Taking my leave of this forum.

[shelbysmiles]

Taking my leave of this forum.

"The way that you and your AF cabal come across has probably destroyed more people that have come here trying to get their alcohol moderated than has helped."

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. -Inigo Montoya

If by moderate, you mean vast quantities frequently, then yes, I agree. We may come across a little blunt. But, if you are serious about controlling your drinking I have no doubt you will find loads of support here.

[Nelz]

Taking my leave of this forum.

This whole moderation V abstaining gets so daym tiring.

It is the one topic that always has and will forever cause arguments and hurt feelings, and I just truly dont understand it. This board is heavily weighted to the non-drinkers because most of us have issues controlling and simply dont have an off button.

Very few of you lucky ones do have that off button....this board should be just as mod friendly as Abs friendly. I have always offered support for both sides and never tried to sway an individual one way or the other.

My only wish is that people would let people make their own choice. There is a "mod" section on the board if you are so inclined to choose that route....may I suggest that you stay vested in there.

If you feel the need to leave then thats what Id do, but I think you will find support here you may have trouble finding in real life

Now for the rest of us.....Cant we all just get along.............:H

[Alky]

Taking my leave of this forum.

I'm going to call TG out on his true intentions here. He's looking for enablers, not for support. I finished enabling myself and I'm done enabling my still-alcoholic friends. As Homey the Clown (as portrayed by Damon Wayans) used to say, "Homey don't play dat…"

Moderation doesn't work for many, but it can for a few, and I'm not discounting that it could possibly work for TG. What hes 's describing, though, is binge drinking, not moderation. When he's serious about true moderation, I will be among the first to welcome him back.

To paraphrase Kuya, what's 60 days? Or 30 for that matter?

[mama bear]

Taking my leave of this forum.

well said Nelz....as always

[Jazi's Mum]

Taking my leave of this forum.

TrueGrit please don't leave the forum. We need all voices here. And if you leave there will be one fewer voice for moderation.

It doesn't matter what the heck you do, or how successful you are - nobody has the right to post on your thread that you will not be successful. That really stinks.

If those who follow the AA model have to warn everyone - including themselves - that one drink leads to a new 'hell' just like the old one - I say do some homework! There is a ton of research that shows the problem is NOT taking a drink. It's not about the alcohol, or the gambling, or the sex, or the crack. It's the DRIVE to abuse these substances/activities that is the problem.

Identify the drive, solve that, and it is possible to have a glass of something good once in a while with safety. But counting days, months, years and white knuckling, and preaching the AA mantra to everyone simply means that day will come when the drive becomes stronger than anything - and then there's a SLIP, or a RELAPSE or whatever we're calling it this week.

I've been there so I know what I'm talking about. There is a reason AA's success rate is between 5 and 10%. This is FACT. Both naltrexone and baclofen have success rates in the high 60's to high 80's. This is FACT.

I too have tried to use my own thread to speak about alternatives to the AA model - again NO response, very little support - but lots of warnings about how I'm going to end up in the gutter.

This makes me really angry.
JMum

[myhappyplace]

Taking my leave of this forum.

Hey JMum, just curious...why do you assume that everyone who abstains is following the AA model?

[treetops]

Taking my leave of this forum.

Just a point of correction many of the long term abstainers, myself included, don't follow AA
or preach it. We also are not on long term medication for our drinking. Some are and some are not.

[myhappyplace]

Taking my leave of this forum.

Same train of thought Treetops...must be the southern air

[Jazi's Mum]

Taking my leave of this forum.

myhappyplace, the AA model is the "never have a drink because you'll end up right back where you started" mantra. I'm not referring particularly to the 12-step approach, but most of what I read here echoes that approach too.

I've yet to see a response to my calling in the research on using drugs for either cutting down or stopping alcohol abuse. This is just not addressed - it's called being in denial, or wanting to drink when you should just stop. Was Dr. Ameinsen lying? Was David Sinclair fudging his research? Is Lance Dodes a deluded fool? Does Gabor Mate not know anything about addicts? This is not a matter of differences in opinion it's a denial of solid scientific research.

But I'm beating a dead horse and I will stop.
JMum

[kuya]

Taking my leave of this forum.

I certainly didn't follow the AA model,..... But I do know that my chemistry from the get go was alcoholic.....some people just are.

It just seems nonsensical to me to TAKE a drug( naltroxene baclofen etc) so that you can take LESS of another drug, unless to ultimately stop or control that drug( alcohol) because the thought of NOT drinking is too painful.

Maybe I have been sober too long. WHAT was good about drinking alcohol?

All I remember is liking taking a break from my insecure, rejected self......since I have pretty well fixed that I fail to see the point.

I rarely enjoyed drinking I just didn't like being sober.....now I do.

Can someone pro moderation tell me WHY they think drinking alcohol in any quantity is a good thing ( apart from fitting in...cos that is the reasoning of every addict)

[myhappyplace]

Taking my leave of this forum.

JMum, I think that there is always lively discussion amongst the meds section of the forum in regard to the differences that approach can make. Perhaps most people, like me, prefer not to comment as it is continually covered there by people who have done the research and know which Dr is which.

[red67]

Taking my leave of this forum.

Jazi's Mum;1616215 wrote: myhappyplace, the AA model is the "never have a drink because you'll end up right back where you started" mantra. I'm not referring particularly to the 12-step approach, but most of what I read here echoes that approach too.

I've yet to see a response to my calling in the research on using drugs for either cutting down or stopping alcohol abuse. This is just not addressed - it's called being in denial, or wanting to drink when you should just stop. Was Dr. Ameinsen lying? Was David Sinclair fudging his research? Is Lance Dodes a deluded fool? Does Gabor Mate not know anything about addicts? This is not a matter of differences in opinion it's a denial of solid scientific research.

But I'm beating a dead horse and I will stop.
JMum

When I found MWO it was because I was doing TSM/Nal. Unfortunately it did not work for me. Nor did AA or counseling. I do believe that meds can help, the only one I tried was NAL because I was afraid of the side effects of everything else. After 10 years of daily drinking and misery I did finally get it. What worked for me was this site, Smart Recovery and just plain being ready to do it. I know everyone is different and what works for one may not work for another.

I hate it when I come off as preachy and truly only want EVERY alcoholic to never have to go thru this hell. My nephews have friends who have died due to alcohol related incidents and I know of at least 3 people who have killed themselves due to depression and drinking (no one in my immediate family thank goodness). So the biggest thing for me is that this is deadly, just as much if not more than doing drugs.

After being here for 4 years I can tell you that the members here are genuine and truly just want to help.

[Nelz]

Taking my leave of this forum.

red67;1616224 wrote: When I found MWO it was because I was doing TSM/Nal. Unfortunately it did not work for me. Nor did AA or counseling. I do believe that meds can help, the only one I tried was NAL because I was afraid of the side effects of everything else. After 10 years of daily drinking and misery I did finally get it. What worked for me was this site, Smart Recovery and just plain being ready to do it. I know everyone is different and what works for one may not work for another.

I hate it when I come off as preachy and truly only want EVERY alcoholic to never have to go thru this hell. My nephews have friends who have died due to alcohol related incidents and I know of at least 3 people who have killed themselves due to depression and drinking (no one in my immediate family thank goodness). So the biggest thing for me is that this is deadly, just as much if not more than doing drugs.

After being here for 4 years I can tell you that the members here are genuine and truly just want to help.

Havnet been here 4 years.....but I agree with this statement! Everyone tries to help, in their own way

[myhappyplace]

Taking my leave of this forum.

Nelz;1616228 wrote: Havnet been here 4 years.....but I agree with this statement! Everyone tries to help, in their own way

True :H Lovely post Red. Nice to see you Nelz, how's that brownie addiction going?

[treetops]

Taking my leave of this forum.

We must be in sinc today My Happy Place.

I have no problems with people taking drugs to assist them to cut down/quit/not die/not destroy others etc because of their AL addiction. This is as you say well and truely debated in the meds sections here and I applaud that open debate.
I for one, like to read the meds sections from time to time to see what options people with our problems are pursuing. Its not always possible to respond and there isn't always much someone who has never taken these meds - can say about SEs etc.