Down the Rabbit Hole - What is Moderating?

[Byrdlady]

Down the Rabbit Hole - What is Moderating?

I'm Strong and in Control;1590048 wrote: I' . Thinking that maybe I'll get tired of it and just won't want it, Thank you all for your suppurt, and Byrdie particularly for finding me post. I'm on the Mpnday morning mad dash, but very much srill here.

Addiction just doesn't work this way. Your alcoholic brain CRAVES it and it always will. As sick as it has made us all, and we still think about it and want it! I have seen it explained before around here, I think TurnAgain had something on it, but our brain reacts to AL in a way that we just can't help. We have crossed the line and no amount of wishing and hoping it away will change that. It was a hard lesson for me, but I finally got it. Mollyka had a great post yesterday that said that the ADDICT in us will make us think we are the exceptions.....so true. Alcoholic drinking really IS like riding a bicycle...you never lose it. B

[I'm Strong and in Control]

Down the Rabbit Hole - What is Moderating?

Thanks all - as you may know, I'm going away for the holiday weekend and don't know if I have internet access. Byrdie - asking for a lifeline here as I'm not feeling the strength at the moment. Hanging on by the quicks of the fingernails. Laundry done, just about packed. Pensive, but not going awol. I'm in it for the long haul - thanks my friends - have a great sober holiday!!!!

[littlepinkcat]

Down the Rabbit Hole - What is Moderating?

Hiya I'm strong,

moderation doesn't work forme and I wasn't an every day drinker. I was a binge drinker. Not always binging, the binges occurred about once every 2 months but they were horrendous and the gaps between binges were getting smaller and I am 1 and a half years sober and I can't moderate, so I would feel sorry for an everyday drinker who tried tomoderate it must be ROCK hard. Abstaining is the only way 4 me

[K9Lover]

Down the Rabbit Hole - What is Moderating?

I can't even imagine what "moderating" would look like for me. Having 1 or 2 drinks for me is just useless. What's the point of that? My mind is not wired to be satisfied with one or two. I have to keep going until I blackout, then pass out. Sadly that's the only way I know how to drink...which is why I chose not to drink at all. The risks are too great!

[I'm Strong and in Control]

Down the Rabbit Hole - What is Moderating?

Quick check in. Survived the holiday travel without the GSR brothers! I'm not drinking today.

[YouKayBee]

Down the Rabbit Hole - What is Moderating?

red67;1590116 wrote: TSM is The Sinclair Method. You take Naltrexone 1 hour before drinking and it is supposed to take away the desire to drink alcoholic in excess (very simplistic version on my part -UK can explain better). I tried the method for about 4 months, in fact thats how I found this site. It can take up to 18 months to work (and for some it doesn't work at all) and your drinking can actually spike before it works. After 4 months of trying it (and months of researching it) I decided it was way easier to just quit altogether. Alcohol is a fantasy. What we think it does for us is just our alcoholic mind trying to get us to keep drinking. Yes, I still have thoughts of drinking from time to time but it is way easier to just not drink than to control the monster.

Hope this helps.

Good summary Red67.

I didn't go into TSM to drink, in fact drinking alcohol was the last thing I wanted BUT I needed to break the grip and having tried everything else without success TSM did that for me. As Red says you take a tablet 1 hour before you drink, every time you drink and it lessens the cravings/drive to drink. I saw immediate success and the idea is you become a social or moderate drinker...........which I did do for best part of 2 years and there were times when I only had one glass of wine in 3-4 weeks, other times I'd go out and party like the rest of them out there, but then I realised I was no longer enjoying the effects of any alcohol, I was only drinking because I could and decided to quit full stop. Because I have no desire to return to alcoholic drinking I simply do not drink alcohol.

[I'm Strong and in Control]

Down the Rabbit Hole - What is Moderating?

Thanks UK & Red, I didn't realize that this drug was a possibility. Always great to have another tool in the box. I really appreciate you posting and sharing your experience. It really DOES make a difference. I'm not drinking today.

[Pavati]

Down the Rabbit Hole - What is Moderating?

Hi, I'm Strong:

I was looking for you in the Nest - I'm glad to find your thread. My "moderation" turned into a struggle of a year that turned finally to a nightmare of a week that I wouldn't wish on anyone - and up until then I had been one of the "OK" ones in my mind, too.

I finally admitted to myself, then my husband, and then my therapist that I am an alcoholic and can never drink again. Scary thought, but at the moment, a lot less scary than the thought of being back where I just was. One day at a time.

I have appreciated your honest posts - I'm glad your vacation ended without the GSR brothers, but I am curious - did you drink? It doesn't appear so by your signature, but I couldn't tell by your post.

Oh, and by the way, I am not drinking today. Makes it so much easier!

[I'm Strong and in Control]

Down the Rabbit Hole - What is Moderating?

Pavati - thanks for finding my thread and posting. I appreciate you sharing your journey with me and I too am on a journey that I must take. I have found that there is no support on this board for people who moderate, despite Roberta Jewells' book with extensive research to the contrary, and I ask did she lie to sell books? I don't believe she did. I re-posted her post that she now chooses to abstain - she did not say that she was unsuccessful moderating. There are plenty of threads supporting people struggling to abstain, but none where someone can honestly post about struggling to moderate without being told by someone who has chosen to abstain that they will fail. The Long Term Moderators thread is a contentious argument between people who chose to abstain and people struggling to Moderate. Who supports someone by telling them they will fail? I've gotten several PMs and posts with the question "did you drink" - and it really feels like I'm being asked "whose side are you on"? While I've been commended for my 'honest' posts elsewhere, any posts dealing with my thoughts about drinking or moderation have been discouraged. I've been asked not to post in the Newbie's Nest in order to support those struggling to abstain. I'd like to support those struggling to moderate but have not found where can they post. You are free to go anywhere on these Boards and share your experience - if I choose to moderate I cannot post anywhere without being told I will fail. Please tell me if I'm wrong. The question is not "can you moderate" it is "can you be supported in moderating on this board".
I'm not drinking today.

[free at last]

Down the Rabbit Hole - What is Moderating?

Hi Strong,
So glad to hear you had a good holiday and kept the GSR brothers away. I recognize that may mean you had some alcohol but not to a point of inviting GSR to the table or it may mean you abstained. Either is your choice and your journey. Please do keep posting your thoughts as I enjoy seeing how you are doing. You sound great so I am thinking it must have been good R&R for you.

[I'm Strong and in Control]

Down the Rabbit Hole - What is Moderating?

free at last;1594515 wrote: Hi Strong,
So glad to hear you had a good holiday and kept the GSR brothers away. I recognize that may mean you had some alcohol but not to a point of inviting GSR to the table or it may mean you abstained. Either is your choice and your journey. Please do keep posting your thoughts as I enjoy seeing how you are doing. You sound great so I am thinking it must have been good R&R for you.

Thanks, Free! I am so honored by and grateful for the friendships I've made and supprt I receive ~ especially yours and hope to continue and build upon those relationships! . I'm not going anywhere! I'm not drinking today. ODAT.

[BELIEVE]

Down the Rabbit Hole - What is Moderating?

With all due respect to the abstinence camp, modding is entirely doable in some cases.

The "good times" vs. "Bad times" with drinking sums up my version of modding (modding will be different for different people). Having just a couple drinks on a regular basis sounds like the lamest shit in the world to me. So when I drink, I drink till I get my fill, all day every day if I want (usually don't want that but still). I drink on vacations and special occasions, but outside of that I just stay af. Its kind of like having two realities, but neither is preferable to the other, together they make a very nice balance in life (for me anyway).

Stopping drinking for an extended period is important, IMO you have to create your "AF reality" and get comfortable in it. Stopping the first few times was difficult, but it got easier the more times I did it. Now its really no biggie to stop drinking when vacations over. Its about like giving up eating foods I like in sufficient quantities for the paltry rations of crap I really don't like but is good for me, which goes hand in hand with getting back into af mode.

For me, af mode is my default setting. Its comfortable, I'm productive, and physically I feel great all the time (hangover-free mornings are the greatest). Modding frees you of that desperate feeling of never getting to experience the "Good times" involving alcohol again. You can be around alcohol all the time and not give a damn. Not everyone has to be either drunk or abstaining. I've found the middle of that particular road to be quite wide. Maybe you will too someday.

Hope this makes sense and helps in some way. I just got off work and I'm dead tired so sorry if I'm rambling a bit.

[YouKayBee]

Down the Rabbit Hole - What is Moderating?

I have quite strong feelings on this topic of moderation.

Firstly the condition, disease, illness whatever you wish to call alcoholism provides something called 'denial'. Denial prevents recovery, denial convinces the alcoholic they can just control it, or have another drink and somehow it'll work out fine. Denial and thoughts of moderation keep or tempt people locked into terrible cycle of alcoholism.

Some people do manage to moderate successfully but for most it doesn't work. Alcoholism causes destruction and death. When you are faced with a solution that might work, but tends not to vs something that is more black and white a lot of people will take the white side.

As already explained my recovery started 2 1/2 years ago when I started TSM which requires drinking, and results in moderation. I didn't start it to carry on drinking, I started it to break the destruction and damage alcohol was causing in my life. It worked almost from day one. During this period however I did find it very difficult to tell people I was still drinking, and found it difficult to get support. I felt and knew from the responses I'd already had that if I went to AA they'd be sceptical, and try and persuade me otherwise. For this reason I didn't tell many people until they noticed success. In fact most around me assumed and thought I'd quit drinking - the effects on me were so noticeable, and I changed so much............

During this time I came across people who had told me they didn't drink...........to find actually on occasion they might have one or two, but they counted themselves as non-drinkers or would say they gave up drinking x years ago. Now this made me feel quite angry, perhaps because I'm obsessive I felt they were fake, to me giving up alcohol is never touching a drop again. Black and white.

I moderated, and often rarely drank for best part of two years BUT I always took Naltrexone before doing so, and I was still an alcoholic. That 2 years of reduced drinking with lots of sobriety (because I wasn't a glass of wine in the evening type person), allowed me to start growing as a person very much in line with what AA say. I felt like a teenager unsure of what to say, behave or do in many quite normal situations. You see ever since I was in my late teens I'd relied on alcohol for good time, to get smashed, to escape.......so I wasn't used to dealing with things. Even when sober I'd be reactionary, childlike, throw tantrums, run away and survive until the next drinking session. During this period of my recovery so many people looked at me like I was in denial, their accepted solution is abstenance and AA and quite a few just said "I don't understand". I got a bit fed up of this and a bit of support would have been good. I also felt I couldn't tell anyone if I did get drunk, or even if I did have a drink.

Today walking through town I spied a local alcoholic who I had drank with on occasion many years ago. He'd been stopped by two police officers who seemed to be having a word. He then unzipped his jacket and pulled out a soft toy, Santa Claus. The officers immediately whipped out their radios and I assume they were calling for transport about to arrest him (he is known as a shoplifter). He looked so lost, yet also so accepting of his fate, a little like a lost boy. I'm not sure why I've put this here, but I have.

So moderation. Well I got to this summer after a winter and spring of mostly not drinking because it wasn't compatible with lifestyle for those months. I found myself drinking just for the sake of it, so much so I wasn't really moderating, I was shovelling it down only to feel rubbish. Even if I only drank one small glass of wine I didn't like it from the first mouthful.

I decided to quit, it would end the very few occasions when I'd work out if I could drive within a certain number of hours or not(cos I'm not repeating that one), it also meant I could start telling people who wanted proof of change that I was AF, it made things easier with family and friends - they became less confused, they knew I'd been alcoholic and thus the solution is not drinking. It also made it easier for me to work out my nutrition, made it easier if I decided to go back to AA.

Sounds like a lot of doing it for others. Hmmm, well truth is I was scared, scared that one day the TSM results would reverse, scared I'd wake up one day and not be able to stop drinking. Scared I'd wreck all the hard work I'd done in turning my life around, regaining trust.

Moderation in others, yes I'm a hypocrit in a way because I think without other support it is a dangerous game. Also even with Nal or baclofen you can remove the physical cravings BUT the 'habit' still needs working on because you've learned you have a drink at certain times.

It's bloody difficult. I think at the end of my moderation I was fed up of taking a medication, then having to work out how much I was drinking, always being aware. I just couldn't be bothered and the risks were too great.

I like to think people sort themselves out, however alcohol addiction (and any drug or high) it's a tricky, very slippery thing to deal with.

[BELIEVE]

Down the Rabbit Hole - What is Moderating?

UK I don't think your pointing out that we need help from others, despite the wholly negative impact others can have on our attempts regain control of our lives from al makes you a hypocrite, nor do your views on moderation. That tells me you're the real deal and you're "Walking the walk", not just "Talking the talk".

When I was stopping for the first time, I had no problem telling people what I was doing at first. But every time I would refuse a drink or mention that I wasn't drinking, people would treat me like I just stepped off a UFO or something. Funny how people could take your attempt to make such a major improvement in your life and make it embarrassing to mention, but thats what they did. You want to talk about people looking lost? At some point I realized that some dipshit who would rather be separated from his (or her) right hand than their precious beer or whatever telling me I'm crazy for not wanting to join them in their folly are the ones who are truly crazy. Then I began hearing things like "Oh, if I got hangovers I would just quit" "I would just quit this, I would just quit that". Easy claims to make while hiding behind your beer and your nice toasty little buzz. This, IMO, is hypocrisy in its purest form. What those losers should have been saying is something more along the lines of "If I could quit, I would quit". Their hubris prevented them from seeing that what was once a nice accessory to life became a crutch, and that crutch evolved into a prosthetic, and that prosthetic eventually replaced their desire and ability to get along on their own. Frankly I ended several "freindships" over that.

On the flipside, other people, like my MWO "Family" who were taking their journey along with me at the time, provided positive and uplifting support. Sometimes you need someone to prop you up when you're felling a bit weak. Sometimes you need goading to keep moving in the right direction. Getting back to the subject of this thread, victory over al will look different for everyone. Some mod, some quit altogether. Some fail unfortunately. If you are failing you might need someone who genuinely cares about you enough to take on the difficult task of confronting you with the fact that you're failing. I agree with your assertion that things are black and white in this regard. Al forces you to adopt the role of either the bug or the windshield, period. I'm just saying that if you've taken your life back, and your new reality doesn't include the things that led you here, then modding or not you are the windshield.

That said, it sounds like you are in a much better space now, you've achieved a hard fought victory. Of course al is persistent so one can never let their guard down but congrats definitely for getting to where you're at.

[spiderwoman]

Down the Rabbit Hole - What is Moderating?

I'd love to be able to indulge in the holiday type drinking you describe I'm Strong, but I know it will only take the first glass of wine to set me off back down the slippery slope to 2 bottles plus a day. I dare not risk it, its as simple as that. I'm with Byrdy, stick with your quit and build on it. I don't regret a single day in the last year where I haven't drunk, the same cannot be said of the 30 years before that!