The Three Principles Discussion Thread

[NoSugar]

Hi friends..
I'm having a really hard time letting go of someone I love, who's been/was a close part of my life for the past year but who I know isn't good for me. I've kept my heart and my mind open "just in case"..even though for the past couple of months he hasn't even given enough of himself to reciprocate a very casual friendship, let alone a close relationship. I know my life would be so much easier, more harmonious, lighter if I could let go. I guess I'm just writing this to get it off my chest.

I'm sorry you're hurting, LC, and hope writing about it lifted a little of the weight.

Since you've been learning how the 3Ps work, I know you're aware that the way you are feeling is not coming from him or anything he does or doesn't do but from how you are thinking about him and his actions and about yourself and what you would like your life to be.

One thing that has been helpful to me is realizing that any (negative) thought and associated feelings that I have over and over probably aren't taking me anywhere I want to go and aren't opening me up to new ideas. We can't control our thoughts, but we do have some say about which ones we pay attention to and act on. When one of those persistent, unwelcome thoughts pops into my head (and they do, over and over!), I obviously notice it but in a way kind of see myself saying, oh yeah, you - I know you. And then let it sort of dissolve instead of re-hashing all the ideas that initial thought leads to. I KNOW the repercussions because I've already gone over them a million times with no effect other than putting my stomach in a knot and making me very sad. Those feelings are telling me that the thoughts I'm paying attention to aren't doing me any good.

[lifechange]

Thanks, both of you..
NS, that was really helpful. Today I was overwhelmed and spent a good part of the day trying (way too hard!) to get myself into a positive state of mind, partly by trying to change the way I think/feel about this situation.. and it didn't really work. But what you said, acknowledging the thoughts and what's going on and then moving on has helped. Giving up the fight to change or ignore... like you've all said before.. not to DO anything.

This is so true.. "" When one of those persistent, unwelcome thoughts pops into my head (and they do, over and over!), I obviously notice it but in a way kind of see myself saying, oh yeah, you - I know you. And then let it sort of dissolve instead of re-hashing all the ideas that initial thought leads to. I KNOW the repercussions because I've already gone over them a million times with no effect other than putting my stomach in a knot and making me very sad. Those feelings are telling me that the thoughts I'm paying attention to aren't doing me any good.""

:love:

[NoSugar]

Nothing really different from his other talks about good ideas to think about: Hope for Mental Health – William Pettit Jr., M.D | Three Principles Conference Towards the end, he speaks specifically about addiction.

[lifechange]

Like I mentioned before, I am really noticing small changes with people/thoughts that come up in daily life.. but I don't get how it's supposed to work when dealing with loss.. or more like being f***** over. as Petit said, I think that this person is probably doing his best with regards to the limitations of his understanding.. I don't think he knows how hurt i feel..I just got an email that was so nonchalant (and about his work) even though our exchanges the past 2 months have been quite heavy. I don't want to react from a negative space.. I don't even know if I should or need to respond. I guess I could just leave it. But I wish I didn't feel so sad and heartbroken. ughh. I feel like I would be ok with it all, also with leaving it, if he could just "get it". But I guess I won't get the closure I'm obviously looking for.

[NoSugar]

I wish I had a good answer for you (and for myself) about feeling hurt when others don't meet our expectations or fulfill our needs. We have a relative who seems to hurt my husband and me quite often. But -- the things that bother him are different than those that bother me. I think he over-reacts to what I see as trivial things and he thinks I twist words around and create new meaning (guilty as charged ). What I can conclude from this is that her words and actions are neutral (and maybe even the best she can do given her life experiences and understanding); what we think about them results in how we feel. It doesn't mean it doesn't still hurt but knowing where it is coming from can lessen the pain a bit and allow it to pass more easily. I have more compassion for her than I used to now that I understand how scary and uncomfortable the world she creates with her thinking must be.

[starty]

Like I mentioned before, I am really noticing small changes with people/thoughts that come up in daily life.. but I don't get how it's supposed to work when dealing with loss.. or more like being f***** over. as Petit said, I think that this person is probably doing his best with regards to the limitations of his understanding.. I don't think he knows how hurt i feel..I just got an email that was so nonchalant (and about his work) even though our exchanges the past 2 months have been quite heavy. I don't want to react from a negative space.. I don't even know if I should or need to respond. I guess I could just leave it. But I wish I didn't feel so sad and heartbroken. ughh. I feel like I would be ok with it all, also with leaving it, if he could just "get it". But I guess I won't get the closure I'm obviously looking for.

Oh LC i have been where you are now. It is a lost battle. I had to learn that I could never ever change anyone elses reactions except my own. If you can, step away. It will break your heart for a while but at least you keep your dignity which is worth so much more than a one sided relationship.

[NoSugar]

I came across a blog post today that really hit home for me:

claredimond | Freedom

The end of self-improvement / self-acceptance / self-development / self-anything. The start of getting real.

I spent decades believing that I had to improve and develop myself. According to where I was working, who I was admiring, what I was watching or reading, how I was being told to be, I knew I had to be stronger, cleverer, wittier, funnier, fitter, better dressed, more ambitious, beautiful, creative, decisive, organised, articulate, charismatic and on and on… There was no end of flaws to correct and a deluge of self help books, self development courses and self denigration to the point of self obsession followed.

And then I came across an understanding that has put an end to all of that for the rest of my life. This understanding is called the Three Principles and it describes how we experience ourselves, our lives, other people, the world through our thoughts. The more aware we are of the creative power of thought the more arbitrary and transient we realise our actual thinking to be. When we live in the awareness of the creative power of thought instead of in the actual thoughts themselves we give space for fresh thinking, inspiration and our natural well-ness. This is how we were designed to flourish.

Through this understanding I have come to realise that, like any thought, a ‘flaw’ or an ‘imperfection’ in ourself or another is simply an opinion at that moment. And that the opinion changes from person to person, moment to moment, mind state to mind state. Porridge can be too hot too cold or just right and all of those judgements depend on whether it is Goldilocks eating it or someone else and what Goldilocks is thinking at that exact moment.

If we think we have flaws – in appearance, character, ability, mentality – then we can set out, as I did, on a lifetime to correct them and the multi-billion dollar self improvement industry gets a new recruit. Or we can set out on a lifetime of pretending ‘self acceptance’ I have this flaw but I’m pretending to myself that it doesn’t exist. And none of it works because the more we try to accept or correct these ‘flaws’, the more real we think they are. The more real we think they are, the more we think we have to do something about them, the more real they seem.

Let’s not underestimate the power of this vicious circle of believing critical thoughts. A person can believe themselves so flawed that the world would be better without them. Or we can believe other people to be so inferior that they deserve disrespect, ill-treatment or even to be killed. A world of violence to self or others is held in thought and can disappear the minute we realise the illusion of it.

If everything we think about ourselves and others is a simply a thought that can change then we are left with the enormous question: what am I?

In the truest possible sense I am nothing. I am not a fixed entity in any way. I am a presence that experiences and lives a life according to what she is believing and thinking at that moment. There is nothing that cannot change from one thought to another. No fixed self, no fixed personality or identity, no fixed character, no flaws, no imperfections. In my clearest state of mind I am witness to the beliefs and thoughts about all those things. I am never those things.

And while I am nothing, I am also everything. Everything I experience about the world, myself and other people is my own unique version. My version has come through the infinity of influences, experiences, thoughts, beliefs, people met, places seen. There is no one on the planet who can experience the world in the way that I experience it or who can create, speak, act and love in the way that I can. None of this would exist without me. I am everything.

Nothing and Everything.

Impossible even to define.

Improve on? Ha!

[NoSugar]

A nice talk about our innate mental health that is still in there, even when it doesn't seem like it:
YouTube

[NoSugar]

A great series of talks for anyone who is suffering job, relationship, health, or other stress:
YouTube
YouTube
YouTube
I hope you see this, Starty. It helped me. xx, NS

And here's 3 more:
YouTube
YouTube

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1B8hSFOJKKI

Sometimes the way one person tells it resonates better than another person. I personally like both these guys although they are very different from one another.

[lifechange]

Love these.. thanks!

[NoSugar]

A talk by Syd Banks about how we're ALL only a thought away from mental health:Three Principle Podcasts | 3PGC
Syd Banks - One Thought Away

[Lost Soul]

Hi all,
NS, after I found a tip on letting thoughts & feelings come & go without fighting them, very helpful with AL cravings before Christmas you kindly offered the link to this thread. Thankyou very much. From reading through I find the three principles to be very beneficial in overcoming alcoholism & addiction, in terms of focusing on positive thoughts & feelings & trying to avoid focus on negative thoughts and feelings that may lead to negative behaviours & indeed may lead to relapse.

However, beyond personal struggles with addiction & alcoholism and coping with day to day personal stresses I disagree with the application of the three principles in the strongest possible way in relation to my own personal experiences.

Sadly not all humans live by the three principals & 'no man/woman is an island. There are serious issues & wrongs in this world worth fighting for. Sometimes taking action in response to other people's reaction/opinion based on nothing else but personal feelings is absolutely the right thing to do.

There is great personal risk and little guarantee of any personal reward doing this. The hope of change for tomorrow for those that come after us is enough.

[NoSugar]

Hi, LostSoul

I'm glad there was some useful material in this thread for you.

My understanding of the 3Ps is that they are a description of how things work - not a directive to take or not take a specific action. I completely agree with you that

There are serious issues & wrongs in this world worth fighting for. Sometimes taking action in response to other people's reaction/opinion based on nothing else but personal feelings is absolutely the right thing to do.

In fact, I was really struggling a couple days ago. I couldn't stop thinking about many things despite the fact that the feelings that came with those thoughts were very bad and almost crippling. But what understanding the 3Ps does is enable me not to be so alarmed about and scared of my feelings. I know where they are coming from (my thoughts at that moment) and that they will pass. I'm not going crazy and won't always feel as bad as I do in that moment.

I went to the march in DC last weekend and had a very positive, uplifting experience. I came home on Sunday, feeling ready to start working on some issues that I think are worth fighting for. And then on Monday, perhaps because I was tired but also because new things I think are wrong emerged, I totally broke down and cried over every little thing for most of the day. But for once instead of fighting it and telling myself I should feel differently and should buck up and what is wrong with me, I just allowed myself to feel what I felt. By evening I'd calmed down and was no longer chasing my panicky, this is the end of the world thoughts. Yesterday my calmer mind has brought some ideas for working on the issues that I think are important. And that feels good :smile:.

[mario]

Only seen this thread, most certainly when I get some time I will go through it, thanks .

[NoSugar]

I think that in time one realises that, no matter how important you believe an issue is it is still only YOUR thinking about that issue. You feel what you think.

The current political situation in the US makes this abundantly clear - reactions to one person and his beliefs/policies range from complete support and enthusiasm to abject fear and disappointment. And, almost astonishingly to me, there are people in the middle who pay no attention to what is going on, don't think about it, and so have no feelings either way.