The Anonymous People

[lucky 2.0]

I just watched The Anonymous People on Netflix but I think you can also find it free on the web. It was very thought provoking and I highly recommend it.

THE ANONYMOUS PEOPLE IS A FEATURE DOCUMENTARY FILM about the over 23 million Americans living in long-term recovery from alcohol and other drug addiction. Deeply entrenched social stigma have kept recovery voices silent and faces hidden for decades. The vacuum has been filled with sensational mass media depictions of people with addiction that perpetuate a lurid fascination with the dysfunctional side of what is a preventable and treatable health condition. Just like women with breast cancer, or people with HIV/AIDS, a grass roots social justice movement is emerging. Courageous addiction recovery advocates have come out of the shadows and are organizing to end discrimination and move toward recovery-based solutions.

The moving story of The Anonymous People is told through the faces and voices of citizens, leaders, volunteers, corporate executives, public figures, and celebrities who are laying it all on the line to save the lives of others just like them. This passionate new public recovery movement aims to transform public opinion, engage communities and elected officials, and finally shift problematic policy toward lasting solutions.

[Foxy]

The Anonymous People

That's worth watching and sounds interesting i'll try get it on utube as I don't have Netflix. Thanks for sharing.

[Pinecone]

The Anonymous People

Thank you for the recommendation! I'll check it out. It sounds very interesting.

[Alky]

The Anonymous People

lucky 2.0;1687476 wrote: The vacuum has been filled with sensational mass media depictions of people with addiction that perpetuate a lurid fascination with the dysfunctional side of what is a preventable and treatable health condition.

You make an excellent point. I was so happy when A&E network's show "Intervention" was cancelled. In my opinion, the show did everything to portray the addict in the worst possible light. The most blatant example would be exaggerating claims. The subject of one show supposedly consumed "up to a gallon of vodka a day." Running the numbers through a BAC calculator, a gallon of vodka in a 24 hours period results in a BAC of over 1, an amount that would likely kill even the most hardened alcoholic. I also felt their attempts to make the addict sympathetic (focusing, for example on an idyllic childhood or professional successes) actually made the addict less sympathetic. Anecdotally, the result in the minds of some viewers were, "They had such a great life. Where did they go wrong?" And their subjects were almost always the down-and-out addict close to rock bottom. What about the homeowning white-collar professional living in the suburbs that's just barely hanging on by his/her fingernails? Doesn't make for good ratings, I guess.

Another good documentary is "Lipstick and Liquor," that profiles four educated, successful suburban women who are alcoholics, but do not fit most peoples' stereotype of an alcoholic. I streamed it on Amazon (free to Prime subscribers).

Thanks for the tip about Anonymous People, Lucky. I'll probably watch it this week.

[lucky 2.0]

The Anonymous People

I just re-read what I cut and pasted about the movie and what jumped out @ me were the words health condition. The word disease to describe addiction has always really, really bothered me. And yes, I do understand disease is dis-ease. I woke up thinking about those in recovery (and the movie really emphasizes LONG TERM recovery) often say their addiction was the best thing that happened to them and give reasons. If society can celebrate the return to health for addicts and not focus on the shame, I can understand why some would believe it led them to a better place. Of course it does. Physical health improves, mental health improves, job performance improves, financial stability improves, relationships with self improves, and relationships with others improve. Often there is a spiritual awakening which is only a good thing. You can tell this movie really impressed me if I woke up with more to say about it!

I will check out Lipstick and Liquor. The title reminds me of Lipstick Lesbians! And that reminds me of Alex and Piper in Orange is the New Black!

[guapo]

The Anonymous People

Still have no idea why it is referred to as a disease.

It is obviously a problem overusing a harmful substance, and the consequences thereof, but the disease classification suggests that it is a problem from the get-go, before you ever even drink any alcohol.

How can it be a disease if you don't do it anymore?

That's all, I think there are other better more positive ways to look at it, especially if you have controlled your intake and have found that the power to control it comes from within you, not from anyone else.

Just my opinion, and I doubt that will be well received here, but terms like disease and recovery are uniformly negative, and I don't see how that helps people feel better about themselves.

Why not just say I had a problem with my usage, and now I don't, so let's just leave it at that. Let your actions speak for themselves.

Having been someone who drink too much alcohol, and I'm sure many around me were aware of that, I am not about to tell any of them I am "recovering". Instead I have accepted the fact that I will not do that anymore, and I will let that speak for itself.

[lucky 2.0]

The Anonymous People

guapo,

I could not agree more.

I did just watch Lipstick and Liquor. It was poignant and yet hopeful. The women highlighted were beautiful and had many years living a healthy lifestyle. It showed, they radiated. A few face lifts may have helped also but they were very pretty, and thin. I want to be one of them when I grow up!

Very sad about the story of Julie though- a tragedy in a million ways.

I am so glad I watched it.

[guapo]

The Anonymous People

I also watched the anonymous people, and I agree alcoholism is a stigmatized problem unfortunately. That being said, I sense that many of those speaking were still struggling with alcohol, despite the fact that they had not have had any for a long time.

Twelve-step programs seem to have an overlay of guilt and shame, especially if one should happen to drink absolutely anything at any time , then it is considered a failure, a relapse, and a restart. The one day at a time philosophy assures that each and every day's going to be a struggle of some sort on some level, otherwise why would it be one day at a time.

Being in "in recovery" suggest that you are never " recovered". If someone had chosen to be completely abstinent, why not just say that they decided not to drink alcohol anymore. I'm not sure that identifying yourself as an alcoholic, will ever erase that stigma in the public perception.

This is being written by someone who has certainly drank his share of alcohol, but I won't label myself an alcoholic.

[Alky]

The Anonymous People

guapo;1687762 wrote: Twelve-step programs seem to have an overlay of guilt and shame, especially if one should happen to drink absolutely anything at any time , then it is considered a failure, a relapse, and a restart. The one day at a time philosophy assures that each and every day's going to be a struggle of some sort on some level, otherwise why would it be one day at a time.
Uhhh, I thought "one day at a time" was a key concept in twelve step programs.

Alcoholics Anonymous : Frequently Asked Questions About A.A. History

Oh, that's right, that's because it is.

guapo wrote: Being in "in recovery" suggest that you are never " recovered". If someone had chosen to be completely abstinent, why not just say that they decided not to drink alcohol anymore. I'm not sure that identifying yourself as an alcoholic, will ever erase that stigma in the public perception.

Uhhh, again, doesn't the word anonymous imply that it's not necessary to publicly identify yourself as an alcoholic? Furthermore, as far as recovery being a permanent condition goes, let's see how "recovered" an alcoholic is after a drink. If you're ok after a drink, congratulations, you are now officially a moderate drinker. Not saying it's impossible. My dad in his retirement managed to drink moderately after 40+ years of sobriety. Unlikely, but not impossible. I personally would rather err on the side of caution and make sure that alcohol stays irrelevant in my life.

I'm sorry if this post rubs some people the wrong way, but I am sick of people dumping on and posting misinformation AA who have clearly never been because of some prejudice, or "half-assed it," as my therapist once said, and didn't take it seriously enough to try and work the steps and consequently got nothing out of it (I was one of those, too). Ok, maybe AA isn't for you. That's for you alone to decide. But the fact that it has worked for so many people worldwide should at least stop and give one pause that maybe there is something to it.

[Alky]

The Anonymous People

guapo;1687762 wrote: Twelve-step programs seem to have an overlay of guilt and shame, especially if one should happen to drink absolutely anything at any time , then it is considered a failure, a relapse, and a restart. The one day at a time philosophy assures that each and every day's going to be a struggle of some sort on some level, otherwise why would it be one day at a time.
Because when people (like I used to be) start to feel better after a nasty detox, with the passing of time, it's easy to forget just how unpleasant the detox was, and the memory of pronouncements like "I'M NEVER DRINKING AGAIN," is replaced by "oh come on, just one won't hurt…" That is the value in taking it one day at a time. This battle is won day by day, hour by hour, minute by minute.

guapo wrote: Being in "in recovery" suggest that you are never " recovered". If someone had chosen to be completely abstinent, why not just say that they decided not to drink alcohol anymore. I'm not sure that identifying yourself as an alcoholic, will ever erase that stigma in the public perception.

Uhhh, again, doesn't the word anonymous imply that it's not necessary to publicly identify yourself as an alcoholic? Furthermore, as far as recovery being a permanent condition goes, let's see how "recovered" an alcoholic is after a drink. If you're ok after a drink, congratulations, you are now officially a moderate drinker. Not saying it's impossible. My dad in his retirement managed to drink moderately after 40+ years of sobriety. Unlikely, but not impossible. I personally would rather err on the side of caution and make sure that alcohol stays irrelevant in my life.

I'm sorry if this post rubs some people the wrong way, but I am sick of people dumping on and posting misinformation AA who have clearly never been because of some prejudice, or "half-assed it," as my therapist once said, and didn't take it seriously enough to try and work the steps and consequently got nothing out of it (I was one of those, too). Ok, maybe AA isn't for you. That's for you alone to decide. But the fact that it has worked for so many people worldwide should at least stop and give one pause that maybe there is something to it.

[Pavati]

The Anonymous People

Hi, All:

Thanks for the recommendations. I haven't watched the Anonymous People yet, but I did watch Lipstick and Liquor. I'm with you Lucky - I want to be one of them when I grow up (at least have a big house and a nice yard). There was a lot of hope and inspiration - and one BIG message that I have heard over and over - from long term sober people in AA and not in AA. Staying sober TAKES WORK. Complacency seems to be the first step towards relapse - as you say, Alky - "I wasn't THAT bad" starts to creep in.

There is a trend away from using the word "alcoholism" toward "addicted to alcohol" that I can see - but I think that is just words for people who aren't - to try to get outward public support for sobriety. I am 100% anonymous here on MWO (except for the bot that has my email address), and I don't think that I would be sober yet if I had to walk into a meeting full of people - not anonymous enough! I can see the importance of anonymity, and I can also see the value in working toward a society where people don't feel they have to be anonymous about an addiction.

Really, whatever works is what I believe in!

Thanks for the recommendations, Lucky and Alky.

[sunshine_gg]

The Anonymous People

Thank you for this, Lucky.

I just watched the movie and thought it was well worth watching.

Until fairly recently, I also had a distaste for the word 'disease'. I thought it a bit of a cop-out.
However, after my dad started drinking after 27 years sober and his death within 9 months... I've changed my view. Also... looking back... I don't think I was ever a 'normal' drinker. Even the first few times drinking, I wanted just a little more than everyone else. I'm content now to accept that I have a disease (or condition, if you will) which is not curable but manageable.

Alky, I'm with you. AA may not be for everyone. So far, it's working for me and I'm sticking with it.

[Byrdlady]

The Anonymous People

guapo;1687707 wrote: Still have no idea why it is referred to as a disease.

It is obviously a problem overusing a harmful substance, and the consequences thereof, but the disease classification suggests that it is a problem from the get-go, before you ever even drink any alcohol.

How can it be a disease if you don't do it anymore?

That's all, I think there are other better more positive ways to look at it, especially if you have controlled your intake and have found that the power to control it comes from within you, not from anyone else.

Just my opinion, and I doubt that will be well received here, but terms like disease and recovery are uniformly negative, and I don't see how that helps people feel better about themselves.

Why not just say I had a problem with my usage, and now I don't, so let's just leave it at that. Let your actions speak for themselves.

Having been someone who drink too much alcohol, and I'm sure many around me were aware of that, I am not about to tell any of them I am "recovering". Instead I have accepted the fact that I will not do that anymore, and I will let that speak for itself.

Guapo,
I have been seeing your posts around the boards for a while now. Please correct me if Im wrong, haven't you been able to reduce your intake by the use of Naltrexone?
How were you able to control your drinking BEFORE you started taking it, and how long did it take for it to become effective? You see, in your posts around the boards, you neglect to include the fact that you are taking a very high powered drug to help prevent you from abusing AL. You make most people on this board feel as if they are just weak minions to AL with no self control. How much self control did you have or DO you have without Naltrenone? Your posts leave out a very important piece of information.

If you dont have a disease, you sure are taking a powerful drug to enable you to be able to control your alcohol intake. If you have ever seen the results of brain, liver, and other organs as a result of alcohol, it sure looks like a disease to me.

I am thrilled that you are having success with meds, but the way you tout your self control is irresponsible, especially when you come into the newbies nest and say its no big deal to have an occasional drink. Some of us are in the fight of our lives and your words are toxic to a brain just looking for an excuse. I hope your luck continues with this drug as its long term use and side effects is not known. Before you bash those of us who wish to get sober and NOT partake of Al at all, maybe you should try it yourself....without drugs, and see how you do. Its not easy. It is not just a matter of self control as you imply. To me, long term moderation means longer than 2 or three months. I wonder what your results will be in 5 years? After all, the brain circuits are all still there, they know where you've been. The addiction will always be there. AL is just not worth going thru all those gyrations. I do not wish to become a better or more effective drinker, I dont need AL to live or have a good time. The drug you are taking to undo the effects of what AL does seems like a short term fix to a long term problem. Good luck with that. Byrdie

[guapo]

The Anonymous People

Since being Fervently rebuffed for offering any opinion whatsoever in the other abstinent thread, I also will not post anything here again

Apparently my thoughts have angered and dismayed many folks, so I have no wish to say anything further.

The mindset here is very clear, and I will respect that.

[RingingCedars]

The Anonymous People

sunshine_gg;1688827 wrote: Thank you for this, Lucky.

I just watched the movie and thought it was well worth watching.

Until fairly recently, I also had a distaste for the word 'disease'. I thought it a bit of a cop-out.
However, after my dad started drinking after 27 years sober and his death within 9 months... I've changed my view. Also... looking back... I don't think I was ever a 'normal' drinker. Even the first few times drinking, I wanted just a little more than everyone else. I'm content now to accept that I have a disease (or condition, if you will) which is not curable but manageable.

Alky, I'm with you. AA may not be for everyone. So far, it's working for me and I'm sticking with it.

Call it trouble .... own it...turn from that way...other than that what she said.:goodjob: