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**NotHappyHourHappyLife** · December 25, 2014, 07:23 PM

Hi Mossy... first, a gentle cyber hug, because if I squeeze you too hard, you will vomit a shit sandwich on me!

(I hope that made you at least smile.)

In the order that you dealt out your sandwiches, here are my two cents:.
1. Your son. I don't know how old he is, but mine is 19. In some ways, he's very mature and acts much older, and people complement us all the time on what a nice young man he is. BUT over the last 6 weeks, I've realized that he has a lot of growing up to do, and that he sure knows how to smear the shit into the sandwich. Without hijacking your thread, I've realized that my son is "very sensitive" when it comes to how HE feels, and is clueless when it comes to others' feelings. He will say things that he thinks are funny, but are shallow and rude. He will ask us to do things to support him, and we do... but when we ask him to do something as "part of the family"... he always has a reason to say no. One part of me thinks, "why bother asking anymore" He's just going to say no!" and then the grown up/mother part of my brain chimes in and says, "Ask him, expect him to say no. He is your son and you are the grown up". So I ask, and he says no, and my immature brain sticks her tongue out at the mother brain and screams, "I TOLD YOU SO!!!".

So Mossy, when this happens to you, and you KNOW it will... let your son know that it hurts your feeling, but then, both you and I have to practice in truly letting it GO. Not mentally recording the date, and the instance, and the he-said/she-said diatribe that is SO easy to get caught up in. Just let it GO.

My oldest daughter is 27 and is the mother of a beautiful 2 year old baby. Today when we talked, she finally understood why, at Christmas, I never seemed anxious to open my gifts. The joy in Christmas for me is to watch my children's eyes... even the know-it-all 19 year old's eyes today- to see their surprise, their happiness. It only took her 27 years (well, maybe I should say the last 10 years)... to finally understand her mom. That feeling was the best gift today.

As for point 2.... the dynamics, Mossy Ross, are so beyond your control, that the best thing you can do is CRY. Understand that your brother's choices are why he's where he is. His girlfriend, like her or not, is also his choice. If you want to do what's in your heart... instead of screaming at the girl, go tattle to the nurses. Trust me, they will do the dirty work for you.

Sweet hugs, Mossy. Patty

**paulywogg** · December 25, 2014, 07:25 PM

Oh MR,vent away! Sounds like alot of stuff going on,maybe your brother figures he's too far gone anyways and doesn't care anymore, who knows what's going on in his mind right now, and your son,well seems a lot of guys are like that,not as sentimental as girls when it comes to family, just have your cry,get it out and realize you are working on you right now,the heck with everything else

**abcowboy** · December 25, 2014, 07:44 PM

Moss, I know we don't see eye to eye on a lot of things, but I do respect your opinion and the support you so honestly and heartfully give! I'm really happy you refuse to drink with what is happening in your life. If I could give you a hug and make it all go away, I would! But unfortunately it's not as easy as that. The only thing I can say is that I think it's time for you to be selfish. Stop worrying so much about the others and work on you. You can't fix anything in their lives, you can't make them change, but you can love them, pray for them, but let go and start loving yourself first. One of the sayings I learned in AA is, let go and let God. I do that on many occasions now. Sometimes things don't go the way we want or think they should, but we need to work through those situations to the best of our ability whether we like the outcome or not. Remember, the most important person in your life is you, and you need to love and nuture her first! The rest can wait... we are here for you always, no matter what...

Merry Christmas..... abcowboy

**available** · December 25, 2014, 08:06 PM

MR hey lovely lady. I think with your son the main issue is him really believing that you wont drink again. My daughter backed right away from me before i stopped drinking and has slowly come to believe that i am serious in not drinking and that i wont drink anymore. Last year she did not visit on xmas day but left it till boxing day. i was so hurt but so was she. fast forward a year and she could not wait to be here for xmas. We have opened up a lot this last year, we still are not quite there yet and it is a slow process. Now i get how much hurt i caused her and us healing together wont be fixed because i stopped drinking, i am proving that i wont drink ever again. She is 27 and has seen a lot over the years. Mind you if i have anything to say i will say it, i am her mother! I have such great admiration for you MR. Always be honest with him and in time he may come around and if not then give him hell as he deserves it.

I so cant believe that your brothers girlfriend would give him fucking alcohol. Is she totally insane! And your brother, well i will call him a twat! There is not much you can do i am afraid other than tell the drs what is going on. That makes me so mad that he can not only put himself through that but you also. Maybe his will to live is not there anymore. Life is so unfair sometimes MR but just realise that you have given yourself the greatest gift of all and that is sobriety. People may hurt us and stress us and push us to our limits but we never need to drink AT them as then they have won and we are so much stronger than that.

Cybering you the biggest hug.

**little beagle** · December 25, 2014, 09:35 PM

Mossrose :hug: I'm glad you can vent here. And I'm proud of you for not drinkig.

**MossRose** · December 26, 2014, 09:15 AM

Thanks for letting me vent and for all the great advice. I needed to get a good night's sleep and take a step back from my emotions. You all reminded me that I slipped back into a bad habit yesterday. I was trying to fix situations that I have no control over. That is the type of thinking that got me into this mess in the first place. How many times have I posted to others that it takes time to repair trust? Then I behaved like a hypocrite, and got all upset because it isn't happening on my timetable. I guess I still have a bit of work to do. I'm hurt by my son's actions and am glad that I voiced my opinion. But Patty and Ava, thanks for reminding me that I need to be more patient with him. He'll come around, but I can't force it.

Cowboy, your support helped more than you know. No matter our differences of opinion, we both agree that sobriety is the only solution. Thanks for being there. xx

Pauly and LB - good to see both of you, and thanks for listening.

As far as my brother is concerned, I am backing away. I know how this is going to end, but it's his life. He may be going home today, and I doubt that will last more than a few weeks before he's right back in the hospital - worse for wear. I need to conserve my strength.

I feel very emotionally shaky today. Odd, because I was doing very well. I think I need to find a new counselor. My old one was great, but we have gone as far as we can together. I need someone who will call me on my BS thinking.

Have a good day all.

**NotHappyHourHappyLife** · December 26, 2014, 10:21 AM

Mossy... Everything today IS going to be amazing. :heartbeat:

**Spiritfree** · December 26, 2014, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by MossRose View Post

This is going to be a rambling post. Not because I'm drunk, but because I can't get my mind straightened out. So I will post here because I need to vent. Mostly, because I MUST NOT drink.

First up - my youngest son. I love him. Some folks here know that he is the main reason I joined MWO and quit drinking in the first place. But he has broken my heart again. He has done FIVE Christmases with his GF's family this season.

Last up - my brother. I have watched him self-destruct his whole adult life - drugs, alcohol, cigarettes - you name it, he's done it, to an extreme. So I know this secret, and I can't tell anyone in the family, because it won't make it difference. It will only make things worse for those I love. I want them to keep their fantasy because there's really no point in an intervention at this point. He has Stage 4, aggressive cancer!! But I'm pissed. I'm done. I need to back away.

Hi Moss -I just read your post and wanted to a add few thoughts. I had/have similar experiences in both areas that you mention.

First, my sons, holidays, and girls. Again, Moss, this is just my experience and may have nothing to with your experience. My youngest just turned 21 and the oldest is 26. They are all very different and in some ways they are alike. The oldest is now married, and my wife and I feel awesome if we here from him once or twice a week. Even in his mid-late teens, when he had a girl friend, he was over at 'their' house during holidays. My other two are not quite as passionate about being with their gf-s during holidays, but it does happen. I use to complain and get my feelings hurt about their disregard for me during holidays - that is until one particular day. That day, wife reminded me of me and how I was always with her and her family during holidays. Ok, since that particular point in time -in looking back at myself, I totally changed my perspective. I always did and will love my mom, and I guess at the time that I was dating my future wife, I just did not really consider her feelings of me needing to be with her/them during the holidays. At the ripe ole age of 16 and for years after, it was all about me and girls. But I always knew that I could call mom when things got tough and she was always there when I did.

Next -my older brother. My older brother died when he was 39 from his addictions. The most regretful part for me was and is that I had disowned him because of his drug/alcohol actions. He died -alone- in a hospital as a result of drug-induced cardiac failure. I think that my mom and dad both knew that he had a drug problem, so there really was no need in discussing it. I guess it was a family secret. Every one knew -we just did not discuss it. I am sorry to hear that your brother is at stage 4-cancer. It sounds like the cancer is the bigger issue of all. I am glad you are able to be there for him.

Peace to ya Moss -awesome on not drinking!

**MossRose** · December 26, 2014, 12:57 PM

Wow, Spirit, thank you!! I realize that my son is crazy about his girlfriend. She is his world, and I need to accept my new place in the scheme of things. I am proud that my son has grown into a man who can sustain a healthy, loving relationship. Plus, you really made me stop and think when you mentioned spending holidays with your wife's family. You got me there. My ex and I spent most holidays with my family. Ouch!! Time for me to start looking at things differently. I need to continue fixing my lifem and not get so sidetracked by the silly things that don't really matter that much. I will invite them to dinner next week. We will have a better time if we can spend it together without the stress of the season.

I am so sorry to hear about your brother. It seems that many of us here have experienced something similar with a close family member. It's hard to believe that after seeing it, up close and personal, we still went on to develop drinking problems of our own. I won't abandon my brother, but I do need to take a step back. I just talked to my mom and was shocked to find out that she knows. She didn't want to tell me because she was afraid I would be upset. My dad went home yesterday and told her what he also suspected. So, we were all keeping the same secret from each other. Oh my!! So now the truth is out in the open - something my family is really bad at - but I feel like a weight is lifted off my shoulders. We are resigned to the fact that AL won. My mom lost her dad very young to alcoholism so she is no stranger to what addiction does to families. I am so thankful that I am no longer putting her through hell. She deserves some peace in this life.

I can never thank you enough for reaching out. Your advice was spot on.

**Rusty** · December 26, 2014, 02:45 PM

Mossy, I so wish I could give you a massive hug. Everyone who has responded to your post has given you excellent advice. Now here are my two cents. ;-) Isn't your youngest son the one you gave money to so he could go to an event, while you were afraid you wouldn't be able to buy groceries that week? IMHO, FIVE Christmases is WAYYY too much. You should not have been an afterthought, and in my opinion, that was unacceptable behavior. He was being very selfish in that he should have put you FIRST and the girlfriend SECOND. That is what my nieces and nephews do with their girlfriends/boyfriends My sister's children and my brothers' children put their parents first, as well as their grandmother (my mother) and their favorite aunt (me). We are never an afterthought. You had a right to be hurt, and I am glad you were honest, told him "no thank you" and quietly had a good cry. You handled it just great, and I know that took a lot of guts, and an indomitable amount of strength not to drown your sorrow in booze. GREAT JOB!!

I don't know that I would be so quick to invite your son and his girlfriend to dinner. Do you remember you and I had this conversation a while back, where I suggested that you distance yourself just a bit so that you wouldn't seem so needy to your children? I am giving you that advice now, dear friend and neighbor. Your son has set boundaries for himself due to your drinking, and you might want to set boundaries for yourself when it comes to his selfish behavior, just to protect yourself from getting hurt.

When I decided to address my drinking problem, I got myself busy doing other things, (home improvement projects, volunteering, etc.) #1 to keep from thinking about AL, but #2, to show my family that AL had ceased overtaking my life. By doing this, they (my siblings, mom, in-laws, and little nieces and nephews) could see that I was not desperate for their attention, and I became a much more attractive and enjoyable person that they wanted to be around, just because I was not as needy. Your son will step on you less the stronger you appear to be, and feel. One of my friends has been sober for almost 13 years, but she has an abrasive personality with absolutely no filter between her brain and her mouth. She has hurt my feelings and pissed me off on MANY occasions. When she would see me completely wasted, she would say mean things to me. Because I was drunk several times we got together, I never had the guts or the clear head to fire back at her. Now she sees that I am a much stronger and nastier (when I have to be) since I've been sober, and she does not dare mess with me because I will rip her to shreds. I have distanced myself from her as well, and I will tell you, our relationship is better than ever because I hinted that I really did not need her toxic personality in my life, and I would be just fine without her. Ooohhh is she sucking up to me now. LOL.

I am so sorry to hear about your brother's deteriorating condition (BIG HUG), and even though he is gravely ill, he is still addicted to AL, and he was probably badgering his GF to get him some booze because he's thinking, "I have Stage 4 cancer, why stop now....as if quitting drinking is going to help me beat this horrible disease!" I have known a few alcoholics (family and friends) who have done the exact thing your brother's girlfriend did. In my family, my alcoholic aunts' husbands or family members provided them with booze because it was easier to comply than to resist and get into a fight about it with them. I am not surprised at all that your parents knew what your brother was doing....it was the same in my family. My aunt's husband (the consistent enabler)children, siblings, and mother all knew about her alcoholism but would not speak of it until after she died of cancer (caused by AL and cigarettes). You are very wise to take a step back and protect yourself. I have struggled with being co-dependent, as you have, but we are both working on it, right??? :-). Good thing that you and your parents have spotted the elephant in the room, and can now talk about it openly. Maybe now you can heal.

Wow, that was a mouthful!!! Please know that I am here for you, and I am sooooo proud of your sobriety.

I miss your sweet PMs. ;-)

Love and hugs,

Rusty

**Spiritfree** · December 26, 2014, 06:46 PM

Moss -first things first. You will NEVER regret leaving your brother's side -no matter how bad he gets or why he got there. I am so glad you are choosing to stay by him -regardless. And next, I do hope that you continue to find that there is a bond between a son and a mom that can NEVER be broken -regardless of what it may feel or seem like at any particular point in time. This, I know to be a fact 95% of the time.

**See the Light** · December 27, 2014, 10:57 AM

MR- Sorry to hear of your family struggles. It is a good thing to come here to vent, but I do hope your son does give you the time and attention you deserve and your brother finds peace in his time of duress. Best holiday wishes to you and yours.

**red67** · December 27, 2014, 11:47 AM

Moss, I hope you are feeling better today. When it comes to the holidays we always try to communicate everything in advance as to when everyone in the family can get together. It is not always on the actual holiday because we try to come up with a date that works for everyone. Your son is young, when I was that age I certainly did not appreciate what family means. It took until I was late into my 20's to really understand (after I had been screwed over several times by friends/boyfriends). I think the dinner next week is a good idea, I would certainly do it and maybe have him and his girlfriend come over to help you make it. I would make a whole evening of it. He will learn to appreciate you, just give him time and definitely open up the lines of communication when it comes to what you expect of him.

I think you brother is still drinking because he knows it is probably the end anyway.
I have honestly thought if I had end stage cancer I would probably go back to drinking (and I have been sober almost 4 years now). Love and just be there for him.

Take care and I hope you have a wonderful dinner with your son.

**available** · December 27, 2014, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by MossRose View Post

. My mom lost her dad very young to alcoholism so she is no stranger to what addiction does to families. I am so thankful that I am no longer putting her through hell. She deserves some peace in this life.

My mum MR is so proud of me for not drinking. She lost her son to al addiction too and i have put her through hell with mine. Today i fly to spend nearly a week with her. I just want to cry when i know what she went through with my brother and it was staring her in the face again with me. She is excited and so am i!

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