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**Byrdlady** · March 15, 2014, 07:57 PM

Alcoholic or wino? And is there a difference?

A rose is a rose is a rose.

When my hubs was catching on to me, I was a vodka drinker. He finally found my stash and I was busted. I swore to him I wouldn't buy/ drink any more vodka. And I didn't. So I switched to wine, I had never had ANY problem with that, until that was all there was. It wasn't very long before I was abusing that, too. When I ran out of that, I would drink whatever was in the cabinet, including peppermint schnapps, talk about sick! Yuck.
Alcohol is alcohol, it really doesn't matter how it is delivered. I say wine was just vodka with a mustache. :H

We are alcoholics. Trying to diminish it in any way is destructive to your mindset. If you can justify that you arent that bad, what is the next thing you will try to do? Yep, test the waters. The next thing you know you are right back down the rabbit hole.

There are degrees of ALK'ism. Consider yourself lucky if you didn't have to get all the way down the scale before you quit. This disease is progressive, it never improves it just gets worse. Dont let Dick Head get a toe hold in your head. Give him NO opportunity to rent space in your head. He has done enough for/ to both of us for a lifetime. It doesn't really matter what you call alcohol addiction...the cure is the same. Hang in there and keep your thoughts on being AF. Byrdie

**FlyAway** · March 15, 2014, 08:00 PM

Alcoholic or wino? And is there a difference?

I think that where your mind is taking you is a dangerous place.

We always had whiskey, bourbon, and tequila in my house. I despise them all. If I was completely out of booze there is not a chance in hell that I would have drank any of them. And I can tell you that I was definitely addicted to alcohol.

I suppose it's possible that the addiction can devolve to the point where one would drink anything, but I wasn't there.

**MossRose** · March 15, 2014, 08:12 PM

Alcoholic or wino? And is there a difference?

Thanks Byrdie. I know, I'm rationalizing... If I just stay away from wine, blah, blah, blah. I really need to remind myself that I wouldn't be alone and lonely right now if I hadn't been such a drunk, right? It's a vicious circle (or is it cycle?) Never could get that one straight. Anyway, telling Dick Head to take a hike. The weekends are just so hard.

**available** · March 15, 2014, 08:30 PM

Alcoholic or wino? And is there a difference?

I like you Moss loved wine, I still do and therefore i will not drink it. I dont like any other forms of al really except scotch on occasion but i think if i did drink other al then i would get addicted to it at the end of the day. I have beer and bourbon in the house, it does not appeal to me but i tell you if i had one drink i am positive the appeal would rise to the fore. I am an alcoholic plain and simple even it it was wine, i would never classify myself as any different just because the other "stuff" does not appeal to me.

You actually got me thinking that when i go out next week maybe i could have a scotch and soda instead of wine as i know wine is a trigger for me and then i just thought wtf are you thinking, al is al. That has shaken my al brain up. I am not even going to rationalise that thought but with you saying what you did my al thoughts started and after 15 weeks that is scary. Putting those thoughts back in my "box" and i will not drink ANYTHING next week.

It just goes to show what addiction is like, it is always there, always trying to give an excuse, always trying to win! I will not let it win.

Thanks for the thoughts Moss but put them where they belong, away. You are an alcoholic like us all and that one drink will take you back to the black hole you were in. Hugs lovely.

**spiritwolf333** · March 15, 2014, 09:32 PM

Alcoholic or wino? And is there a difference?

Hi Mosse -Love your honesty. I always did find how powerful it could be when I told on myself before deciding not to drink. But I always needed to tell someone other than myself or else....

Always did only drink beer. However, I will assure you that there were mornings that I would have drank any alcohol had I not had beer on hand. And I detest liqueur.

Thanks for the post.

**MossRose** · March 15, 2014, 09:37 PM

Alcoholic or wino? And is there a difference?

Ava - I never meant for my post to entice or encourage someone to drink, so please don't misunderstand what I was trying to say. I have no desire, nor intention, of switching to something other than wine just so I can drink without fear of becoming addicted. I know I would get addicted. Luckily, liquor doesn't agree with me and I don't think I could get a drink down. It makes me gag. Literally. I can't even stand the smell of it. Odd thing for an alcoholic to say, isn't it? But it's true. I haven't drank hard liquor since 1986. Had an extremely bad experience (that I will NEVER forget) and vowed never again - and I haven't. Plus my ex was a whiskey and vodka drinker and I associate that smell with him.

So it would take some work to develop a taste for it and that is definitely not on my agenda. I was only musing on why wine has such a hold on me. As always, I'm looking for the bio-chemical reason behind my addiction, not trying to excuse it.

And again - I never meant to convey the idea that one form of AL is better or worse than another (well, with the exception of rubbing alcohol). I watched my brother drink anything and everything he could get his hands on. I know how it works.

I already regret posting this, but it was on my mind, and I needed to get it on paper so I could sort it out. I was just trying to talk myself out of the urge to drive to the store and buy some wine. I actually used the above post to stay strong. I thought to myself..."if the point is to get drunk - go for it. There's plenty in the house to get the job done." And then I didn't do either, so that confused the hell out of me. But I can say, I'm happy with the outcome, even if I upset some folks. Never meant any harm. Sorry. You know I love you all.

Thanks Spirit. That really was the point. I just rambled before getting there.

edit: *Full disclosure* I have had a few Bloody Mary's over the years and that counts as liquor, so I wasn't entirely truthful. OK - I feel better now.

**Glass Half Empty** · March 15, 2014, 09:44 PM

Alcoholic or wino? And is there a difference?

MossRose

I don’t think you’re rationalising or trying to diminish your problem at all – I think it’s a really interesting question. I'm in a similar position, but not only will I not drink something I’m not particularly keen on, I won’t even drink something I really like if the circumstances aren’t right. So I can be desperately craving a glass of wine, but if there’s none in the house, I won’t drink the port or the Baileys in the cupboard, even though I really enjoy that occasionally later in the evening after dinner, or the beer that for some reason I only really crave about 3 times a year after a hot afternoon of gardening. So it's clearly not JUST alcohol that drives our cravings, and I understand what you're trying to say.

I appreciate what the others have said about having to be careful with this line of thought, but I also think it’s too simplistic and quite unhelpful to say that because we all have a problem with alcohol that we all have the same problem, and therefore need to treat it the same way, because we obviously don’t. It may have a similar genesis, but each person’s problem is unique to them and can manifest itself in dozens of different ways. We all have a different genetic, physiological and psychosocial makeup, so to simply lump everyone as ‘an alcoholic’ and suggest there’s a ‘one size fits all’ solution fails to address many of the complexities that may help in our understanding, and subsequent treatment, of our individual problem.

To answer your question, I don’t think it’s just about the difference between an alcoholic and a wino (or abuse of any particular alcoholic drink), it’s part of a huge spectrum of different presentations of a problem that experts who have studied the subject for years still can’t agree on. I also think it’s really good that you’re examining how it affects you personally and bringing this sort of subject up for discussion.

EDIT: So please don't regret it.

**available** · March 15, 2014, 10:42 PM

Alcoholic or wino? And is there a difference?

Moss lovely you did not upset anyone i am sure and especially not me. You got me thinking and that is always good as complacency is not an option for us and i am so glad you posted and did not go to the liquor store. This is what MWO is for, opinions and comments and isnt it so much better than drinking. You are getting so much stronger in your wanting to stay sober and i am heaps proud of you.

The thoughts you provoked were good thoughts definitely for me as god forbid i would get to this date and order that scotch thinking it was no where near as bad as a wine which is my choice of addiction and for that i thank you Moss. So it is a WIN WIN situation for us all.

**Kradle123** · March 15, 2014, 11:10 PM

Alcoholic or wino? And is there a difference?

MossRose;1638244 wrote: Thanks Byrdie. I know, I'm rationalizing... If I just stay away from wine, blah, blah, blah. I really need to remind myself that I wouldn't be alone and lonely right now if I hadn't been such a drunk, right? It's a vicious circle (or is it cycle?) Never could get that one straight. Anyway, telling Dick Head to take a hike. The weekends are just so hard.

This is completely right on, MR.

I was just saying something so similar tonight to an old friend of mine that I had, in effect, no more friends left here in Washington, I had built a life I didn't recognize or particularly want and I owed it all to drinking day after day after day after day....Rum and cokes were actually my first choice back in the day...then wine ...then back to Rum...with Tonic this time....has AL screwed up just about everything in my life?? That would be a BIG FAT awful YES...Didn't matter what it was dressed in MR...it was always a wolf in sheeps clothing-

:l:upset:

**treetops** · March 16, 2014, 01:43 AM

Alcoholic or wino? And is there a difference?

I also think its dangerous to differentiate between different types of AL. It reminds me of the old novels that talked about hard and soft liquor or something like that. I think it was Hemingway (I could be wrong) who was advised to curtail his boozing - so he did - he switched to wine.

I loved wine and I loved Gin and Tonics. I preferred vodka when travelling and I have been known to drink anything alcoholic on offer with the exception of creme de menthe (sorry Byrdie!). I Even drank beer - which I did not like. When I was trying to control my drinking I stuck to wine - I knew the AL content, the glass size and so on. It didn't make one iota of difference - I was abusing it and myself.

I don't think there is a difference between an alkie and a wino. You don't have to use the label alkie if you don't want and the jury is still out about physical/habitual dependence etc.

**lifechange** · March 16, 2014, 01:57 AM

Alcoholic or wino? And is there a difference?

Hi Moss!!
I am really glad you posted this last night--I think it's been one of the most important tools I've had access to. To come on here and write it out. It got you through a craving and you got some great responses. There is so much I don't understand about addiction. I understand it, but I don't. I only know from my experience, that I got to the point where I would drink anything to escape from discomfort, lonliness, sadness. I also drank when I was happy and on top of the world. I definitely tried out (all!) other sorts of al to try and find something I might be able to control. It's (not) funny what we can learn to drink -- After practicing with something that had at one time made me gag, I didn't love it, but I could tolerate it. I don't know about the reasons for our preferences for a certain type of al. I would say it could be the same as how we all have our ice cream preferences. In this way perhaps we differ-- but when it comes to the addiction to the actual AL, I would have to agree with Byrdie-- a rose is a rose. :heart:

**lifechange** · March 16, 2014, 02:02 AM

Alcoholic or wino? And is there a difference?

Moss, here is part of a message someone sent to me a while ago. It really helped me to change my way of thinking-- HEROIC is what we are, dear!!

----I, too, struggled for years and years with trying to control my drinking. I really beat myself up for 'failing.' As if we need more crap to deal with on top of the addiction.

Back then, quitting 'for good' was not even an option I would consider. There were so many negatives and so much stigma that I associated with that. Not only would I have to 'give up' ALL drinking - even the 'one or two' (mythical) glasses of wine, but I would also have to wear the label 'alcoholic' and deal with having an 'incurable' disease. AND, as if all that wasn't enough, I would have to go to meetings, figure out all my faults and flaws and tell everyone about them and THEN have to worry that I could get sucked right back into addiction if I DON'T do all those things just so. Forever and ever.

Well. As it turns out. I didn't give up alcohol. I gave up an addictive toxin and gained my freedom and my health and my life back. I absolutely refuse to label myself - or anyone else who has gotten free - as an 'alcoholic.' In fact, the only -ic suffix I would add in describing those who find their way out of addiction is HEROic.

You know what helped me THE most in my final, forever quit? I finally understood the facts about alcohol - the undeniable and unalterable facts about how each and every drink damages the brain. We are dealing with a substance that is a known toxin and carcinogen and is classified as a drug. Every drink crosses the blood-brain barrier almost instantaneously and immediately begins altering the delicate chemical balance of the very organ that controls everything we do. Knowing this and accepting this made it possible for me to make the decision and commitment to take drinking (and smoking) off the table once and for all and forever. It was life or death. I wanted life. You do, too...it's your name, afterall!---
:l:l:l:l:l:l

**available** · March 16, 2014, 02:44 AM

Alcoholic or wino? And is there a difference?

Oh Molly who has been hassling you, your opinions are always welcome. I totally agree with what you say. If wine came as "rubbing alcohol" i would have drank it, it would have just been a different name really. I totally agree al is a progressive disease and i know i stopped before i got to the other stage and maybe that is what the majority of people on MWO got too also. We realised if we did not get a grip on stopping then god help us and i can only imagine what the next stage would have been. Very good post Molly.

**Stargazerlily** · March 16, 2014, 05:33 AM

Alcoholic or wino? And is there a difference?

Great thread! Cunning, baffling, powerful, that is what I thought when first read this thread. Wine, beer, 1and a half shots, all have the same amount of alcohol. Period. We have allergies to alcohol, if we have even one drink of anything, we set ourselves up to losing control and getting wasted, hurting ourselves and others, starting the pattern of drink, drunk, sick, recover, drink, drunk, sick, withdrawal, until we either quit or die. I have had the same thoughts in the past: I'll only drink _____. It never works. It is just a problem with alcohol, I hate the word alcoholic too. An addiction is an addiction. Using a substance, food, or activity to the point of problems in relationships, health, finances, legal issues. No matter what it is, if it causes problems it needs to be addressed. Love this forum, we can talk about anything. :h

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