August Army 2016....Gates are open

[NoSugar]

Smoking used to be as promoted and acceptable as alcohol is now but now it's banned almost everywhere. And all smokers (not only addicted ones) are judged pretty harshly. You see the same kind of thing with my pet topic, sugar. The problems associated with consuming too much are finally making it to the popular press and doctors' offices and many people are reconsidering what they put in their mouths. Alcohol is much harder to give up, especially because like you said, Kuya, there probably is some level of dependency going on in many people - this tide might take a long while to turn.

[NoSugar]

There's nothing wrong with a self-proclaimed label that is helpful to you in my opinion, Mr G. It is the labels that limit us or make us feel bad about ourselves that concern me. What amazes me is how many things we think are true about ourselves are entirely made up - by ourselves or others, and we've bought into them.

I'm glad AA is helping you right now. I bet your presence is helping others.

[Guitarista]

There's nothing wrong with a self-proclaimed label that is helpful to you in my opinion, Mr G. It is the labels that limit us or make us feel bad about ourselves that concern me. What amazes me is how many things we think are true about ourselves are entirely made up - by ourselves or others, and we've bought into them.

I'm glad AA is helping you right now. I bet your presence is helping others.

I'm at AA at this stage just to listen and draw motivation, and yep it's helpful. It's interesting when they talk about handing your will over to a higher power e.g. 'let go let god'. I was thinking yesterday when i had some unsettling self worth thoughts (after bumping into an old work colleague who probably doesn't think badly of me at all) which began to lead to unsettling feelings. Then i thought of the 3 P's. Do nothing G man. Let those thoughts be. And sure enough, i didn't dwell on them, got busy doing something else and those thoughts moved on before they could become destructive feelings leading me to drink. The 'do nothing' approach reminded me of the 'let go let god'/hand over your will approach of AA in a way. I reckon there's a connection. The universe somehow provides. p.s. in NA people identify themselves by saying my name's fred and i'm an addict just like AA. Same 12 step program.

[NoSugar]

Thanks for the heads up on NA. They must use the same model.

Your idea that 'let go/let God' is much like 3Ps 'do nothing' makes sense to me. By doing nothing, getting quiet, and calming down, we allow our innate health/wisdom to guide us through new thought. Some of the 3Ps facilitators call that innate wisdom universal mind and some of them call it God.

EDIT: it's great that you didn't follow those negative thoughts yesterday! As you said, they probably weren't true anyway :smile:

[Guitarista]

Yep, interesting connection there SB.

[Mick]

Interesting convo,the bit about the labelling....to someone who is "recovering"be it from drugs alcohol cigs, the descriptive title ie smoker,alcoholic, drug addict, can be harmful,detrimental and also derogatory...taking the alcohol label,yes as an alcoholic,I was devious,not a nice person,in a bad place,each in our own personal depths,...but somewhere inside my fuddled head a voice said no more..I then trod the path that many of us have done,to regain self worth ,respect,control of my life, to get to a stage where I am proud of what I have done,and not ashamed or embarrassed about it..
now would I feel the same way if I was saying to myself..4 years plus down the line..yep great job ,well done but you are still an alcoholic..what kind of negative effect does it have..might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb springs to mind..
there are 2 letters that describe better than anything where you actually are..so if you prefixed alcoholic ,smoker,drug addict with ex..it then gives that peace of mind back to you ...appreciative of the effort you have put in to remaining alcohol free

[Mick]

bang on the money with the language kuya..it makes a massive difference..to me at the time I was an alcoholic plonkie ,every name you can think of and deservedly so,but now when I talk to someone outside the confines of here ,and I bet many folks are the same,the conversation goes along the lines of .."yes ,I used to drink,probably to excess,far more than was good for me,used to cause me problems etc.. in fact you could say I was an alkie.." that word (alkie,which I dont like any more than druggie)is lost in the conversation of drinking too much,excessive etc.. as opposed to the conversation stopper..I was and am an alcoholic..

I also think the concept of being forever 'recovering' can be negative, but it may work better for some to feel they are.

Likewise..there is the danger of frustration ...when is this recovery ever going to end thinking..

again agreed re the remission point...it is more about awareness and control and responsibility...yes I used to drink ,I no longer drink ,ergo the symptoms,scenarios etc are no longer there....as long as I am aware of that and take the appropriate measures to ensure that I dont follow that path,then Robert is your mothers brother..not dissimilar to Kuyas hay fever analogy

a good conversation

[Guitarista]

I agree with both of your points Molly and Mick.

Being aware of what i allow to go on between my ears is the trick for me.

The AA er's view is that this is a disease, and we have it for life. This conclusion has probably been reached through years of seeing people having 10, 20 years sober time, then having a drink and back to dangerous drinking levels soon enough, and returning to AA to talk about it. I don't mind calling myself an alcoholic at this point, because for me there is no shame attached to it, it just means i acknowledge i am currently a problem drinker, and as it happens always have been. It's just the language used at meetings to me, i attach no blame or shame to the word. The folks with 30 + yrs sobriety i see there look happy enough. They are there just about every day as it has become a fellowship of people helping people, and an important part of their lives. There may be a fear of relapse which keeps folk attending, but i see it more as a daily reminder that to many, this is a disease and we need to keep tabs on it and ourselves with regards to the 12 steps and what they teach/suggest. Possibly far too much focus on booze for a lot of folk, but for people newly sober, AA or NA are supportive, welcoming, and an immediate 7 day per week, morning noon and night face to face connection almost anywhere in the world. Amazing program really.

Is anyone baking today? :flip:

oops, new thread