Does the Al voice ever go?

[autumn]

I just wanted to share this moment that happened to me today. I was meeting up with a group of new girlfriends for lunch at one of their houses. I have only known them all about 6 months so thankfully they have never seen me drinking. But likewise, I had no idea if they liked a glass of wine.
At lunch today I was offered a glass of sparkling wine, before my sensible brain could process the offending glass, the Alkie in me was off! Before I knew it I had mentally talked myself into having just a sip, then ‘one glass won’t hurt, you’ll be fine’!

I was utterly shocked at how quickly that thought snuck under the radar and nearly caught me off guard. Thankfully, I’d rather eat my own head than drink alcohol. But for that one split moment I was a normal drinker and just one wouldn’t count.

[Eloise]

You know autumn I do not think it ever goes away completely.
I really don't, this is why we cannot 'forget' about your addiction and imagine it is just in remission forever.
We gotta continually remind ourselves 'I don't drink, ever, under any circumstances." Alcohol is to be avoided at all costs.

You didn't have the wine though, right? That is ALL that is important, plus it is a good clear reminder.
I agree, it is bizarre that it just doesn't stop.

[available]

For me it is not front and centre in my thoughts that i want a drink when out. I am always prepared in case offered, to say no. I smell my drinks now as there is no way i want to drink. After two and a half years sober when i am offered a drink now i dont wish i could drink al, I dont want al back in my life. I did go to a wedding 6 months ago and i did feel deprived as i could not toast the bride (my niece) but to me protecting my sobriety is what i do 100%. We learn to live without drinking and it does become the norm for us.

[satz123]

For me it is not front and centre in my thoughts that i want a drink when out. I am always prepared in case offered, to say no. I smell my drinks now as there is no way i want to drink. After two and a half years sober when i am offered a drink now i dont wish i could drink al, I dont want al back in my life. I did go to a wedding 6 months ago and i did feel deprived as i could not toast the bride (my niece) but to me protecting my sobriety is what i do 100%. We learn to live without drinking and it does become the norm for us.

Hey Ava. Why could you not toast the bride ?
You mean you couldn't toast her with alcohol ?
I'm sure at least 30% of the guests were toasting the bride with non-alcoholic drinks
Never feel deprived - we are the lucky ones imho :yay:

[stirly-girly]

I don't know that the AL voice ever goes totally and completely away although I have to say that I rarely think about it anymore - I'm at day 239 today. In the first few months, whenever something happened that upset me a lot, one of my first thoughts was that I would love a drink right now. The next thing that crossed my mind was that I really wouldn't. Just like that. The AL thought and then the denial thought. Now, as I mentioned on the Army thread, I have the occasional curiosity thought of what it would be like to have a drink and then immediately the thought that I know what that would lead to comes to mind, and both thoughts are simply gone without me even consciously trying to banish them. AL is simply no longer something that has power over me. Period.

As for Ava's post about toasting at the wedding, I agree with what Satz said. Why could you not have toasted the bride and why did you feel deprived? Our younger son got married last October, just 15 days after I stopped drinking. When we got to the reception hall - open bar with all you could and wanted to drink all night, plus bottles of wine on each table - I introduced myself as "Mother of the Groom", told them that MY cocktail of the evening would be equal parts of soda water, lemonade and pineapple juice and could they please mix me one and bring it to the head table. I asked that my wine glass be filled with sparkling water and that was that. When the glasses of champagne were passed around to toast the bride and groom, I accepted a glass, held it up to salute the bride and groom and then touched it to my lips without sipping any. No one knew the difference and it was none of their business. Did I feel deprived? Not at all. I enjoyed my special cocktail, had a blast at the reception with our family and friends, went to bed stone cold sober and woke up the same way. IMHO, we have to condition our minds to how we look at AL and the deprivation part. What difference does it make whether it's soda water or champagne in your glass that you are toasting with? The important part is that you honour the people being toasted, not what you're drinking.

Now, a bit about the deprivation part, and I know this is getting a bit long-winded but it takes me back to some posts I both read and wrote when I first joined MWO both about deprivation and rewards. I remember reading people saying that they missed the "reward" of having a drink to relax after a long day's work. And that they felt deprived that they couldn't join others who were enjoying a cold beer or cocktail or whatever. Alcohol is a poison, plain and simple. And for us alkies, it is something more than that. It is a poison that will slowly but surely kill us because we don't have the switch to turn things off when we should. IMVHO, we're wired differently. For some reason, the switch that others have that make them stop after a few drinks is missing in us. So when we start to drink, the poison takes over. So what kind of reward are we giving ourselves when we continue to pour poison down our throats and what exactly are we depriving ourselves of when we don't? The "reward" is certain death from some alcohol-related disease if we don't stop. What we are depriving ourselves of is the hell that AL puts us through when we continue to drink and get drunk and let it control our lives and our thoughts. Again, IMVHO, the trick, if you will, is to re-think the whole perception of drinking. Re-think it as an alcoholic or problem drinker, not as a person who can stop after a couple of drinks because they are satisfied and don't want any more. Re-think it to the point of pushing that AL voice away immediately, each and every time it pops up until it occurs less and less and finally, is simply something in our past. It can be done and then you will see the "rewards" of not drinking. The "real" rewards of a sober life where YOU control your thoughts and actions with a clear mind not continually clouded by AL or thoughts of it.

Okay, I'm off the soapbox for today. Wishing you all a great, sober weekend!!!

[Lavande]

It's been 7 years & 2+ months since I quit & I can honestly say that the AL voice rarely makes an appearance anymore. When it does it is more of a whisper that I can barely hear & easily dismiss.
The more you do something the easier it gets. Practice makes perfect, remember that

Lav

[aihfl]

I made a post a while back about the AL voice and thought-stopping techniques. You may find it helpful. My last relapse took place in a matter of seconds, but I've come to understand there are always four distinct stages to a relapse, whether it takes weeks or milliseconds:

https://www.mywayout.org/community/ju...e-process.html

[YouKayBee]

It's been almost 3 years for me, yes I sometimes think "Ooh I could just have a drink", but it's more of a 'test' than a temptation, and I know I just don't want it.

It doesn't feel as if 'it's always there' for me, it's just not part of my life, hasn't been for a long time, and that's it.

What does annoy me is when folk offer me wine, I say no I don't drink, they press, I tell them I was/am alcoholic, they say "aw just one". At that moment I could knock them out with my fist for their utter stupidity, and inconsideration. Anyone wavering could relapse in a second with that sort of comment - and for me it makes me feel I'm not being taken seriously. Alcoholism was serious, I'd definitely be dead by now if I'd not sorted it out, and I'm not playing some sort of little game.

[caysea]

Hi All
There is no voice in my life it is something that has taken on a foreign meaning.The statistics say not many relapse after 5 years. I think that would be a good reference for when it is truly a thing of the past.
I thought I was going to have to white knuckle it forever. That is not the case with time it becomes a nothing in your life.

[Eloise]

well i heard the little alcohol voice again today, it is more like a little devil talking to me though.
it said ' i wish i could drink' ' have a drink' 'wine'
this while i am mopping the floor. what is the correlation? frustration.
i dumped the bucket (again) because i am a terrible cleaner, and i usually have a maid and now i don't . i know save it, 'poor me'. we all have our own little dramas now don't we?
still, i get irritated because i make a bigger mess then it was before i started. my husband cleaned the bathroom during the week and broke a new bottle of hair oil. that said it would have been cheaper to get a maid for the day, make that two days.
i am not good at being frugal and i don't like it. i want to go to work so i can not feel guilty about setting up house as i am accustomed to and i don't care if this sounds like I am a spoilt wretch.

lala. okay, feel better.
that was directed at NO ONE, just sort of needed to put it in writing. i will delete later if anyone decides it hurts their feelings, this is not my intention and i am not seeking sympathy. just venting, nothing more-nothing less.

it really does help me to vent somewhere as now i am able to laugh at my own nonsense.
i just had the ingenious idea to start a thread titled 'I hate cleaning, how about you??!!'

Think I am done now, phf!

[little beagle]

Eloise I am laughing.
I still hear that voice. After 3+ years. Which Is why I still come here and post. Not drinking has become a way of life for me. I truly enjoy my sobriety. I never want to go back to the heartache of drinking.
That voice has become so much background noise. I have learned to tune it out. But I know it's still there. I do not give it the attention it craves so it's just a tiny bee buzzing instead of a giant chainsaw roaring in my face.

[autumn]

Hi All,

Loved reading all of your takes on the AV. And we all agree, it does get easier and weaker with time. I normally respond to it on automatic pilot with a sharp "no way". The thought of drinking is so wrong now, it's liberating! I adore, love being sober. I'd rather eat my own head than have a drink!

But the voice never tries to miss a trick, be it an advert or seeing a wine glass, it’s always there trying to tempt. But yes, it is now sooo weak it's just a whisper.

I would NEVER have the courage to tell a complete stranger that I am an Alcoholic, or in recovery blah blah blah! I'd be mortified. So hats off for having the balls to do so.

It's been a super stressful time of late, but yep, I'm pleased to say that drinking is so far off my radar, that I rarely give it head-space these days. Time is a wonderful healer.

[aihfl]

I've been reading Jack Trimpey's Rational Recovery. The book's primary thesis is on being able to recognize the addictive voice, which then allows you to stop it. While he (and I) don't believe the addictive voice ever disappears forever, "recognition defeats short-term desire and abstinence soon becomes effortless." (RR, p. 34)

Another passage I found useful was: "Your addictive voice must use pronouns to get what it wants and its favorite pronoun is "I." If you hear, "I want a drink," recognize that "it," your addictive voice, wants a drink. When practicing addictive voice recognition, stay in the first person pronoun "I," as in "I am in control. It wants a drink, but I don't drink." This will force the AV to use the second person pronoun "you," and will say something like, "You can handle it. You've been good and you can have just a little, just this once." You are now in control. You have forced your adversary to come to you, using the pronoun "you," arguing, begging and pleading." (p. 37)

I hadn't started reading the book yet when I experienced this phenomenon. I was standing out in my driveway smoking a cigarette after midnight one night, and I started looking wistfully at the convenience store down the block that is open until 2am and I heard the voice: "You know, you can go buy wine until 2am."

I don't share all of Trimpey's views. I don't share his visceral dislike of AA, and I think his dismissal of psychotherapy and psychiatry is glib at best, but it is an enlightening read and recommend it to everyone here.

[autumn]

wow aihfl,

What a revelation, I have just been sitting here thinking about the AV using pronouns. I had always imagined the AV to be like arguing with a stroppy child. And it really is only a spoilt and over indulged addict still trying to get its own way.

I'm quite blown away and now seeing it in the AV in a completely different light. It is a really powerful thinking tool to pass on to others as it is so simple to explain.

I really tried with the AA, but it just wasn't for me. I agree with the basics and hey it really works for some. But their doom-mongering was just not for me. I tried all the meetings in a 15 mile radius, hoping to find one I liked, but no joy.
I just cant accept the doom laden label of always forever more being in recovery, even after 30-40 years.

[aihfl]

Hi autumn, in the past, I have in the past been outspokenly pro-AA. I'm not anti-AA by any means, I think I have just outgrown the program. I'm not sure why, but I just don't feel like I'm white-knuckling it anymore. During my last stay in detox the psychiatrist put me on Celexa, which is a SSRI antidepressant, but there have been trials done where it has reduced interest in drinking in alcoholics. I don't know if it's the medication, if I just suddenly decided enough is enough or what. All I know is something is different, but I'm not sure how or why. AA served its purpose in the beginning - it gave me a support network at a time when I didn't have one. But as RR says, "Form new relationships based on common interests (passions!), not common problems." Trimpey comes out and says exactly what I've said all along, "I could finally see myself as a normal, healthy human being who simply doesn't drink alcohol."