is PAWS real?

[paulywogg]

Hello my friends, I've heard conflicting opinions on this,also researching it some articles say yes it happens and can last for 2 years, other articles state that it's a rare thing, hmmm,about a year ago Kuya popped in on the daily and thread, and she mentioned it and said she could feel her brain healing in jumps and those were the harder times,I think it's really,maybe that's what causes the F-it's sometimes? What's your guys's opinion on this?and if you experience it,how do you cope? Thank you for any responses in advance

[paulywogg]

Damn auto correct!! I hope you can understand what I mean,I don't have time to edit

[summerglow]

I believe that PAWS exists, and because it was so bad for me, I thought I might as well start drinking again.....and I did.........the rest is history!

Here I am doing TSM with Naltrexone feeling quite good really and sleeping which I never did......but PAWS does exist in my opinion. I am not a doctor though. All I know is from experience.....

Summerglow

[paulywogg]

Seriously?one person responds,thank you Summerglow,I just don't understand how between 30 and 50 days is so rough,it's almost like the first week to me,guess we're the only 2

[Byrdlady]

Hey Pauly, I am just seeing this. I haven't read the blurb on PAWS in a while, but I have always had some issues with the concept. I SHOULD go back and read the definition before responding, but alas....I think there is something to it, but I have thought that people used it as an excuse to relapse.
When people read about it, they feel doomed to fail and that doesnt have to he the case. It gives the alkie something to blame, and that is sometimes all it takes. There are ,FOR SURE, some flat spots along the way, but the advice I got and followed was FAKE it til you make it. I did, and it passed!
That is my opnion of the PAWS theory. Great question!! Byrdie

[Lavande]

Just seeing this too pauly!

I think it's real & I think we all experience it to some degree. I personally think this is where you need to put a push on changing your thinking. If you are still hanging on to deprivation thinking you are not healing.
When you push your thinking towards real gratitude things begin to change. It takes time to go through this process, you can't rush it, you have to work your way thru. Of course faking it until you make it helps a lot too

My point is - just hang in there & focus on the gift you've given yourself & your loved one. Imagine your life in a year, in five years & work your way toward that. I did it & I know you can too

[paulywogg]

Thank you Byrdie and Lav,I do think it's just part of the process too,NOT an excuse to drink at all,but it feels like early withdrawal to me,every timethey say,if you accept it and realize it goes as quick as it comes, were able to deal better

[Pie]

Hi Pauly, Following I've copied an explanation of PAWS for anyone reading who may not be familiar with the acronym. It's from this website: whatmesober.com/paws/


Many of the problems associated with early sobriety do not stem directly from drugs and alcohol. Instead, they are associated with physical and psychological changes that occur after the chemicals have left our bodies. When we use, our brains actually undergo physical change to cope with the presence of the drug in our body. When we remove the drugs, our brains then demand more to satisfy the desire caused by the changes. The extreme symptoms that we experience immediately after we stop using are called “acute withdrawal.”

Acute withdrawal, unfortunately, is not the whole story. Our bodies make initial adjustments to the absence of the drug, and the major symptoms ease up. However, the changes that have occurred in our brains need time to revert back to their original state (to the extent that they ever do). During the period of time while this is occurring, they can cause a variety of problems known as Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome (PAWS).

All we addicts and alcoholics suffer from damage to our bodies and nervous systems from drug/alcohol use, accidents, and malnutrition. We may also suffer from chronic diseases such as diabetes and hepatitis, and we usually bring to early recovery a broad array of other problems. As one alcoholic put it, “When I got sober, things didn’t get any easier, but they got real …ing clear!”

Recovery causes a great deal of stress. Many addicts and alcoholics never learn to manage stress without alcohol or drug use, or do so only after many attempts at sobriety. Our ability to deal with it depends on our willingness to take care of ourselves and maintain a healthy physical, emotional and spiritual lifestyle. Repairing the damage to our nervous systems usually requires from six months to two years with a healthy program of recovery. PAWS is the cause of most relapse in early recovery.

Symptoms

PAWS symptoms reach a peak from three to six months after we get clean. Any use of drugs or alcohol, even in small quantities or for a short time, will effectively eliminate any improvement gained over that time, as it will keep the brain from healing. There are a variety of symptoms. Not everyone will experience all of them. Here are some of the main ones.

Inability to solve problems

Inability to solve problems leads to lowered self-esteem. We feel embarrassed, incompetent, and “not okay.” Diminished self-esteem and fear of failure lead to living and working problems. These all add to our stress, and the stress further exaggerates the other problems. Six things contribute to this: trouble thinking clearly, emotional overreaction, memory problems, sleep disturbances, physical coordination problems and difficulty managing stress.

Inability to think clearly

Our brain seems to work properly only part of the time. Sometimes our head just feels fuzzy because of the changes that occurred in our brains while we were using. The changes take time to improve. It is also due to the simple fact that we are trying to process a lot more information than we did before. While using, we mainly thought about getting more, using, and turning off our brains. Now we are considering the myriad things necessary to truly live our lives. To begin with, it can be a bit much.

Inability to concentrate

Abstract reasoning suffers, and we find our minds, like a confused cowboy, jumping on its horse and riding off in all directions. Also related to the reasons above.

Rigid, repetitive thinking

Thoughts go around and around in our heads, and we are unable to put them into useful order. We have not yet developed the ability to channel our thoughts and concentrate on one thing at a time.

Memory problems

We may hear something, understand it, and 20 minutes later…it’s gone! This sort of thing complicates our lives in many ways. It upsets supervisors, annoys significant others, and makes us wonder if we’re losing our minds.

With memory problems it is hard to learn new skills and absorb new information. We learn by building on what we have already learned, and memory difficulties can make it very difficult (if not impossible) to do that. Again, these difficulties add to stress, especially if we do not understand what’s happening to us. We may think, “This sucks! I might as well be high.”

Emotional overreaction or numbness *

People with emotional problems in early sobriety tend to over-react. When this overreaction puts more stress on our nervous systems than we can handle, we react by “shutting down” our emotions. We become emotionally numb, unable to feel anything. We may swing from one mood to another. These mood swings may baffle us, seeming to come without any reason, and may even be misdiagnosed as bipolar disorder. If we have developed insulin resistance or diabetes as a result of our drugs and drinking, this can become extreme. (See H.A.L.T. below)

Sleep disturbances

Disturbed sleep is common in recovery. It may last only a short time, or a lifetime. Often, this depends on what we consider to be a problem. If we are night owls who used alcohol or pills to get to sleep in the daytime, we may discover that the only solution is to make significant changes in our schedule, and perhaps even in our occupations. Sleep deprivation stresses the body, prevents our minds from working well, and generally exaggerates any other difficulties we may be experiencing.

We may experience changes in our sleep patterns, sleeping for long periods at a time, or getting sleepy at different times of the day. Although these may persist, we are usually able to adjust to them. The important thing is to be willing to adjust. We may not be able to keep to our old sleeping habits.

Stress

Difficulty managing stress is the most difficult part of post acute withdrawal, and of early recovery in general. Early on, we may not be able to distinguish between low and high stress situations, because for so many years we managed stress by using mood-altering substances.

Worst of all, the other PAWS symptoms become worse when we are under stress, and this causes the stress to increase! There is a direct relationship between elevated stress and the severity of PAWS. Each amplifies the other.

At times of low stress, the symptoms of post acute withdrawal may lessen or even go away completely. When we are well-rested, relaxed, eating properly and getting along well with others, we seem to be fine. It is easy to see how we can get careless at these times, and many a relapse has occurred when things seemed to be going just fine.

Abstinence

Recovery from the damage caused by our addictions requires total abstinence. Abstinence means avoiding drugs and alcohol completely, unless we are under the care of a physician who understands both addictive disease and pharmacology. This specifically includes herbal remedies which, in many cases, are just as powerful and dangerous as prescription drugs.

Understanding and recognizing PAWS symptoms

Because we are addicts and alcoholics, and because repeated relapses will eventually be fatal, we must realize that understanding PAWS is, literally, a matter of life and death. It is absolutely essential that we gain an understanding of post acute withdrawal, be able to recognize its symptoms when they appear, and know what to do about them. We must understand these things well enough that we are able to put them into effect even during periods when our addict instincts are telling us that we don’t want or need to!

We need also to learn about PAWS, and means of controlling it, when our stress levels are low, in order to be able to prevent the symptoms or be able to recognize and manage them if they occur.

[YouKayBee]

I think PAWS does exist but that recovery also involves getting used to the normalities of life. Things hurt, things happen, dealing with things has to be done sober, new ways of living had to be learned and there are natural bad and good times.

[mama bear]

I think it's real, too, Pauly:sad:

[Spiritfree]

Hi Pauly -PAWS -Post Acute Withdrawal is an indisputable scientific fact for those who have/do abuse alcohol. The physical-structural changes that occur in the brain as a result of alcohol abuse -over a prolonged period of time (or any other drug) do not revert back overnight once the person has stopped the substance abuse. Instead, it takes time for the brain to physically re-wire itself. It is during this so called "re-wiring" process that the brain will "remember" certain chemicals that appeared to be beneficial in it is function and existence.

Truly, PAWs is not a debatable topic -it exists. What is just not known is the severity, timing, and solutions (other than to know that it will pass and alcohol will only end up making it worse).

Thanks for bringing this very important topic to light.

[paulywogg]

I've read it's the "markers"30,60,90, all I know is that it's physical, I won't even know what day I'm on and it hits me, no excuses to drink of course, just an overwhelming flooding of stuff

[YouKayBee]

I am very pleased to hear this :thumbsup:

I believe that PAWS exists, and because it was so bad for me, I thought I might as well start drinking again.....and I did.........the rest is history!

Here I am doing TSM with Naltrexone feeling quite good really and sleeping which I never did......but PAWS does exist in my opinion. I am not a doctor though. All I know is from experience.....

Summerglow

[autumn]

Hi All,

Pauly thanks so much for bringing this up, I was just about to start a new thread about it when I found yours. I have just spent all day, (I kid you not) researching it on the net. And in MHO yes it does. And boy oh boy, I wish I had been warned about it a long time ago. It has explained a heck of alot of what has been going on in my head.

Everything that Pie has explained, so wonderfully, has had me sucker-punched with no warning, just a POW have that. Which goes a long way in explaining why I kept relapsing in the past.

It did hit me bad at the 3-6 month stage, (usually about the time I would fail miserably and pick up a drink). The anger, mood swings and irrational dark thoughts were/are really scarey. Poor DH had no idea why I morphed into the she devil over silly things, or just couldn't stop crying and feeling so helpless. The suicidal thoughts rocked me to my core....where the bloody hell did they spring from???

My last episode has just eased off today, after 3 days of hell. Now piecing together the puzzle I can see that this current PAWS episode has been hugely stress induced. To the point where I was having f-it thoughts, including the "I just want to drink to stop this pain".

After reading up on it today, I am now back in my calm space, knowing its all part of my recovery and actually a good thing, (ha bloody ha, try telling my DH that) and my frazzled brain is trying to repair and rewire. So, it might take me another year to get onto an even keel - then so be it. As every day sober is worth the odd glitch. Now I know its just a healing crisis, I can deal with it. Just ride it like the cravings and it too will pass. But boy oh boy, I really thought I was loosing the plot!!!

Neither my AL key worker or AL Councillor (can never spell that word) have mentioned PAWS or forewarned me that it might happen. I want to shout about it from the roof tops as I feel its hugely relevant to how we deal with recovery. It does not effect everyone, thankfully. And it will ease with time and fizzle out (hopefully) after about 2 years. I remember an AA buddy telling me "it takes 2 years for the brain to heal and repair its self". But I never gave it another thought.

For me stress is a huge trigger. And yes I recognize that a huge part of it is learning to live with raw emotions as we rejoin the living. My DH was very grateful to know it had a name and is a 'normal' part of recovery...........I'll remind him of that next time the she-devil is in town. PAWS has explained hugely these freaky glitches. So next time (if) it rears its ugly head, at least I know it will pass.

I can completely understand why people do drink to quell it. Although that will never be the answer as that beastie will be back again on the next quit. And worse. Oh hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I found a wonderful quote today whilst digging around,

"I would rather be a non-drinker with the occasional desire to drink, than a drinker with the constant desire to quit"

Sorry to waffle, but I am all fired up after my light-bulb moment today!!:applouse:

Next time it comes a calling, I'm going to PAWS for thought....:happy2:

[Spiritfree]

HI -Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome is real. Do not let anyone or anything convince you otherwise.

Alcohol abuse (or other drugs) physically change the brain and it takes time and effort to 're-build' the brain.