinking early - it can escalate very quickly. I have heard people say that they became madly addicted after the first drink. On this basis those who are not genetically loaded may well be able to 'drink for Ireland' and never become physically dependent. I know some of those too! I say physically here because everyone who likes a good drink is somewhat psychologically dependent. I was lucky in that I hardly drank at all until my mid to late twenties - social drinking for many years and then it escalated in my mid thirties during a particularly stressfull period.

There is also an interesting relationship between timing of 'dose' and quantities imbibed. I believe the scientists will soon be able to tell us how to AVOID getting hooked in the first place by following key guidelines when you first start drinking ie avoid drinking X amount of units at particular time intervals. The amounts and interval length have not yet been established. Whereas this information is a bit late for us - it may be useful for anyone wanting to return to safe drinking in the future.

All in all I think we are on some sort of continuum - social drinking, increasing dose leads to psych dependence, increasing dose leads to physical dependence and so on. The use of sups and drugs is still in the early days - no doubt in the future it will be known at what stage the different compounds (including the drugs) are likely to be of most use. Topa is so interesting because it seems to block the brain receptors responsible for mediating the 'reward' we get from alcohol. That is bourne out by the experiences posted on here - complete change in how beer tastes for some people - lack of interest in 2nd or 3rd wine for others. it seems to do the reverse miracle of 'turning wine into water' which is exactly what I believe is the most amazing and hopeful thing about it.

Cheers and thank you all for your help. My hangover today was completely different - I am no longer resigned to feeling like I did today for the rest of my life and I look forward to my next Day 5

Camelia

[Camelia]

Topa my visit to the Doc

Oh..

.......and one more distinction between psychological and physical dependence. if you are physically dependent you will have potentially serious and sometimes life threatening withdrawal symptoms. Therefore, you need to be withdrawn under medical supervision with the help of valium to minimise the symptoms. For women drinking over 70 units per week puts us at risk. it is a bit higher for men - not sure of the figure. Psychological dependence carries no such risk of serious withdrawal symptoms. For this reason it is important to be honest about amounts in question when considering withdrawal. It does seem that the majority of people on this site are psychologically dependent - seeking help early - am I right???

Nite nite now

Camelia

[redrobin]

Topa my visit to the Doc

Hello Camelia

Wonderful to have you here, both for your sake and to get your scientific perspective , which I am finding fascinating. What you have to say about the the psychological, physiological addiction continuum makes intuitive good sense to me - I've always been wary of the 'hair of the dog" arguement!

I'm also interested in the relationship between the amount of alcohol consumed and the interval between drinking because I think it will have significant implications for those of us who decide to try a moderation approach to alcohol in future. I suspect this may have to be worked out on a trial and error basis.

Meanwhile, welcome to MWO and the best of best wishes with yur own personal quest...

Robin
x

[Paddy]

Topa my visit to the Doc

Welcome Camelia,

Interesting bunch all of us. Make for interesting case studies, ey? Well join the club. The interesting thing about alcohol dependence is that different from other social evils, this one knows no boundaries ... Whether you're rich, poor, educated, less educated, it can affect you.

Best